Any use for a damaged MFT/3 rail?

[JohnDistai]

I just received my first Festool yesterday, the MFT/3 table.  There was a big hole in the box when it arrived, but everything looked okay.  When I started putting it together, there was a dent in the rail!  I just called Festool repair, and while they will send out a new rail, they didn't seem very overwhelming in regards to their service.  They'll send out the rail, but I probably won't get it until next week.  Today is only Tuesday, so I'm pretty pissed that a table that expensive was packaged so poorly that it could be easily damaged in shipment.  I've been waiting a week to get this stuff, and now I have to wait an additional week to use it, AND, I have to take apart the old rail, reinstall the stop, reinstall the rail, and recheck the square, which was probably pretty close from the factory.  This isn't that big of a deal, but for the price of this equipment I shouldn't have to deal with repairing and replacing parts right out of the box.

I don't know if reading all the service-related kudos on this forum has heightened my expectations, but I would at least expect that if the company can't package the table properly, they should at least have a faster turn-around time for parts.  I'm really pissed off about this.  Are my service expectations unrealistic? 

So I'm assuming that I'll have a spare, albeit damaged rail on my hands.  Are there any uses for it?

 

[jonny round boy]

Absolutely!

Cut off the damaged part, and you have another rail for use off the table. I have an 800 rail, and sometimes even that is too long. Even a 500 long rail has it's uses!!!

Edit: If you don't want it, feel free to send it to me!  [tongue]

 

[L2theP]

Aside from using the service number I would find out who your local rep is and give him a call, I'm sure he will be able to work something out for you a lot quicker, done this with a bad router, went into a local store per my rep's suggestion and he already had arranged a swap for me (thank you TOOLNUT) ready for pick up.
As far as a dented rail you can always cut off the bad section and use it as a rail for shorter projects, rejoin the good sections with the available rail connectors or make a jig out of it for a router or even chop saw wing extensions on which you can use the mft stop to make repetative cuts
As far as packaging goes festool is trying to be enviromentaly friendly with respect to its packaging and if the shipper/handler is careless with your package there is not much any company can do other then start shipping in wooden crates
Enjoy your festools and don't be afraid to use all the resources that festool sets up for us customers.

 

[Wood_Junkie]

Blame the company that shipped the package, not the manufacturer.

Quote:  "...was packaged so poorly that it could be easily damaged in shipment."  That is a hefty extruded aluminum rail, not a porcelain teapot.  Whatever caused that dent was probably NOT in the category of 'easily' damaged.  If UPS/Fedex/DHL or whomever drives a forklift into it, that's not really a packaging / manufacturing problem that should be laid at the feet of Festool.

Anyway, remember that you have a 30-day guarantee, from any *Festool dealer* you bought it from.  You do not have to wait.  Simply arrange to ship it back and get a refund due to the damage, and purchase another, even if from another dealer.  It's that simple.  Yes it takes time, but that's the price you pay for not purchasing it locally...

You called Festool.  They are sending you a pricey item, without requiring you return the damaged one or spend a cent.  This is the ultimate in customer service, IMHO.

I'd say file a claim with the shipper, but since it isn't costing you anything out of pocket, I don't know what would be claiming, besides inconvenience (which they don't guarantee against...)

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Oh, I was about to write a post, but Wood_Junkie beat me to it and said about everything I was going to say.

I see posts like this all the time, such as someone being angry with Grizzly for a dent in their new tablesaw, when it was actually the fault of the shipper. Most people have no idea just how abusive shippers can be at times. Some of the guide rails shipped back to the warehouse look like pretzels, regardless how they are packaged.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I remember Timmy C (Festool Junkie) talking about the time and effort he puts into making sure a MFT is packed for shipping. He's one of the few dealers that goes way out of the way to make sure your MFT gets to you in one piece.

 

[JohnDistai]

I understand what you are saying, WoodJunkie.  I didn't think about a forklift hitting it.  I think it may have been dropped in transit somewhere along the line.  Unfortunately, the rails don't have any supports in the box that would prevent damage.  Sure, there is styrofoam in the corners, but that doesn't protect against a drop against a corner surface along the rail edges.

I am going to speak with the dealer to see what they do.  And yes, there is something to be said for dealing with a smaller or local dealer.  I am assuming that to this dealer I am some anonymous internet purchaser who is just a number, so this dealer probably won't be getting any more of my business.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

All I know is this, if I had to pick up and unload either the mft/3 box or the kapex box, I would screw one up.  They are big and heavy.  I thought mine was packaged well.

My uncle retired from ups and he always joked he liked driving with the back door open so packages would fall out.  He made fewer stops and didn't have to pick ups so much stuff!! [big grin]

They are big and heavy and I also assure you that after seeing how neatly all their tools are packed on pallets from Germany, Festool didn't break it.

 

[JohnDistai]

I know they didn't break it.  I am saying that they should engineer the packaging so that it doesn't get damaged that way.  But, there was probably some sort of risk calculation, comparing packaging costs with repair costs....

