Any chance of an impact driver?

[Lou Miller]

One of my most used tools is an impact driver. I buy screws that have self drilling tips on them and really don't even need to use my drills all that often. I'm about ready to buy another impact driver, and its a shame that Festool doesn't make one.

Christian, any chance at all that we might see one of these offered by Festool in the future?

 

[mysterium]

Lou,

I'll chime in on a Festool impact drive,  I would add one on those in a minute with a Centrotec Robertson bit  :

jim

 

[Lou Miller]

Lou,

I'll chime in on a Festool impact drive,  I would add one on those in a minute with a Centrotec Robertson bit  :

jim

You're not going down without a fight on that Robertson bit, huh?

 

[Dan Clark]

I'd like to see an 18-24V Lithium Ion drill/driver that allows you to use the current chuck kit!  I have the C12 and it's a great tool, but sometimes I wish for more capacity and a bit more "oomph".  Using LI would keep the weight down for a higher voltage drill and give you longer life too.

BTW, there's lots to like about the Festool drills, but the chuck kit is their best feature BY FAR.  (IMO, of course.)

Dan.

 

[Christian93117]

Lou,

Thanks for your question.

Sorry to disappoint you, but we will not see a Festool impact driver in the near future.

Impact Drivers have not caught on in most European countries, and our product development process is still strongly influenced by European needs. In order to justify the development of a product like an impact driver,
a process which costs easily a couple of million Dollars, we need to be able to sell it in other markets, too.
Festool is not big enough in the US market (yet!) to justify the development of a tool that would
be sold most likely just in the US.

The good news, Festool is growing fast in the US and we are getting a stronger influence on product
decisions. We are in the process of establishing a product management department in the US, which will
communicate needs of the US market to the R&D department in Germany. I am sure we will see more
"US-specific" tools in the future. And maybe one day we will see an Impact Driver. But since the development
of a tool at Festool takes normally several years, I am sure we won't see an impact driver in the next 2-3 years.

Regards,

Christian

 

[Christian93117]

Dan,

Sorry, I guess I have to disappoint you, too: No plans for 18 or 24 volt drills. The reason is pretty much the
same as in my previous post. The no. 1 drill in Europe is the 12 volt drill. Weight and size are among the
most important factors there. Voltage is not. Most people try to buy the lightest drill they can get away
with. Our main target groups all buy rather the 12 volt drill than for example the 15.6 volt TDK.

I know that the no. 1 drill category in the US is the 18 volt category. This category is covered by Protool,
a sister brand of Festool, which is not yet available in the US.

Regards,

Christian

P.S. At least some good news: I don't have an ETA yet, but Li-Ion batteries will come.

 

[Lou Miller]

Sorry to hear that Christian, but thanks for the reply none the less.

It does me wondering why it is that impact drivers haven't caught in Europe though? I personally think its one of the best tools I own. Driving long screws and bolts with what might be considered an under powered drill is no problem at all.

Oh well...

 

[Dan Clark]

Dan,

Sorry, I guess I have to disappoint you, too: No plans for 18 or 24 volt drills. The reason is pretty much the
same as in my previous post. The no. 1 drill in Europe is the 12 volt drill. Weight and size are among the
most important factors there. Voltage is not. Most people try to buy the lightest drill they can get away
with. Our main target groups all buy rather the 12 volt drill than for example the 15.6 volt TDK.

I know that the no. 1 drill category in the US is the 18 volt category. This category is covered by Protool,
a sister brand of Festool, which is not yet available in the US.

Regards,

Christian

P.S. At least some good news: I don't have an ETA yet, but Li-Ion batteries will come.

Christian,

First, thanks again.  Expectations are always tough to manage.    But knowing some bad news is MUCH better than not knowing anything.  I'll say "fooey" and grumble for a minute or two, and then it's over.  If I'm in the dark, I'll fume and fuss for months.    OK, I'm fine now.   

Second, I like the idea of LI batteries.    But I hope that they will be available for the current series of drills already sold.  Specifically, I have a C12.  I love it.  Great drill.  But I'd like to have LI batteries for it.  I hope the new LI batteries can be retrofitted.  (Yes, I assume and am OK with buying a new battery charger.)

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., Quick story...  About a year ago, I needed a miter saw.  I looked around and read reviews extensively.  I decided to buy a Dewalt DW718 12" SCMS.    Then the night before I was going to buy one at Lowes, I carefully reread the DW718 reviews again.  That's when I noticed that the good "Dewalt 12" SCMS reviews" were about its predecessor - the DW708.  The DW718 reviews were consistently bad.  So I bought a Bosch slider (great saw).  Since then, I've read almost nothing but bad posts about the DW718. 

Any comments from Dewalt?  Nope.  Any recognition that issues exist?  Nope.  Any on-line exposure to upper managment at Dewalt?  Nope.  Nothing but a long string of bad reviews and customers in the dark.

