Any work arounds for the LR 32-SYS making the rale longer???

[Programmergeek]

Ok I am a bit upset I screwed up a big piece of wood with the LR 32-sys.  I was making holes up a 7' piece and because my guide was the 42" guide I could only clamp one end, it wouldn't reach end to end and I do not have a clamp deep enough to get to the other end on the wood, I don't even think one is made I tried to even make something for my MFT but it would only crush the aluminum rail.  Well the unclamped side moved despite my best efforts to watch it and be genital.  I was going to do the bottom half and then the top half.  So I went to my dealer the long rail is $$$ but probably would of got it but it was out of stock anyhow, I already have so many rails also why don't they just put these holes in all the rails.  So I wanted to get another short rail to save cash and move forward on this project I need it done this week and found out you can't clamp them together.

The hole on the end is not 1/2 the distance, it is less so if you clamp 2 together the spacing would be screwed up.  I could try to leave a gap but Then you have the issue of play or having a curve if they are not both 90 deg.  Why would festool do this other than to only sell the long rail.  What if you are doing a project longer than the long rail is this system useless?  Has anyone found a workaround for this?  The only other thing I can think of is making a jig to set the guide in holes that are already drilled but the holes on the guide are oval which complicates things.   For the price of this I can not believe I am having so much trouble drilling a couple holes. 

Also I just noticed the long guide is less than 8' long.  So are you totally screwed if you need longer than that.  Why would they make a longer guide to fit standard lengths of wood you also loose a couple of inches if you use there spacer on the end.

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi programmergeek,

An easy and accurate way to gang the lr-32 system rails is to set up and make the first holes with the guide rail alignment stop tight to the reference end and the sides parallel with edges of the work piece.  Once all those are drilled, remove the alignment stop and slide the guide rail up to where the last three holes on the guide rail align with the last three holes you drilled.  Place 5mm shelf pins through the guide rail holes and into your drilled holes.  Set the guide rail parallel with the edges of the work piece again, clamp and drill away.  You can go as long as you wish.  The three hole overlap will do a good job keeping the holes synchronized over even very long runs.  Be sure to always start from the same reference end with the alignment stop set to the same setting so the run of holes will begin at the same distance from that reference end.  Hope this helps.

Jerry

Ok I am a bit upset I screwed up a big piece of wood with the LR 32-sys.  I was making holes up a 7' piece and because my guide was the 42" guide I could only clamp one end, it wouldn't reach end to end and I do not have a clamp deep enough to get to the other end on the wood, I don't even think one is made I tried to even make something for my MFT but it would only crush the aluminum rail.  Well the unclamped side moved despite my best efforts to watch it and be genital.  I was going to do the bottom half and then the top half.  So I went to my dealer the long rail is $$$ but probably would of got it but it was out of stock anyhow, I already have so many rails also why don't they just put these holes in all the rails.  So I wanted to get another short rail to save cash and move forward on this project I need it done this week and found out you can't clamp them together.

The hole on the end is not 1/2 the distance, it is less so if you clamp 2 together the spacing would be screwed up.  I could try to leave a gap but Then you have the issue of play or having a curve if they are not both 90 deg.  Why would festool do this other than to only sell the long rail.  What if you are doing a project longer than the long rail is this system useless?  Has anyone found a workaround for this?  The only other thing I can think of is making a jig to set the guide in holes that are already drilled but the holes on the guide are oval which complicates things.   For the price of this I can not believe I am having so much trouble drilling a couple holes. 

Also I just noticed the long guide is less than 8' long.  So are you totally screwed if you need longer than that.  Why would they make a longer guide to fit standard lengths of wood you also loose a couple of inches if you use there spacer on the end.

 

[Brice Burrell]

  PG, I feel your pain! What I've found to work is.
Set up and index the work piece and clamp the one side that you can. Leave the sidestop on the unclamped side all the way on the end of the rail. This will give a little more sopport to hold the rail in place. Carefully drill the holes, I start from the unclamped side. For some extra insurance, I use one hand to help hold down the rail. When I get to the end of the rail, I leave the router parked right there. Then, unclamp and remover the end stop. Slide the whole setup down (the sidestop and router still on the rail) until the bit is over the first hole drilled. With the router turned off, plunge the bit into the hole. This will align one end and the sidestop will the other. I'll then put the other sidestop on to help hold the rail. It will likely get in the way, so you'll need to hopscotch it around. Again carefully drill, using one hand to hold the rail down. I found this does work because the rail grips pretty well all on it's own.
Good luck.

 

[Programmergeek]

Jerry I think your thinking of a normal set up on the festool the holes do not get drilled through the guide so placing pins in holes you already drilled is useless.  I wish it worked that way like my cheapo guides that works.  I was hoping the festool would save me time and I could do a whole board in one shot.