 

[tbellemare]

It's pretty hard to create a package carrier-proof, that already weighs close to 80 pounds and is incredibly unwieldy. The same is true of guide rails.

About the only way to nearly prevent damage is to make a very tough crate. Even then, some of the damage that has been inflicted on my tables would still occur.

I had one delivered that had a hole so small in the box it was hard to find. Whatever went through that hole, bent the aluminum extrusion on the side of the table that is called a table profile. I think that's the same piece that got bent on John's.

UPS claimed they weren't responsible but they accepted full pay for insurance when I shipped it. I don't see how anyone doing business honestly can say that it was the fault of packaging when they accept the package and insure it and THEN puncture the packaging with something obviously pointed and with such force that they bent that extrusion.

Tom

 

[JohnDistai]

Tom and Bob,

So how does shipping with your businesses work?  If you ship something via UPS and insure it and it is damaged, does UPS pay for the item, pay to repair the item, or refund the shipping?  If the customer needs to return ship something that was damaged during shipment, who picks up the tab for the return shipping?

Thanks!

 

[peter halle]

John,

I am not speaking for Tom of Bob here,

If the shipping company accepts the package and ships it as being undamaged and then it is damaged upon delivery, the receiver is the one who has / should have to deal with the claim of shipping damage and deal with the shipper.

The MFT/3 is a truck ship item I believe.  When I ordered mine, I discussed my situation with the dealer.  The dealer shipped UPS, but he added a double layer of cardboard around the package to make sure it wasn't damaged.  That cost came out of his profit.

I had to deal with shipping for many years.  I've Fedexed rolls or carpet and pallets of floor tile.  The dealer or shipper always gets the blame - but it is rarely their fault.

 

[greg mann]

We ship several full truck loads of heavy truck components every day. A few years back, one of my customers called with complaints about damaged parts. These were parts we had been shipping almost every day for over a year in exactly the same manner without incident. Of course it was all our fault, until it was determined the load had been involved in a rollover. The carrier had done everything they could to hide that fact but the trailer numbers didn't match up. Since it wasn't an LTL there was no good reason for the trailer to have been switched.

 

[tbellemare]

So how does shipping with your businesses work?  If you ship something via UPS and insure it and it is damaged, does UPS pay for the item, pay to repair the item, or refund the shipping?

Theoretically, the carrier (UPS) should pay for the problems they cause. They are like big insurance companies - they have a team of experts and lawyers to avoid paying any claim. So far, every time I've had a problem, I ate all costs, including repairs. With MFT's, it has always resulted in me buying a new profile and drop-shipping it to the customer ASAP. Luckily, my customers have always been happy to swap it out and move on. I try to avoid UPS any more and use FedEx. They are probably the same but they haven't yet had a chance to stick it to me.

On another occasion, UPS charged me $56 to deliver a GPS map (a micro disc) overnight with Saturday morning delivery from NJ to an executive in Connecticut. The customer was willing to pay for the service because he was travelling to Germany on Saturday afternoon. It arrived 4 days later, on Tuesday afternoon. UPS said it was due to weather and they weren't responsible for the weather. It was appropriately refused by my customer. So, I paid UPS $56 to fail to deliver something about the size of a thumbnail and lose a sale for me.

Tom

 

[James Watriss]

There are several things to keep in mind here.

-I would have called the dealer FIRST. They processed the order, and from what I remember, would have dealt with the shipping carrier. Shipment could have originated form their location, or it could have been drop-shipped. (I've had both)

-Festool does care, but do try to understand that at this point, you're dealing with a hierarchy. It used to be that everything was direct order only, but it's been years since that was the case. Festool is now the manufacturer, but the dealers are generally the front line of customer service. They're the ones who should trying to get your repeat business. You don't call Coca-Cola i the pizza guy forgot to bring the coke you ordered. The dealer should have your order on file, and be immediately reactive to the situation.

And, because front-line customer service is their job, followed closely by the rep, you'll get more and better attention from them. They have a sense of urgency that Festool doesn't have to have, because Festool is not in the customer service business... they're in the tool making business. The dealers are in the customer service business. A dealer would have paid the extra $$ to make sure the new part gets to you faster. In the meantime, you have the option of filing and hammering out the damaged part to get it to work for the week. So, while I feel your pain, I can honestly say that, short of a torn rail, there's a lot that can be made to work for a week if you really want to use the table right away.

-I hear your point about packaging, but it's like any other idiot proofing that exists... build an idiot proof setup, and someone will build a better idiot. But I've also had some reprehensible experiences with shippers, and I've come to understand that if I've ordered something large, heavy, or expensive, I have to be patient, because the odds are 50/50 that I'll have to refuse to sign for something that's been damaged. I have a Sjoberg Elite bench that cost me $2500. First one that came in, the store should have refused to sign for it, it was beat to sh!t, and the vise screws were severely damaged. For $2500, it better come with a fresh coat of wax, not look like it was dragged down the street by the UPS guy's stunt double. Second one could have been shinier, but it was good enough, and the store compensated me adequately for the few scratches that it had.

