Another Kapex Bites the dust. Again.

The Lucas Opus electrical ignition was the biggest weak spot and known to be problematic.  The Air conditioner however was well known to be one the best ever put into any car. Here in the south USA it would blow so cold that it could be 90% humidity and 90’F outside and you still be very cold in side the car.

It had a nifty Quadrophonic 8-track tape sound system. That was 4 channel for the automobile.  It had a really cool demo 8-track quadraphonic that had recorded a jet plane taking off in 4 channel sound.  It would roar from the rear speakers as the plane flew overhead and transfer to the front.

Jiggy Joiner said:
DashZero, That’s an interesting story, thank you for sharing.

It just might explain why sometimes over the years, when working at the homes of wealthy people, I have seen Rolls Royces in the garage with the battery on trickle charge. We’ve joked that even a Roller can have a flat battery, perhaps it was a characteristic of certain models?
 
DashZero said:
The Lucas Opus electrical ignition was the biggest weak spot and known to be problematic.

As they say in British motorcycle circles, "Joseph Lucas...Prince of Darkness."
 
Cheese said:
DashZero said:
The Lucas Opus electrical ignition was the biggest weak spot and known to be problematic.

As they say in British motorcycle circles, "Joseph Lucas...Prince of Darkness."

Smokekit2.jpg


You just need to recharge the system with new OEM Lucas smoke.
 
DeformedTree said:
Smokekit2.jpg


You just need to recharge the system with new OEM Lucas smoke.

Now that’s funny...

Hmmm, wonder if Festool will release their own version of Armature Smoke?
 
DeformedTree said:
Cheese said:
DashZero said:
The Lucas Opus electrical ignition was the biggest weak spot and known to be problematic.

As they say in British motorcycle circles, "Joseph Lucas...Prince of Darkness."

Smokekit2.jpg


You just need to recharge the system with new OEM Lucas smoke.

[big grin] [big grin] [big grin]
 
On a more positive note, this morning on a commercial job, I saw an old pal (carpenter) that I’ve not seen for many years, he was building a large cut roof.
He and his mate had a couple of circular saws and a couple of miter saws set up amongst other things. I couldn’t resist asking about his Kapex. This was a tired looking 120, 110 volt. He loves it to bits, and said despite it being long out of warranty and abused at times, it’s never missed a beat. It had one repair, nothing to do with the motor, a scaffolder dropped a small tube, which bounced up and smacked the casing on the Kapex, cracking and chipping it.

It was still usable, and he carried on using it until deciding when they were less busy, to get it fixed.

He went on to tell me, that the previous one he’d had, was just as durable and reliable, and was only replaced, as it was stolen.

So, as I’ve now developed an interview technique with any Kapex owners I bump into, it’s only fair to report their experiences.
 
Just finished a week with Greg Paolini. He has ~9 Kapex in his cabinet shop being used regularly. 1 out of the 9 had a motor related issue but it happened within the first month and was taken care of. His opinion is that this is all blown out of proportion and I tend to agree with him. You don't see people flocking to the Internet to report they're completely happy with their purchases.

 
DynaGlide said:
Just finished a week with Greg Paolini. He has ~9 Kapex in his cabinet shop being used regularly. 1 out of the 9 had a motor related issue but it happened within the first month and was taken care of. His opinion is that this is all blown out of proportion and I tend to agree with him. You don't see people flocking to the Internet to report they're completely happy with their purchases.

I didn't realise the failure rate was only one in nine, not really a problem then  [wink]
 
The story JJ relayed was more reassuring.

The 10% failure rate (1/9) was, of course, rather disappointing for a pricey machine like Kapex. Needless to say, that sample was too small to be statistically significant.

Unless and until the motor in my Kapex dies, I will treat it no differently from other Festool machines I own.
 
Doug S said:
I didn't realise the failure rate was only one in nine, not really a problem then  [wink]

ChuckM said:
The story JJ relayed was more reassuring.

The 10% failure rate (1/9) was, of course, rather disappointing for a pricey machine like Kapex. Needless to say, that sample was too small to be statistically significant.

