Any magic to MFT hole spacing?

[Straightlines]

Okay FOGsters, I have a simple question:  "Is there anything magical or special about the hole spacing on the MFT's?"  Are there reasons the spacing couldn't be increased or decreased?

-- TIA.

 

[Shane Holland]

Virtually everything Festool does is base-32mm. The hole spacing is 96mm (32mm x 3). This system approach just makes it easier for things to fit and work together. But I don't see why an arbitrary spacing wouldn't work for you. There are currently no accessories that I can think of that would require the standard spacing, except maybe the clamping elements.

Shane

 

[Mitchewd]

As far as I can tell, the spacing allows the clamps to reach any point on the MFT without gaps.  The spacing is wide enough to place most pieces in between rows of holes and easily find clamping points.  The rail also is a width that seems to fit nicely.  Changing spacing needs to take all accessories into account.

I don't know what the engineering critera were, but too many holes reduces rigidity and increases cost.  Too few makes clamping problematic.

 

[Straightlines]

Virtually everything Festool does is base-32mm. The hole spacing is 96mm (32mm x 3). This system approach just makes it easier for things to fit and work together. But I don't see why an arbitrary spacing wouldn't work for you. There are currently no accessories that I can think of that would require the standard spacing.

Shane

Yes, a systems approach has its advantages, and thanks for the tip on the spectrum of accessories, as that is part of my larger concern.

-- Bradley

 

[zapdafish]

Sorry, that information is not released to muggles.

 

[Straightlines]

As far as I can tell, the spacing allows the clamps to reach any point on the MFT without gaps.  The spacing is wide enough to place most pieces in between rows of holes and easily find clamping points.  The rail also is a width that seems to fit nicely.  Changing spacing needs to take all accessories into account.

I don't know what the engineering critera were, but too many holes reduces rigidity and increases cost.  Too few makes clamping problematic.

Mitch, that all makes good sense.  The reason I posted the Q is that as cool as the Festool accessories are, there are other manufacturers making equally great and innovative work-hold and guidance bench accessories in the 3/4" format, so the obvious answer is to create an MFT top that has both formats of holes.

-- Bradley

 

[Straightlines]

Sorry, that information is not released to muggles.

Okay Zapdafish, now your cover is blown:  Everyone now knows you are one of the rumored-to-exist Festool Homeland Security operatives!  [eek]

 

[mouppe]

I use 3" spacing on my dog holes which works well with the travel on the clamping elements.

I have a row of 20mm holes parallel to an offset row of 3/4" holes and the same on the far side of the workbench.

 

[Corwin]

Would wider spacing between holes prevent more items from falling through those holes?  [huh] [mad]

Remember when we all liked imbedded T-track? Thought it was great, and all. Wonder if it works as well today?  [tongue]

Years back I had posted about using a sacrificial cutting surface atop my MFTs and someone's response was that of great concern, as if covering the holes presented some sort of danger. Taking that warning, I ran downstairs to check to see if my MFTs were alright. Their color was good, and they didn't appear blue from lack of oxygen... What could have been the worry?  [scared] [blink] [big grin]

I love the MFT. And I don't mind the holes. They do offer a function that does work better in some aspects than other arrangements, in my opinion. But, they're not perfect. And I see no reason to believe that those hoes hold any magic. Yes, there're great in some ways, but magical, I think not.

 

[gnlman]

Hi. Yes there is magic in them there holes.....there are many people (members here and more)  that make aftermarket accessories that utilize the holes in the MFT.....I have purchased from most of these folks as they have supported the FOG with great ideas that both save time, and expand on the MFT in a way Festool has not....try a search on bench dogs, Qwas dogs, and you will find items that mirror some of Festools accessories as well as expand on them...think cutting angles for one thing....
I abandoned the angle attachment and the way Festool attaches the fence as I found (in my case) it to be less than accurate all the time without constant setup...my Festool fence is now attached with some special dogs that not only keep it super square all the time, but increase the cross cut of my MFT.......brilliant really...have a look at the aftermarket world of the MFT and you will discover just how much more valuable that little table is than you know now.
Greg.

 

[waho6o9]

The MFT3 has a 45 degree angle in the hole spacing and I find that super cool if

not magical.  My Walko4 doesn't have that, I assumed it did, Oops.

 

[JeromeM]

Shane pretty much nailed it.

The main benefit of the system is the grid. Other spacings work well, as do other diameter holes. Whichever spacing you use or hole sizes you will find that the more things you have that use the same spacings and holes the more useful all of the items become.