-I'm not trying to minimize your irritation or say you shouldn't be irritated. You should. But the biggest problem you're having right now (aside from damaged equipment) is that you're unfamiliar with the distribution network and how it works. Bad things happen... I got to the lumberyard 5 minutes too late tonight, and got rear ended by a big Ford Motor coach on the way back tonight. No kidding. So, I get frustration... especially tonight. But place the blame and responsibility where it belongs... The shipper, then the dealer, then the local Fes Rep, then the Manufacturer. It's hard to do that when you're mad. But it helps the mad part get worked out faster, and also goes a long way towards renewing your hope and faith in what is still a good product.

 

[Bob Marino]

Tom and Bob,

So how does shipping with your businesses work?  If you ship something via UPS and insure it and it is damaged, does UPS pay for the item, pay to repair the item, or refund the shipping?  If the customer needs to return ship something that was damaged during shipment, who picks up the tab for the return shipping?

Thanks!

When the Kapex first came out, I had a custom box made up, with corner brackets, bubble wrap and "FRAGILE" stamped all over the box. As I and my UPS driver were loading them up on the truck, I said to him, "John, do the "FRAGILE" stickers ensure any greater care by UPS or not"?. He said, 'Bob, the only thing I can assure you is that you won't get any better care than how you and I are handling them right now"! Not terribly comforting!

I would second what Tom mentioned about the MFT being a tough item to ship - even with proper and bettter packaging.  They are heavy and bulky. The guide rails are troublesome too.

For my MFT's, we even went so far as to buy 4x8 sheets of hardboard, cut them down, lined the 4 sides with them, added bubble wrap and another flattened heavy cardboard box on top/inside the box and still, on occasion, there is damage. I am now shipping in a very heavy outer box.  Few things are more dissapointing to the customer I guess than spending good coin and finding something damaged in transport.

I think that I can speak for Tom and Tim that all this extra packaging is time consuming and expensive (this to an already oversize and expensive item to ship) but is well worth it if it greatly lessens the chance/frequency of damage. 

  If an item is damaged, UPS will generally pay (sometimes they dispute the claim) for the price of the item that needs to be replaced. For instance, if the MFT rail gets damaged, they will pay to replace the rail; shipping is paid by the dealer. If I lose the dispute, I pay for replacement. I pay shipping for damaged items that the customer needs to return.

Bob

 

[Bob Marino]

I just received my first Festool yesterday, the MFT/3 table.  There was a big hole in the box when it arrived, but everything looked okay.  When I started putting it together, there was a dent in the rail!  I just called Festool repair, and while they will send out a new rail, they didn't seem very overwhelming in regards to their service.  They'll send out the rail, but I probably won't get it until next week.  Today is only Tuesday, so I'm pretty pissed that a table that expensive was packaged so poorly that it could be easily damaged in shipment.  I've been waiting a week to get this stuff, and now I have to wait an additional week to use it, AND, I have to take apart the old rail, reinstall the stop, reinstall the rail, and recheck the square, which was probably pretty close from the factory.  This isn't that big of a deal, but for the price of this equipment I shouldn't have to deal with repairing and replacing parts right out of the box.

I don't know if reading all the service-related kudos on this forum has heightened my expectations, but I would at least expect that if the company can't package the table properly, they should at least have a faster turn-around time for parts.  I'm really pissed off about this.  Are my service expectations unrealistic?   

So I'm assuming that I'll have a spare, albeit damaged rail on my hands.  Are there any uses for it?

John,

Just to clarify, you are buying that table from your dealer, not from Festool; the dealer "owns" that table - even if Festool shipped the table for the dealer, so the person to contact would be your dealer, not  Festool. The dealer is responsible for contacting Festool and/or getting you a replacement.   I know it's a bummer to get something not in perfect shape, but if it's the 42" guide rail that's damaged, you can cut it at the point where it was damaged and stil have a prefectly functioning rail or you can use the 55" that came with the saw (in a pinch) or it it's the side profile that got damaged (which I think happened here) you can still use the table. Swapping out the profile doesn't take too long thankfully. Once done you are all set.

Bob

 

[Michael Kellough]

Any use?

Yes.

If the guide rail is damaged cut out the bad spot and you've got
two shorty guide rails. They won't be especially useful with the MFT
itself but they are useful for short cuts when working on stuff too big for the MFT.

A damaged MFT rail may still just fine structurally but you do deserve one
that is cosmetically sound too. If that is what is damaged I'd be happy to buy it
from you if the price is right. You really only need a foot or so of MFT extrusion
(to hold each guide rail fixture) to make a homemade MFT styled cutting table.

 

[tbellemare]

If the guide rail is damaged cut out the bad spot and you've got
two shorty guide rails.

The only caveat I'd add to that is check carefully for straightness. I've had guide rails damaged different ways on the way to me. Somtimes a bent edge, sometimes the whole rail is kinked. If it is damaged from an end load, it can have damage that isn't so obvious.

Using a really taught string or some other known straight reference, you should be able to determine how damaged it is.

I think the OP, John, was talking about the table profile though.

Tom

Tom

 

[JohnDistai]

I was talking about the table profile that mounts to the side of the table.