Unless and until the motor in my Kapex dies, I will treat it no differently from other Festool machines I own.

That. .wasn't the point I was trying to make. Every product that is made up of components has a chance to fail. In a cabinet shop setting where the saws are actually used every day all day one saw in how many years of use showed an issue immediately and was taken care of. The rest, nothing.

There are similar threads all the time over on the Harley forums. Because Harley-Davidson motorcycles are so much more expensive than other brands people expect it to be perfect and never fail. Bearings get pre-loaded improperly, parts fall outside tolerances during manufacturing, stuff happens.

I don't have any skin in this. I don't own a Kapex. If I did I would use it just like any other tool and not worry about what may happen to it because of something I read on the Internet. I'm not discrediting that there may be an issue. If you think there is and are in the market, then don't buy the Kapex and get something else. As a consumer you have the choice to put your money where you choose. If you already own one and are under warranty, use it. Heck, abuse the thing as much as you can if you want. It's covered. Sell it off if it's keeping you up at night.

I realize this post may offend some who are deeply invested in this topic. That is not my intent. My hope is that you are able to make peace with this one way or another.
 
DynaGlide said:
You don't see people flocking to the Internet to report they're completely happy with their purchases.

Actually, they do. This forum is one example, which is mainly dedicated to people who love Festool, not hate it. Another is on sites like amazon or newegg where you can leave reviews of your purchases, you read many positive reviews. If the product is good, it gets the praise it deserves.

If the failure rate of the Kapex was just as high as any other tool, we would read a lot about failures from other tools too here, but we don't. The Kapex stands out by a mile.
 
I think with any product and any make, we tend to hear more about the ones that go wrong, than the ones that are bought and perform great as expected. Simply because if somebody were to go to a forum every time they bought something, and reported that it worked fine without fault and did exactly what it said on the tin or box, people would be wondering if the person was wired up properly! Lol!

I know from an experience of running a certain vehicle forum for many years, that these issues are very real, they’re not made up or rumours, they are characteristic issues with a certain product.
Sure you will get haters signing up on a forum, to simply stir the pot, or fan the flames of an issue but, the majority of the reported issues are real, often backed up with real proof.
I won’t mention the vehicles involved but, if somebody was buying that particular vehicle, I would instantly know what they should be looking for, and the chances are, there would be clear signs that the issues had been addressed.

We had a lot of dealing with the manufacturer and dealers of these vehicles. For a long time the issues were denied or not recognised, until more of the vehicles were sold, so the percentage of issues increased.
Sadly it was all coupled with media coverage, until eventually the issues were recognised and dealt with in an appropriate manner.

Cars, bikes, houses, tools, clothes and just about everything can and often does develop issues, it’s how the issues are dealt with that leaves an impression on customers right?

My thoughts are as follows, the Kapex carries a risk of developing a fault from when you first buy it, more so than other tools in the Festool range.
I have come to this conclusion, simply because i’ve read and heard from owners about a lot of these saws having the smoking/motor issue, unless they are all liars?

It’s not like we hear this on a fairly regular basis about other tools in the range, routers, sanders, circular saws, plunge saws, drills etc, the dust extractors apart from the flimsy tops are superb, the MFT type tables don’t have issues with legs falling off, or the tops breaking in half etc, etc. In fact most of the Festool range is heaped with praise, from pros to hobbyists right accross the board, and rightly so, they are superb tools.

The Kapex however, regardless of what the actual problem is, or the percentage that go west, does carry a risk of going wrong, and from the stats, much more so than any other tool in the line up.

It’s fine, and in reality, not a real worry apart from inconvenience and possible loss of income if a saw develops an issue, provided it’s still in warranty. If the saw is out of warranty, it’s a different story, and this for most of the owners that have experienced a Kapex acting up, is the real gripe.

So, some say Festool should extend the warranty, this then is like admitting there is a real risk with the saw. Also users of other tools would say why not extend the warranty accross the whole range, imagine the cost impact that would incur on the company?