The posting under has some examples. I do update it when I make more items so the 2009 date is not really accurate.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/20mm-hole-on-a-96mm-grid-system-(mft-top-style)/msg78004/#msg78004

For non U.S. users 20mm is easier and cheaper to find accessories for than 3/4”. The reverse is probably true in the U.S.

 

[Holmz]

When I edit it down to the essence, then I see that agree on every level.

....they're not perfect. And I see no reason to believe that those hoes hold any magic. Yes, there're great in some ways, but magical, I think not.

 

[bigarm]

Hi. Yes there is magic in them there holes.....there are many people (members here and more)  that make aftermarket accessories that utilize the holes in the MFT.....I have purchased from most of these folks as they have supported the FOG with great ideas that both save time, and expand on the MFT in a way Festool has not....try a search on bench dogs, Qwas dogs, and you will find items that mirror some of Festools accessories as well as expand on them...think cutting angles for one thing....
I abandoned the angle attachment and the way Festool attaches the fence as I found (in my case) it to be less than accurate all the time without constant setup...my Festool fence is now attached with some special dogs that not only keep it super square all the time, but increase the cross cut of my MFT.......brilliant really...have a look at the aftermarket world of the MFT and you will discover just how much more valuable that little table is than you know now.
Greg.

Could you post some pictures?  I am very interested in how you have attached your fence, etc.

 

[Corwin]

Hi. Yes there is magic in them there holes.....there are many people (members here and more)  that make aftermarket accessories that utilize the holes in the MFT.....I have purchased from most of these folks as they have supported the FOG with great ideas that both save time, and expand on the MFT in a way Festool has not....try a search on bench dogs, Qwas dogs, and you will find items that mirror some of Festools accessories as well as expand on them...think cutting angles for one thing....
I abandoned the angle attachment and the way Festool attaches the fence as I found (in my case) it to be less than accurate all the time without constant setup...my Festool fence is now attached with some special dogs that not only keep it super square all the time, but increase the cross cut of my MFT.......brilliant really...have a look at the aftermarket world of the MFT and you will discover just how much more valuable that little table is than you know now.
Greg.

I thought we were discussing the spacing? Yes, the holes are layed out on a grid, and therefor are in rows and columns such that dogs place in the holes can be used to establish square. Steve Adams (Qwas) discovered this aspect to the holes back in the spring of '08. But the 96mm spacing simply has no magic whatsoever, as far as I can tell.

 

[Straightlines]

I use 3" spacing on my dog holes which works well with the travel on the clamping elements.

I have a row of 20mm holes parallel to an offset row of 3/4" holes and the same on the far side of the workbench.

Well you got out there 1st so I'm replying to your post, but Corwin's post is also spot on to my interests.

I've been contemplating a hybrid top much as you describe, except that I was thinking of the "parallel universes" of 20mm + 3/4" holes across the whole thing.  Your note about a 3" spacing is good, as I was thinking of using the 4" pegboard spacing to set the 2 grids (20mm holes at 8" O.C. & 3/4" holes at 8" O.C., grids offset by 4" O.C.).  Then just for grins and wiggles, I was considering some of Corwin's T-track.

I have oft wondered about that irritating phenomenon of how the holes "magically" suck small parts into their black-holeness....

 

[Corwin]

Virtually everything Festool does is base-32mm. The hole spacing is 96mm (32mm x 3). This system approach just makes it easier for things to fit and work together. But I don't see why an arbitrary spacing wouldn't work for you. There are currently no accessories that I can think of that would require the standard spacing, except maybe the clamping elements.

Shane

One aspect that does NOT share the 32mm spacing is the Guide Rail itself. It comes close, but falls short of meeting that mark. IF they could/would build saws that ALL were set alike (and had a reliable way to be readjusted to that exact spot) such that they all cut the Rail's splinter guard at the same location, AND size Guide Rails such that the width (from splinter guard's cutline to the 'far-side' of the rail) is a multiple of 32mm, THEN the hole spacing may amount to something more useful. And as I'm typing away, it occurs to me that one could even design a dog with a head diameter that makes up for any, uh, shortcomings [cool]. Heh, heh.

I don't really think any of this is needed. There are a multitude of various methods besides using QWAS or similar dogs to align your Guide Rails. And that method still does have its issues also. It works well enough, and I'm sure many are happy with that arrangement. But, I have other ways of doing things that work much better for me than working with the MFT's 96mm spacing. So, as Shane has indicated, the holes work great for the clamps Festool offers. The rows and columns of holes are handy to quickly clamp your workpiece in place while sanding, for example. But, to date, I don't see anything magical here.