So now I wouldn't touch a Dewalt product to save my soul.  Does Dewalt management know or care?  And, do I care about them?  Dumb questions!

 

[Dave Ronyak]

It does me wondering why it is that impact drivers haven't caught in Europe though? I personally think its one of the best tools I own. Driving long screws and bolts with what might be considered an under powered drill is no problem at all.

Oh well...

Lou,

That an excellent question.  I hope that Christian or others from Festool will respond.  Maybe it is because they have had potent Hilti hammer drills and explosive charge driven fasteners for a long time for use in their masonry (reinforced concrete) construction methods that are prevalent.  (The above is merely a guess, but I know from several trips to Germany their home construction materials and methods are very different than ours.  I wish their dual action (side swing or top tilt with the same unit) windows and aluminum slatted roll up shutters were available in USA home construction.  They are superior to anything we have in terms of function,security and durability.  The next time I get to Munich I am going to try to visit the Deutches Museum and focus on their building construction exhibits.)

 

[jrtibbetts]

I wish their dual action (side swing or top tilt with the same unit) windows and aluminum slatted roll up shutters were available in USA home construction.  They are superior to anything we have in terms of function,security and durability.  The next time I get to Munich I am going to try to visit the Deutches Museum and focus on their building construction exhibits.)

I've never heard of this kind of window. Can you link to a pic or article about them? Surely somebody in the US makes or imports them; I'm shopping around for new windows this summer...

 

[MarkusS]

Perhaps I should start shipping German windows to the US  ;D

I can provide some pictures tomorrow as it's almost midnight over here and my wife will go crazy if I take the camera out now.

Can someone give me a link to such an "impact driver" and to those "self cutting screws"?

Regards
Markus

 

[Les]

Markus,

Try http://www.mcfeelys.com/subcat.asp?sid=404 for an example of self drilling screws. AFAIK all pocket hole screws are self drilling. Try http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/MK-6935-X/Makita-144V-6935FDWDE-Impact-Driver-w144v-6337DWDE-Driver-Drill-ML143-Fluorescent-Work-Light
for an example of a impact driver.

 

[Lou Miller]

Perhaps I should start shipping German windows to the US  ;D

I can provide some pictures tomorrow as it's almost midnight over here and my wife will go crazy if I take the camera out now.

Can someone give me a link to such an "impact driver" and to those "self cutting screws"?

Regards
Markus

Markus,

I use these screws most of the time. They're great for general purpose stuff, they're not exspenive, and they're made well. With the impact driver that Les linked to, I drive these screws right through almost any hardwood without a pilot hole. The deep threads make them work really well in MDF and other composite materials too. Just a great all around screw, IMO. Using them is a huge time savings over the course of a day.

 

[MarkusS]

Les and Lou, thank you for the links.

Those impact drivers are available in Germany (although not from Festool), Bosch, Makita and Hitachi offers them - just to name some manufacturers.

But those impact drivers are very rarely used here. None of my woodworker-friends (some of them earn their living from woodworling) has such a tool.

Why not?

Difficult to explain, I'll try to give a explanation but I might be completely wrong!

The standard "german" woodworking screw is a screw which is traded as a "SPAX". SPAX is a trademark of a company named ABC (Altenloh, Brinck & Co). ABC invented this type of screw sometimes back in the 1950s, SPAX is a combination of "Spanplattenschraube" (chipboardscrew) and the X stands for the shape of the slot in the head (Phillips). SPAX is here a synonym for this type of screw, there are many companies which produce this screws in any sizes but only the screws produced by ABC are labeled SPAX. The biggest SPAX that I've seen by myself was 12x600 mm - this looked like the mother of all screws.

The tip is pointed so you can stick it into wood (or any other soft material). The thread at the tip has serrations which cut through the wood fibers and make room for the following thread along the rest of the screw (reduces friction). In addition, the thread at the tip is slightly wider to make even more room for the following thread (reduces more friction). The screw is coated with a Teflon-like coating (reduces even more friction). The head is usually Pozidriv or Torx (which I prefer). I don't know that anyone over here produces or uses Robertson.

It's absolutely no problem to handle those screws - o.k.: depending on the dimensions - with a standard cordless drill (e.g. TDK). My "standard" screws are up to 6 mm in diameter and up to 80 mm in lenght and they work absolutely fine with my cordless drills without pre-drilling / pilot holes in my "standard" woods (beech, fir, oak (rarely used)).

I've some bigger screws and they work too with my cordless drills but they're a really heavy load for them.

I took some pics of some screws and the cordless drills I've in my shop, the last pic shows some screws I screwed in a piece of fir, the two screws at the left are those 8x100 (second left in the first pic), I used the 18V Metabo for them as this is my "strongest" cordless drill, the next two screws are 6x120 and 6x100 (left and third left in the first pic) which I did with the TDK (worked but the stronger Metabo is just right for such jobs) and the last one is 6x30 (first pic 3rd right) with the TDK.

