Another reason why I LOVE my wife!

[Fred West]

Don, you Ryan and a few others have truly hit the wife jackpot. Best wishes to all of you and if they have sisters with a similar nature please send them my way.  ;D 8) Fred

 

[The Woodentop]

Hi guys, I need some input. 

My wonderful wife said she wants me to spend some money on new tools.  I told her that what I really wanted was a little expensive, how much did she think I should spend?  Her figure was much higher than I planned to spend, soooo ;D ;D!

An opportunity like this doesn't present itself very often so I'd like to make the most of it.  I plan on building some built-in bookcases and new kitchen cabinets, a mantle for some friends and I'll be installing hardwood floors in my house (not all at once, of course.)  I'm not a pro but I love finish carpentry and have been doing a little work on the side of my chosen profession.  I'm thinking about this set up:

TS 55
CT 22
OF 1400
MFT/3
Domino Joiner

The Domino is the big question for me.  Do you think it would be better to swap that out for some "less glamorous" but very useful accessories like a longer guide rail, the mfs 700 or the LR 32-SYS and guide rail?  Looking for you combined experience and good advice-

Kind regards,
Ryan

I agree with you. All the products you mention are worthy.......but I question the domino. I have a domino and it works well enough (for light jobs). See how you get on and maybe buy it later? They are so hideously expensive for what they are I would recommend that you save your money if you find it's more of a whim than a real need.

To be fair, I do think the concept is pretty neat. I am sure that the Chinese alternatives will be around soon and you'll buy one at a small fraction of the price in due course. On the other hand if your money is burning a hole in your pocket and you're really keen and the wife is in agreement.......go for it. One thing though......what do you think she'll want in return!!??

 

[Tinker]

Last year, the Domino was at top of my list.  I had a lot of outgo buisiness wise and ended up getting the MFS 400 instead.  The Domino remained at top of my list.  Thru the winter, I found so many uses for that MFS 400 that before April 1, I will be sending for the MFS 700. Every time i find a new problem, that MFS seems ready for a solution. 

The Domino will still be at op of the wish list>>> that is if the KAPEX does not come into the picture before i can manage the Domino. 

Oh well, my old Dowel-It still does the job for me.  Maybe not as quick as the Domino might be.  Maybe not as many different conditions as Domino.  But in situations where dowels cannot work, I still make splines.  Time is not an unsolvable factor either.

But, the Domino will still be lurking as it awaits it's chance to jump into my tiny shop.

BTW:  Ryan, you are very fortunate.  For me, toys like Domino and Kapex mean toys at other end of house such as $2000 to $5000 sewing machines.  Oh well, if she is playing with her sewing machines and going to sewing classes, she is NOT bugging me about cleaning up the shop or tracking dust into the house.  (Ah Yes, I still love her, no matter what)
Tinker

 

[CharlesWilson]

Last year, the Domino was at top of my list.  I had a lot of outgo buisiness wise and ended up getting the MFS 400 instead.  The Domino remained at top of my list.  Thru the winter, I found so many uses for that MFS 400 that before April 1, I will be sending for the MFS 700. Every time i find a new problem, that MFS seems ready for a solution. 

Tinker,

You should now be able to purchase a pair of 700mm extrusions separately if you wish. You can do that if you don't need a second set of 400mm extrusions.

Charles

 

[butzla]

I am currently working a project with many lineal feet of corridor handrails.  They are of 2" x 6" Oak, & some lengths need to run up to 30'.  The sections are dry joined in the shop with two or three dominoes each.  In the field they are assembled on the wall as they are hung.  The joints are remaining perfectly flush on the walls.  Biscuits tend to flex in thes joints once the rails are tightened to the walls.  

Terp,  That's a good use for the domino, end grain to end grain.  I'll have to remember that.  I just used some pressure treated lumber for some border edging around my pool last fall.  I just butted them together as close as I could using stakes to hold each opposing board together.  I can see already, they have heaved and not even close to being flush.  I think if I milled some dominos out of PT stock that would have been the trick.  Was just wondering if the beech dominos would hold up outdoors, given they'd be mostly concealed. 