Brice that is what I wound up doing but the guide still walked on me and screwed up 2 pieces.  I wouldn't mind if this was a $100 tool but for the price it is pretty useless and not really thought through, I am having other issues as well, like the measuring bars not being long enough since I want a set in the middle of a 17? wide board.  It looks like the key to this system is you need the guide rail a fair bit longer than what you are working on to make room for the start stops and the clamps, even if you just drill the middle, the guide needs to extend the length of the work piece for the clamp.  The stupid thing is the longest guide rail they make is about 7'.  This whole system is not great if you do anything out of the ordinary or make large cabinets it is fine for basic cookie cutter things that are small. 

 

[mastercabman]

Jerry I think your thinking of a normal set up on the festool the holes do not get drilled through the guide so placing pins in holes you already drilled is useless.  I wish it worked that way like my cheapo guides that works.  I was hoping the festool would save me time and I could do a whole board in one shot.

Brice that is what I wound up doing but the guide still walked on me and screwed up 2 pieces.  I wouldn't mind if this was a $100 tool but for the price it is pretty useless and not really thought through, I am having other issues as well, like the measuring bars not being long enough since I want a set in the middle of a 17? wide board.  It looks like the key to this system is you need the guide rail a fair bit longer than what you are working on to make room for the start stops and the clamps, even if you just drill the middle, the guide needs to extend the length of the work piece for the clamp.  The stupid thing is the longest guide rail they make is about 7'.  This whole system is not great if you do anything out of the ordinary or make large cabinets it is fine for basic cookie cutter things that are small.   

i have the long rail(with holes)and i think it measures 95"?but do you really need more than that?how tall of a cabinet are you planning to build?i never build a cab over 8' in 1 piece.if i have to go taller,i put a divider.make 1 cabinet with a bottom part and top part.also i never start holes at the very bottom of the cab.you have to consider toe kick or bottom rail.i build book cases,cabinets,built ins,and i never have problem like you describe.if you don't have the long fence,and you build cabs that tall,i would get it.    but you are right about one thing.why can't festool make all their fence with holes?that would be nice.

 

[cdconey]

I found this out the hard way joining the long rail and short rail a few years ago.  Use the end stops from the LR-32 sys in each end of each guide rail you want to join, set to 16mm before you butt the ends together.  Use the factory edge of plywood to line up both guide rails to make sure they are straight, and use two rail connectors.  Unfortunately I didn't notice the problem until after assembly and finishing and ended up placing 6mm deep dados in the bottom of the shelves on opposing corners for the shelves to sit level on the entertainment center that I built. 

 

[mysterium]

Bummer about the screwing up the piece...

I have three LR-32 42" rails.  I simply join the rails with connectors and slide the rails apart so the 32mm spacing is maintained & alien with a straight edge.  If you want to speed this process you can make a jig with a scrap piece drilled with series of 32mm holes and using (4) 5mm pins (2 for each rail) to set the spacing between the two rails.

jim

 

[Brice Burrell]

Great idea Jim.

 

[Programmergeek]

Jim does that work well?  I asked around and was told you can not do that.  I didn't see why not other than you have to be careful where you joined them not to drill a hole.  But the clamps hold ok?

 

[cdconey]

Why build a jig when the parts you need are in the LR-32 SYS?  The rails are approximately 3mm on each end too short  to butt together, so you end up with your holes off 6mm or approx 1/4" when the rails are butted together.

 

[Ned]

...you have to be careful where you joined them not to drill a hole.

PG, after I read this a couple of times I decided you were talking about the locating pin going into the gap between the two rails, and then you accidentally drill a hole where it shouldn't be.  Am I right?

That suggested to me an elegant (but more expensive, naturally) solution:  How about a 6mm slice of rail extrusion, with two rail joiners permanently attached to it forming what would look like a T with a crossbar?  You'd have to drill & tap holes to assemble this.  This spacer could be quickly installed between the two rails with holes, giving the spacing instantly and perhaps resulting in a more rigid assembly.

I think I've finally found a use for scrap rail. 

Ned

 

[Ned]

Why build a jig when the parts you need are in the LR-32 SYS?  The rails are approximately 3mm on each end too short  to butt together, so you end up with your holes off 6mm or approx 1/4" when the rails are butted together.

CD, could you expand on this a little?  I've read  it repeatedly and still don't get it.

Ned

 

[ririmarqueverte]

Not a bad idea Ned, i'll put yr idea at work to join my 2 1080 rails.

riri

 

[Ned]

Not a bad idea Ned, i'll put yr idea at work to join my 2 1080 rails.

riri

I'd like to hear how it goes.