BTW: The Hilti has the same power rating as the TDK (15V) - but Mr. Hilti is "slightly" bigger as you might notice - even bigger than the 18V Metabo.

Regards

 

[Christian A.]

Hi folks,

Markus and Dave already mentioned a number of reasons that might explain why impact drivers are less popular among woodworkers in (central) Europe than in the US.
Let me add some thoughts to this subject.
Basically, in Europe tools are noticeably more expensive than in the US. As far as I know, you can get a nice 14.4 V Makita cordless package (drill/driver, impact driver, flash light, two batteries, charger and case) for less than USD 200.
In Austria (where I live) Makita charges a tad more than EUR 400 for the same impact driver with two batteries, a charger and a case. In other words, the impact driver costs more than twice as much but the flash light and the drill/driver are not included.
As a consequence, I assume that people here are less tempted to try something new. If you had good experiences with a “classic” drill driver that handles a wide range of applications (drilling and driving) why would you want to try an expensive impact driver (that is useful only for driving screws)?!
Personally, I had a look at various impact drivers at a woodworking show last year. Ok, impact drivers are nice tools but, on the other hand, they are extremely noisy. As Markus already pointed out, a quality cordless drill driver in the 12 V – 15.6 V range will effortlessly sink the screws the “average” German cabinet maker/installer uses.
So why use something different?

Regards,

Christian Aufreiter, Austria, not affiliated with Festool.

 

[Christian93117]

Before we create the same confusion as we did on other forums, please note that there is a
Christian A. and a Christian O.

Christian A. is a very talented woodworker from Austria who posts a lot of interesting information in woodworking forums.
Christian O. has the pleasure to live in the US and work for Festool USA (he has two left hands but won't admit it )

Regards,

Christian O. (the one working for Festool)

P.S. Christian A., good to see you posting again!

 

[Christian A.]

Hello Christian,

thanks for your kind words.
Actually, I should have registered on this forum with my full name in order to avoid confusions. Now that I also realized that we/our names might cause misunderstandings I added a signature that should clarify who I am.
BTW, you might like to upload an avatar. It might help others to distinguish between “Christian O.” and “Christian A.”.

Greetings from Austria,

Christian

 

[stvrowe]

I wish their dual action (side swing or top tilt with the same unit) windows and aluminum slatted roll up shutters were available in USA home construction.  They are superior to anything we have in terms of function,security and durability.  The next time I get to Munich I am going to try to visit the Deutches Museum and focus on their building construction exhibits.)

I've never heard of this kind of window. Can you link to a pic or article about them? Surely somebody in the US makes or imports them; I'm shopping around for new windows this summer...

I agree with Dave, the best windows and shutters I have ever seen and puts everything available in the US to shame (including Anderson, Pella, etc).  I doubt they are marketed here though.
Steve

 

[Michael Kellough]

Hi folks,

" If you had good experiences with a “classic” drill driver that handles a wide range of applications (drilling and driving) why would you want to try an expensive impact driver (that is useful only for driving screws)?!"

Hi Christian,

Actually an impact driver is also a great way to drill pilot holes since it has very high RPMs. In NA we have a wide range of drill bits staked into the 1/4" hex style shank which quickly fits into the spring loaded collets on 1/4" cordless impact drivers. I bought the first impact driver about 15 years ago, a 9.6v Hitachi. I was working on set on commercials and driving 3" drywall screws into construction lumber would fatigue 9.6v drill/drivers fast. (Spax screws are still hard to find here and the drill point screws were not readilly available either) The impact driver had no problem sinking the screws but the noise of the impacts was too distracting to other people on the set so I often only used it for a quick pilot hole (with a slow feed to avoids impacts) which then allowed the drill/driver to easily sink the screw.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Perhaps I should start shipping German windows to the US  ;D

I can provide some pictures tomorrow as it's almost midnight over here and my wife will go crazy if I take the camera out now.

Can someone give me a link to such an "impact driver" and to those "self cutting screws"?

Regards
Markus

Markus,

I seriously think there could be a good market for them among builders/purchasers of higher quality homes, and commercial buildings.  My bet is that most Americans don't even know windows like the ones I described exist. The units I have seen and used in Germany have frames that are far more sturdy than any I have seen in USA, even from the so-called high end window manufacturers.  (For the pros who participate in this site, forgive me if I am wrong, for I certainly am not a pro builder or architect, and only know what I see in the homes and buildings I visit in USA.) I also think the powered slatted shutters would be perfect for homes in areas that have significant risk of hurricanes, if they are comparable in protection to nailing up a sheet of [pine or fir] plywood.

Send some Ritter Quadrants, too!!  A much better chocolate bar than the usual available in USA stores. Even the  Nestle and Cadbury brand chocolate products are downgraded or diluted for the USA market.

Dave R.