Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.

[glass1]

Notice how the moderators are not putting it back on topic.  I am sure festool execs would rather y'all discuss motorcycle helmets than kapex motor failure.

 

[peter halle]

Sorry, had other non-forum stuff to do.

How about we get back on topic please.

Thanks.

Peter

 

[Jozsef Kozma]

No sorry needed Peter

 

[nickao]

Notice how the moderators are not putting it back on topic.  I am sure festool execs would rather y'all discuss motorcycle helmets than kapex motor failure.

Threads as long and big as this go off a bit, so what.

Please stop making it seem like it's some coordinated, nefarious effort by Festool. If it were this topic would not exist and every negative thing would be deleted, including yours.

My lord do we want a fun place to talk, or do we just want a data base with information? Humans dont talk without veering off subject  a bit. From my perspective we were 10 posts away from moderator intervention.

Lets keep it fun.

That being said I sent 3 Kapex back, but they NEVER had a motor issue. Actually, other than this forum I never heard about a motor issue  and I know at least 5 people that own them. I could never get my hands on a broken one here in IL.

 

[Vondawg]

Well said Dovetail65 !

 

[semenza]

Notice how the moderators are not putting it back on topic.  I am sure festool execs would rather y'all discuss motorcycle helmets than kapex motor failure.

Yes, that's it, you've nailed it!  Why just this morning the execs were messaging me to let this topic run wild! That way no one will notice the ten million topics on Kapex problems.  [blink]

    I have never been instructed by Festool to do anything different or particular with the Kapex problems topics.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There are a ton of topics that go OT that we don't bother trying to keep on track.  There are a number of reasons we might try putting a thread back on topic. Sometimes it is at the OP's request, very commonly it is because the topic is headed into a discussion that is not allowed on FOG or because members are starting to take shots at each other. Or a new member is trying to find out some piece of info without a lot of clutter. Sometimes it is because something interesting or that  hasn't been discussed to death  is going to get buried by the OT.

    Please note that if Festool wanted to bury the Kapex problem topics ........ none of them would have ever been allowed to survive more than about five minutes on FOG. To the contrary the discussion has been allowed to go on ad nauseam.

Seth
   

 

[glass1]

Srsemenza. I guess sarcasm is above your pay grade.

 

[Gregor]

I stumbled over this slashdot comment about a marketing approach to 'problematic' products (in the story about how microsoft had been blaming intel for its own bad surface drivers):

Customers who spend more on premium products tend to be more satisfied even when they are unreliable because they need to justify their own decision-making process.

Yep, this is a very well-known effect. I remember discussing this in a marketing class, and it's why you can find a lot of high-status consumer goods that are not very, umm, good.

Our instructor even quipped: if you that know your product is likely to have a high return rate, you're better off seriously overpricing it and spending extra attention on styling and marketing. People generally hate to admit to being taken and will keep it to themselves. They're more likely to act like the product is everything they expected it to be, sometimes even to the point of telling their friends how great it is. This tendency will lower your rate of returns and will reduce the amount of bad press and word-of-mouth you'll get.

Marketing is a sleazy business.

:

Made me think about several discussions here (problems with certain tools) and lead me to the question about the extend customers actually can be manipulated that way. Does this strategy really work relieably enough to actually be employed on a wider scale?

And if the answer to the last question is 'yes': how to defend oneself (and others) against such attacks against the brain?

 

[mikeyr]

    Please note that if Festool wanted to bury the Kapex problem topics ........ none of them would have ever been allowed to survive more than about five minutes on FOG. To the contrary the discussion has been allowed to go on ad nauseam.

Seth
 

  Come on, does anyone really believe that the higher ups at Festool even know this forum exists ?  They don't care, they got our money when we bought the tool and they are making money when we send it in for repair, its all good for them and they don't care this forum exists.  I do agree that if they wanted to bury the problems they would talk to FOG admins and the threads would be killed, but they don't even know there is a FOG or a problem.  That is how it works at big companies, by the time you get up the ladder you just know, company made this much or lost this much, the actual reason for profit is not important and if its a loss, its time for new managment, not a fix to the real problem.

 

[kevinculle]

I stumbled over this slashdot comment about a marketing approach to 'problematic' products (in the story about how microsoft had been blaming intel for its own bad surface drivers):

Customers who spend more on premium products tend to be more satisfied even when they are unreliable because they need to justify their own decision-making process.

Yep, this is a very well-known effect. I remember discussing this in a marketing class, and it's why you can find a lot of high-status consumer goods that are not very, umm, good.

Our instructor even quipped: if you that know your product is likely to have a high return rate, you're better off seriously overpricing it and spending extra attention on styling and marketing. People generally hate to admit to being taken and will keep it to themselves. They're more likely to act like the product is everything they expected it to be, sometimes even to the point of telling their friends how great it is. This tendency will lower your rate of returns and will reduce the amount of bad press and word-of-mouth you'll get.

Marketing is a sleazy business.

:

Made me think about several discussions here (problems with certain tools) and lead me to the question about the extend customers actually can be manipulated that way. Does this strategy really work relieably enough to actually be employed on a wider scale?

And if the answer to the last question is 'yes': how to defend oneself (and others) against such attacks against the brain?

The term of art is expectation bias and it is arguably the reason the scientific process was needed.  The psychology behind it is that our expectations (due to word of mouth, appearances, what we paid, shiny bling, whatever...) strongly color our experiences.  So if I pay a buttload for something and its pretty and shiny and other people tell me how great it is, I will ignore my actual experience and allow my expectations to bias it.  In its ultimate incantation it has people feeling good about overpaying for things because of the exclusivity of being able to overpay!  Caveat emptor!