I must admit that when I buy any new Festool tool or accessory, I have no worries or quibbles at all, apart from some of the prices, except the Kapex.
Whatever tool I buy nowadays, even more so for the workshop, would be Festool. The only exclusion I would have would be the Kapex. I don’t currently need a new miter saw but, if I did, it would almost certainly come from another manufacturer.

I would dearly love Festool to make an announcement, possibly with the new Kapex, and put anybody’s fears or worries to rest over the saw. Or at least reassure customers and potential customers, that there is no higher risk with buying a Kapex, than there is with any other tool in the range.
Is that too much to ask? Personally, I think not.
 
Jiggy Joiner said:
I would dearly love Festool to make an announcement, possibly with the new Kapex, and put anybody’s fears or worries to rest over the saw. Or at least reassure customers and potential customers, that there is no higher risk with buying a Kapex, than there is with any other tool in the range.
Is that too much to ask? Personally, I think not.

They did, some time ago, here on the forum. They said there wasn't a bigger failure rate for the Kapex than with any other tool. There was a slightly bigger failure rate, but not statistically significant.
 
After reading all of the posts in this thread over the past couple of months, I am wondering if I am seeing a theme developing that, a Kapex saw that has a problem with an armature burning up, and that armature is then replaced, is it more likely that that particular saw is going to have the problem again? I've read about folks who have had their saw for a long time with no problem and then I read about those who have had the same "smoke" problem more than once on the same saw. If that's the case, you would not want to buy a used saw that ever had the smoking problem, even if Festool service had "fixed" it; or, once you have the problem, you may want to be looking for a different brand replacement saw and not pay the out-of-warranty cost to have it fixed again.
Am I correct in this perception?
 
Alex said:
Jiggy Joiner said:
I would dearly love Festool to make an announcement, possibly with the new Kapex, and put anybody’s fears or worries to rest over the saw. Or at least reassure customers and potential customers, that there is no higher risk with buying a Kapex, than there is with any other tool in the range.
Is that too much to ask? Personally, I think not.

They did, some time ago, here on the forum. They said there wasn't a bigger failure rate for the Kapex than with any other tool. There was a slightly bigger failure rate, but not statistically significant.

That doesn’t tally with the amount of failures we hear about though Alex? As I mentioned in my earlier post, it’s like a certain car manufacturer saying a problem is non existent when it clearly was, and the manufacturer only conceded once media and disgruntled customer pressure forced their hand.

I think I’d have given Festool more credit if they’d said the problem was statistically consistant, which it seems to be?

So, a new improved Kapex with assurance that it carries little or no risk of developing the smoke/motor issues, that so many of the earlier models suffered with, would be very welcomed. Especially to the unfortunate owners that have had the issue at least once?

[member=39410]Mortiser[/member] It certainly seems that way.
 
Mortiser said:
After reading all of the posts in this thread over the past couple of months, I am wondering if I am seeing a theme developing that, a Kapex saw that has a problem with an armature burning up, and that armature is then replaced, is it more likely that that particular saw is going to have the problem again? I've read about folks who have had their saw for a long time with no problem and then I read about those who have had the same "smoke" problem more than once on the same saw. If that's the case, you would not want to buy a used saw that ever had the smoking problem, even if Festool service had "fixed" it; or, once you have the problem, you may want to be looking for a different brand replacement saw and not pay the out-of-warranty cost to have it fixed again.
Am I correct in this perception?

See reply #375 & #371...ticking time bomb.  [smile]
 
I recently purchased the dewalt power station but returned anyway I plugged my kapex into it but it wouldn’t run but I plugged my 10” hitachi miter saw and the ct 26 and it ran. Strange the kapex wouldn’t power up. Why?
 
alice said:
I recently purchased the dewalt power station but returned anyway I plugged my kapex into it but it wouldn’t run but I plugged my 10” hitachi miter saw and the ct 26 and it ran. Strange the kapex wouldn’t power up. Why?

They didn't like each other? [big grin]

My guess is that it is a whole bunch of electronics that just weren't happy with each other.  The more complicated tools get I suspect we will see more of this.

Peter
 
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