 

[Ned]

sToolman--

Festool USA shows "Domino sipo tenons 8x22x40 mm, qty. 130, for outdoor applications ", along with many other sizes, at Festool USA domino page.

HTH,
Ned

 

[butzla]

sToolman--

Festool USA shows "Domino sipo tenons 8x22x40 mm, qty. 130, for outdoor applications ", along with many other sizes, at Festool USA domino page.

HTH,
Ned

Sweet!  As a matter of fact,  I had these in my hand at my last woodcraft visit.  Didn't know why they were that mahogany color.  Thanks Ned!!

 

[John Langevin]

Ryan
A few suggestions:
Festool
     1. Opt for the OF1010 Router and use the money saved on needed accessories (vs. the OF1400) to get the Edge Routing Accessories (see 4. below) and   
         Dovetail Bits/ Guide Bushings
     2. The CT22E is a great choice, get the Handle, Hose Holder, and a Cleaning Set
     3. Get a long FS2700 rail for ripping sheet goods (and make a open frame cutting table)
     4. Forego the Domino (you already have a Biscuit Jointer) for the MFS 700 and (2) long 1000mm Rails (see Jerry Work and Brice Burrell's posts) to enable
         using Sliding Dovetail Joints which will simplify construction and ease assembly greatly
     5. Get a RO125 (more versatile) or ETS150/3 (finer finish) sander either one combined with Festool abrasives and the CT22E ROCK!
     6. LR32SYS for shelf pin holes/hinges (rail doubles for short crosscuts)
     7. Get some Clamping Elements and Quick Clamps for assembly and sawing
Non-Festool
     1. Consider a Fein Multi-Master (Dave in Indy has one for sale I see) for detail sanding and flooring work (removing old flooring and undercutting jambs etc.)
     2. Tune your Craftsman saw; align everything, twist link belt, Freud or Forrest blade; possibly a Wixey digital fence readout
     3. Likewise your Miter Saw- and consider making a stand with extension supports/stops

I recommend this based on the fact that this is what I have used for three years. This package will be extremely versatile (while still fitting your needs), extremely accurate and exceedingly pleasant to use while remaining easily portable.

Good Luck, beat the price increase and let us all know what you decide.
Regards, John

 

[Tinker]

sToolman, If those edgings (I am assuming it to be edging boards you are talking about t go around yur pool) are set on top of the ground with no type of base underneath, biscits, dowels, dominos or anything else are not going to hold them in place in Massachusetts. 

California (warmer areas) or Florida, maybe.  Anywhere you will have to contend with frost, they will not stay put without adequate foundation going below frost line.  The way I think you are doing it, I think stakes nailed to the sides of the treated edge lumber would be best.  You will have to reset every year or two.  Save your Domino for work that will be more, far more, permanent and satisfying.
Tinker

PS:  When I was in construction, i got into so many arguements with pool instalers about how to set up decking bases and edging such as I think you ar doing that I finall refused to even look at anything to do around pools unless they were properly speced.  They were just baaaad news al around.  If you need further advise, ask a reputable contractor or send me an E-mail direct. 

 

[ryan]

John,
thank you so much for some great ideas.  I'm trying to beat the deadline and I have a call into Bob Marino to see if there will be a package price for the TS55 and MFT/3.  He says there is no word yet but the price of the saw goes up something like $40.  If the package price is better than a $40 savings I'll wait :-[.  That'll be hard.

This is harder than I thought it would be.  I'm being forced to evaluate the way I work and I'm putting a lot of thought into this.  My list has changed 10 times already.  I guess it's a good problem to have though .

One more thing.  I was going to get the CT 22 but never considered the accessories you mentioned.  Please tell me why do you like them?