WARNING:  I was just guessing about that 6mm dimension.  I did not go into the shop and verify it.  Take the concept, but do your own measuring.

Ned

 

[cdconey]

When you join two LR system rails together, the hole pattern from the two rails shrinks approximately 6 mm on the spacing where the two rails meet.

To resolve this, use the linear end stops that are used for positioning the rails at either 16mm or 32mm setting ( the ones that you put on the bottom of the guide rail ) and should protrude slightly at the end of the rail. Do this on the two ends of the guide rails you wish to join.  When you butt the rails together, then using the factory edge of a sheet of plywood, align the guide rail to ensure it is straight.  Tighten the two connecting bars.  The end stops will give you 32mm spacing between the two end holes on the guide rails.  You should have a gap between the guide rails of approximately 5-6mm.
Remove the linear stops and place where you need them & bore away.  If this doesn't help, I can try to post some pictures. 

 

[Dave Rudy]

If this doesn't help, I can try to post some pictures. 

Would you mind?  I am not sure I have the concept.

Dave

 

[Dave Rudy]

Jerry I think your thinking of a normal set up on the festool the holes do not get drilled through the guide so placing pins in holes you already drilled is useless.  I wish it worked that way like my cheapo guides that works. 

PG,

I understand what you're saying, that the jig holes are not the same as the drilled (routed) sehlf pin holes.  But I think Jerry is just using the shelf pins as index pins to align the jig, so that you can move the guide rail and keep the exact same spacing.  I do think Jerry's solution is simple and effective.

 

[Programmergeek]

...you have to be careful where you joined them not to drill a hole.

PG, after I read this a couple of times I decided you were talking about the locating pin going into the gap between the two rails, and then you accidentally drill a hole where it shouldn't be.  Am I right?

Yes this is correct.

That suggested to me an elegant (but more expensive, naturally) solution:  How about a 6mm slice of rail extrusion, with two rail joiners permanently attached to it forming what would look like a T with a crossbar?  You'd have to drill & tap holes to assemble this.  This spacer could be quickly installed between the two rails with holes, giving the spacing instantly and perhaps resulting in a more rigid assembly.

This is a wonderful idea if anyone has a piece of scrap rale pleas let me know I will be more than glad to buy it.  I think this may be the best solution.

I was also thinking about this more it is the only festool product I am disappointed in.  But I think it can be fixed. The main issue is that the rail needs to be clamped on both ends for support even if you are just drilling the bottom half or middle half plus you need to add a couple of inches (sorry cm) for the spacer at the bottom they want you to put on, so the rail needs to be longer or as long as the piece, this is the flaw.  The trouble is when you clamp you also have to have the Festool clamps under the board which means both ends of the board need to be off the table or lifted off the table so the clamps can go on and the board is flat.  Or a mft will work.  Why not have a clamping system where the clamps, clamp on the board with wise and then have a way to slide the guide on the clamps at 90 deg and lock it in.  Then you could use one rail and simply move it up the board.  Also there measuring arms need to be a bit longer if you need to drill holes in the center of a wide board 15? or so they do not reach, but if you do the above clamp you can interrogate measuring into the clamping system just make the clamping system wide.  Best thing to do is for Festool to make another part for this set to join rails like suggested above and another clamp system so you have a choice what to use.

 

[Benjamin Miner]

Thanks guys...I was trying to decide between this and the jig made by MEG Products. Looks like the MEG is the one to have. Simple, elegant.
Festool is terrific, but they're not infallible...

 

[Warrior]

Thanks guys...I was trying to decide between this and the jig made by MEG Products. Looks like the MEG is the one to have. Simple, elegant.
Festool is terrific, but they're not infallible...

Benjamin,

The MEG guide looks pretty sweet, but I think you guys are missing out on the LR-32. I think it is the easiest and most efficient router boring system to use. I mean with the MEG you have to lift the router off the template to get the bushing out and into the next hole before even boring the hole.  With the LR-32 you just have to figure out the fastest way to set up you system and that depends on how you work. Someone ,err Seth,  ;Dplease post a link to Mirko's LR32 thread. Mirkos jig is sweet for short stuff and you could easily expand it for use with the longer rail. Why would you have the need to make a cabinet gable longer than 92" is beyond me.  I havent built the Mirko jig yet, but just found that my LR32 bores 210mm OC from the back of the rail. In use boring the holes is very fast click, plunge, click, plunge. Typing that was slower than boring the holes. I use the long rail  for long parts and the short rail for short parts. I was thinking about boring holes in one of my longer rails but figured that in the set up time alone I could just buy one and save myself the trouble. I have no regrets with the LR32. I think it is one of the best Festools in the line up.

Eiji Fuller