 

[peter halle]

I can assure you that the higher ups of FESTOOL know about this forum.  CHRISTIAN who is the CSO or CEO (depending on who is writing what) was instrumental in the development and growth of this forum while he was based in the US.  He and I have had conversations regarding the forum within the last year and yes, he does regularly read posts.  So do others and they have been doing that for years.

Peter

    Please note that if Festool wanted to bury the Kapex problem topics ........ none of them would have ever been allowed to survive more than about five minutes on FOG. To the contrary the discussion has been allowed to go on ad nauseam.

Seth
 

  Come on, does anyone really believe that the higher ups at Festool even know this forum exists ?  They don't care, they got our money when we bought the tool and they are making money when we send it in for repair, its all good for them and they don't care this forum exists.  I do agree that if they wanted to bury the problems they would talk to FOG admins and the threads would be killed, but they don't even know there is a FOG or a problem.  That is how it works at big companies, by the time you get up the ladder you just know, company made this much or lost this much, the actual reason for profit is not important and if its a loss, its time for new managment, not a fix to the real problem.

 

[ChuckM]

Peter Halle link
"I can assure you that the higher ups of FESTOOL know about this forum.  CHRISTIAN who is the CSO or CEO (depending on who is writing what) was instrumental in the development and growth of this forum while he was based in the US.  He and I have had conversations regarding the forum within the last year and yes, he does regularly read posts.  So do others and they have been doing that for years.

Peter"

Other business leaders would die to have the kind of frank feedback -- even though sometimes less friendly or less courteous -- that this Forum has been collecting. I would be very surprised that Festool executives or designated managers would not be monitoring the comments expressed in this Forum. Companies -- banks, automakers, retailers (A&W, MacDonald's, etc.), fashions -- pay outside agencies to collect customer feedback on their behalf and the information they collect is not even as rich as that we see here in the Forum.

Other tool vendors or makers go to woodworking forums to scan and collect information relating to their companies (products, customer service, etc.) so they know what the endusers are saying about them. Woodworking magazines do the same. That is why they join the social media, too, to get in touch with customers in a way that the traditional channels (emails, telephone and snail mails) cannot replace.

In the old days (pre-Internet), the company I worked for had a dedicated dept. (Public Relations & Publicity) that monitored the press, columnists, customer complaints, service feedback and other community channels. Each morning, we received the "Digest" prepared by them covering news, service development and legislation relating to our industry so we all knew more about the outside world around us when we made our internal executive decisions. The people working to collect information were full-time head counts mostly with journalism, business or market survey and research backgrounds. We were just about to incorporate emails in our system in those days.

One more thing: I also had a Manager coordinating and handling complaints, regardless of the nature of them. This way, the complainant had only one party to deal with. The Manager redirected the complaints to the relevant dept or managers as he saw fit. Outsiders didn't know or didn't want to know how your internal system worked and so we put in place one person (at a managerial level) as their contact point.

 

[Arthur444]

Holy smokes my less then 2 year old Kapex died yesterday. I just joined this forum and I can't believe that with blades I've got over 2000$ in a piece of junk. I'm semi-retired, I sell stuff on Etsy. This saw went from the box to a bench and mostly cuts Cedar 9 months out of the year. It has less then a years worth of professional use. I've had to replace the brushes twice already and I noticed it sounded a little funny but I though it had to be my imagination because cognitive dissonance was not allowing my brain to wrap around the fact my 1500$ miter box was already taking a dump. Sure enough yesterday it stopped working, if you smack the top of the handle it will work for awhile but also I noticed yesterday before I stopped using it I made 16 cuts in repetition on 1/2"x 2 1/2" white pine and the motor housing was too hot to touch. I unplugged it and finished the job with another saw. This saw is literally self destructing.This is really shoddy. I have been stolen from. I was a professional woodworker for 30 yrs. and my Dewalt DW708 lasted 25 of those years without one problem.

 

[antss]

Arthur - sorry to hear about your trouble.

You should probably just send it back to Festool to have it repaired under warranty and then place it for sale, recouping most of your money. 

You can read about Makitas new saw , which by all early accounts is just about as good as kapex.  Yet, costs roughly 1/3 the price.

 

[Arthur444]

Yep, I have to find out if it's still under warranty and hopefully get it fixed and sell it. I bought the new Makita this morning for a little over 500$.

 

[semenza]

Yep, I have to find out if it's still under warranty and hopefully get it fixed and sell it. I bought the new Makita this morning for a little over 500$.

Three year warranty. When did you buy it?

Seth

 

[Arthur444]

Omg, I bought this 9/3/16. It's barely a year old. Wow, in my whole professional career I've never had a tool be more babied and self destruct this fast. I've got to get this fixed and I want it out of my shop as quickly as possible. You charge 1475$ for this. Shame.

 

[semenza]

Omg, I bought this 9/3/16. It's barely a year old. Wow, in my whole professional career I've never had a tool be more babied and self destruct this fast. I've got to get this fixed and I want it out of my shop as quickly as possible. You charge 1475$ for this. Shame.

So contact Festool  888-337-8600 .

Seth

 

[Holmz]

Holy smokes my less then 2 year old Kapex died yesterday...

The evidence of smoke is anything but holy.
But the following does have a religious fervour.

 

[Naildrivingman]

My 1 year and 11 month old Kapex burned up today.  I'm not going down the rant road as it serves no purpose. I'm merely posting so other FOGgers are aware of yet another failure.

BTW, my saw has always been plugged directly into a 20A or into my CT26 plugged directly into a 20A.  I have never used cords or 15A circuits.  I have never used a generator or invertor. I have cut no thicker than 2x soft wood material.  I have always used a sharp blade.  I have done everything as right as I possibly could.

On to Indiana.