Sorry, two more things.  I decided to get a rotex 125. What do you recommend in the way of sanding accessories?  Finishing is an art all it's own and I don't think it's something I enjoy much.  Maybe if I got better results I would like it more.  Anyway, what to you think is a must have set up for  sanding?

Thanks all of you,
Ryan

 

[Ned]

I'm not John, but I think Ryan that you will enjoy sanding a great deal more with the Festool products.

The ETS 150/3 is a dream because of the low vibration.  You can use it all afternoon, probably all day, without punishing yourself.  Even the noise levels are good--and not just loudness, but the frequencies are less irritating than some other brands.

I have an old Rotex 150 and an ETS 150/3, and limited experience with the 125 sanders.  My impression from questions on FOG is that the 150s are somewhat easier to use than the smaller 125s, and so have less of a learning curve.

Unless you don't intend to work with sheet goods, and you don't intend to make any guided cuts longer than about 48 inches, you need either more or longer rails in your initial purchase.  A single long rail can't be beat for accuracy and ease of use (but only on a long cut).  Instead of the 1700, I recommend that you add a 1900 (75 inch) rail and two connectors to the 1400 (55 inch) that you'll get with the saw.

Ned

 

[Brice Burrell]

 Ned beat me, but heres my thoughts along the same lines..

Ryan, if most of your work is finish sanding Id stay away from the Rotex sanders, I feel they are not the best choice, I much prefer the ETS150. Don't get me wrong the RO sanders can be used for finish work, there is however a learning curve to getting the best results. I like my RO125 but only for heavy duty stock removal and the rare times that I've used it to polish. If you want one of the best finish sanders money can buy took a look at the EST150 models.  

 Also take a close look at the boom arm and handle.

 

[nickao]

Ryan, before I make any suggestions, a few questions;:
  1. Where will you do the bulk of the work; in a shop or on site?
  2. If in a shop can you describe the amount of space available etc.?
  3. What other existing tools do you have?
  4. What type of joinery do you plan to use in the bookcases and cabinets?
  5. Will you be 'making' your own flooring or simply installing commercial flooring?

P.S. I am blessed with a wife like yours and I wouldn't trade her for all the Festools on earth!

This is the most important thing in this thread!

I disagree with several of the recommendations for tools in this thread. Mainly because the recommendations are made on what the user does. Answer these questions first put by John.

For example, if you are even going to try to use the sander as an edge sander for the flooring or you are going to sand  lot of large flat surfaces or if you just hate sanding, get the 150, not the 125. I have both. Once I tried the 150 the 125 was not picked up again, I sold it. The RO 150 can do everything the RO 125 can, but the 125 can not do what the 150 can.

I only think this  because of what I make most and how I work because of what I make.  So read through John's questions then make your decision. We can all agree any of the Festools are top notch.

 

[nickao]

  Ned beat me, but heres my thoughts along the same lines..

Ryan, if most of your work is finish sanding Id stay away from the Rotex sanders, I feel they are not the best choice, I much prefer the ETS150. Don't get me wrong the RO sanders can be used for finish work, there is however a learning curve to getting the best results. I like my RO125 but only for heavy duty stock removal and the rare times that I've used it to polish. If you want one of the best finish sanders money can buy took a look at the EST150 models. 

  Also take a close look at the boom arm and handle.

Brice may be right, I do have an ETS 150, but again I  prefer the RO for large table top and edging of a hardwood floor. The items I make were taking 15 minutes to sand with the ETS 150 and 5 minutes with the RO 150. Sometime I use the last grits with the ETS.

nickao

 

[Dixon Peer]

This seems to have morphed into a discussion about sanders.  As regards the relative merits of the ETS125 and ETS150, they are really meant to serve somewhat different purposes.  I reach for the 125 when I'm sanding face frames and the 150 for larger, flat areas.  They're both superb machines, and I certainly wouldn't sell either one.

 

[butzla]

sToolman, If those edgings (I am assuming it to be edging boards you are talking about t go around yur pool) are set on top of the ground with no type of base underneath, biscits, dowels, dominos or anything else are not going to hold them in place in Massachusetts. 

California (warmer areas) or Florida, maybe.  Anywhere you will have to contend with frost, they will not stay put without adequate foundation going below frost line.  The way I think you are doing it, I think stakes nailed to the sides of the treated edge lumber would be best.  You will have to reset every year or two.  Save your Domino for work that will be more, far more, permanent and satisfying.
Tinker

PS:  When I was in construction, i got into so many arguements with pool instalers about how to set up decking bases and edging such as I think you ar doing that I finall refused to even look at anything to do around pools unless they were properly speced.  They were just baaaad news al around.  If you need further advise, ask a reputable contractor or send me an E-mail direct. 

That's exactly what I was talking about and exactly what I did....nail stakes into ground then screw into sides of wood.  What I'm saying is if they were dominoed....or even dowels or biscuits,  they would heave in unison  or monolithically.  The way they are now is staggered.  Looks kinda mickey moused.  Off topic, I know.

 

[butzla]

Ryan,  I'm new to the Festool line also.  I have a CT33 and TS75 that I purchased used and a new Rotex 150.  All told I've spent over $2300.  Basically, that's 2 tools and a dust extractor.  Point is,  plan on doubling the retail price of any sander that you are going to buy with the requisite abrasives and polishers.  And maybe even more than double the retail for saw and especially router, what with guides, MFS, hole cutting kit, etc.  I found (and you will soon, too) that with Festool,  accessories are everything.  They are needed to make "the system" complete.

 

[ryan]

  Ned beat me, but heres my thoughts along the same lines..

Ryan, if most of your work is finish sanding Id stay away from the Rotex sanders, I feel they are not the best choice, I much prefer the ETS150. Don't get me wrong the RO sanders can be used for finish work, there is however a learning curve to getting the best results. I like my RO125 but only for heavy duty stock removal and the rare times that I've used it to polish. If you want one of the best finish sanders money can buy took a look at the EST150 models. 

  Also take a close look at the boom arm and handle.

Brice and Ned, thanks!  I think I might go with the ETS 150/3.  The wisdom on this board is Priceless!  I've seen lots of people complement the boom arm and handle.  I must be missing something because I don't see the value.  Could someone tell me why they like it?  Also, I was considering joining two guides with the connectors like Ned suggested, but I'm a little afraid that it might be inaccurate over the total length.  Anyone have any feed back on joining rail, good or bad overall?
Many thanks,
Ryan

 

[John Langevin]

Ryan, do you feel the rapidly increasing gravitional pull of the Green and Black? Part of the joy of using Festool are the agonizing decisions over which model, what accessories to choose.
  I will agree with Brice (not having used the RO125 or the ETS150/3) that (from what I have learned here) the ETS150/3 is the lighter, smoother, quieter of the three. Since you sound like you will be working primarily with sheet goods that is probably your best bet. I only mentioned the RO150 because it can rough/fine sand, buff and polish; which is a lot of bang for the considerable amount of $ involved. In terms of accessories; it comes with a soft pad, you can add a hard pad for more aggressive use, foam pads for compounding and a felt pad(s) for buffing.
  I would like to hear your thoughts on the OF1010 (with edge routing accessories) vs. the OF1400 and the Domino; since this would reflect alot on your "methods of work". I was surprised not to get a bigger rise out of the crowd with that suggestion since the Domino is so popular.
  I would also like to hear your and other folks thoughts on the Fein MultiMaster suggestion, again I expected at least a murmur out of someone.

 

[colotimber]

Thanks John for the reminder, the Fein Mulitmaster is a great tool and especially for you Ryan.  I have owned one now for at least 10 years and I would be hard pressed to work without it.  First off it is made very well, and has so many uses that make jobs go so much faster.  Beware,  the consumables are also pricey, the blades are outrageous, but when nothing else will do and you need to get into that tight spot to cut that little piece, reach for the Multimaster.

Dan