Apollo hvlp in Cabinet Grade Clear

[Scott B.]

You don't have an excuse, you have enough gear to leave one for paint grade and or clears only. I would be a little freaked out about tiny flecks of white in the ultramax as well to be honest.  [scared]

But there is always the lingering "what if"?

I generally don't like tools that are specialists, but they are most a little better at one than the other.

I was just talking with someone the other day from the carpentry world and explaining why if I had to pick one and live with it for everything, it would be the 395.

 

[JHC]

No complaints from me. I have used mine for every type of application most residential finishers would ever need and been happy with the results. Spraying in occupied homes has been so much easier than with a traditional airless.

 

[Scott B.]

No complaints from me. I have used mine for every type of application most residential finishers would ever need and been happy with the results. Spraying in occupied homes has been so much easier than with a traditional airless.

Yah, no comparison there. Fine finish tip on airless is a joke in comparison huh?

 

[JHC]

Night and day. It is one of my favorite tool purchases in the last few years. I am about to go spray some shellac with the airless, and am dreading having to cover everything in the shop I don't want dusted.

 

[Scott B.]

Night and day. It is one of my favorite tool purchases in the last few years. I am about to go spray some shellac with the airless, and am dreading having to cover everything in the shop I don't want dusted.

Shellac with an airless? I would rather be flat on my arse with an oil migraine (which I am - thanks Watco, er, Scott Burt's Kryptonite).

Please video this event, especially the pump, gun and hose cleanup. When I come out there in December, we can sit down and watch it, and then go buy your new hvlp!

 

[JHC]

I could do it all with an hvlp, but I have so much to spray it would take to long. I should be out there spraying now instead of talking on FOG.  [cool]

Airlessco lp540 will get the call. I feel sorry for that pump, but it isn't the first time I have done it to her.

 

[tiralie]

Shellac with an airless?
Please video this event, especially the pump, gun and hose cleanup.

That would be good to see. Hopefully you can video that or at least take some photo's.
Tim

 

[Scott B.]

I haven't heard from Tommy since his post the other day. Tommy, can you hear me?

 

[Tim Sproul]

He's probably still running alcohol through the pump to clean it.

 

[JHC]

I haven't heard from Tommy since his post the other day. Tommy, can you hear me?

I made it through it, wasn't as bad as I made it out to be in my head. However I have a ton more pine that has to be done, most of it is on the walls in an occupied house.

He's probably still running alcohol through the pump to clean it.

Na two gallons of cheap dollar store ammonia, and then flush with water. It would be crazy expensive to flush an airless with a 50' hose with alcohol.

 

[riffin-rich]

Tommy, please explain.  Are you talking about cleaning your 1050VR with ammonia?  Can you please tell me more?  Whenever I spray waterborne, I clean with hot soapy water, strip the gun down, soak the parts and scrub the best I can, followed by spraying about 4 oz. of denatured alcohol.  And if I spray shellac, I just clean with denatured alcohol.  Or is this not enough?  Should I be using ammonia?  Thanks!

 

[rookie08]

Riffin,

I'm looking at selling my Graco 4900(I got it with the Procart and just don't do enough work to justify it). I see you are in NOVA.  I'm in MD.  Did you find a local place purchase the Apollo you would recommend?

Thanks!

James

 

[riffin-rich]

Sorry James, I didn't.  I bought it at the wood show (Dulles Convention Center) last year.  The Apollo rep was demo'ing the unit and swore it was crazy easy to get a good finish (my buddy and I had never sprayed anything except cans of spray paint).  So he handed us the gun and we talked and played for about 20 minutes shooting black watered down paint at a large paper pad on an easel.  He talked us through the mix he was using (black Behr latex paint) thinned with about 20% tap water.  We thanked him for his time and walked way, talking our way around the floor.  Then, we happened across a raised panel door (a rep was demo'ing router bits or a rails/stiles sled) and told us we could have the bare door.  We got some sandpaper and sanded it down a bit ... then went back to the Apollo rep's booth to ask if we could try spraying real wood.  He said, "Sure, have at it!"  He gave us a little coaching on the set-up and off we went.  We had a dozen people watching us ... two morons that never sprayed anything.  Rob sprayed one side of the door.  I sprayed the other side of the door.  We let it sit for a bit and were so impressed with the results, that we each bought a 1050VR with the deluxe tips kit.  As I said in my earlier post, I don't have a lot of experience with the sprayer.  But my first project entailed a repair of our kitchen cabinet's trash can.  I fully sanded the door down, color-matched with a base coat of stain and TransTint'ed urethane and laid a few coats until I was happy.  I swear it looks better than the finish on my 6 year old cabinets...  I say go for it because if we can do this without experience, what can someone like you with experience do?  ;-)  (The cabinet job was spraying General Finishes Enduro-Var waterbased urethane).  I'm not saying it's the only sprayer to have because I'm sure it's not.  But the 5 stage turbine has a TON of power to spray thicker stuff, and the agility to dial it down to minimize over-spray.  Good luck with your decision/purchase.  I'm looking forward to hearing from you after you try it.  (By the way, I am not affiliated with Apollo in any way ... I'm just very happy with my purchase)

Take care,
Rich
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[rookie08]

That was you in Chantilly? I heard Apollo made a video and their sales have tripled.  [big grin]. 

Thanks for the response.  I'm going to sell my setup and then purchase the same as yours.

Your work looks great by the way!!

James

 

[Scott B.]

Rich

For a guy who hasn't logged a ton of hvlp hours, your work looks stellar. Great job. Having a machine that can do pretty much anything eliminates so much of the frustration so you can just focus on your technique and the finish at the surface, rather than how to make the rig happy.

 

[mastercabman]

 He talked us through the mix he was using (black Behr latex paint) thinned with about 20% tap water.

OK,I have to ask.
How is it that people mix that much water to thin out latex,when i read that you should not use more than 1 cup of water per gallon on most paint.
Some paint even states "DO NOT THIN".
I have sprayed latex with my HVLP before and did not get perfect finish.I also used flowtrol witch help with spraying.
I have ask that question many times to many paint store.And always get the same answer.Only use flowtrol or a little water.
20% water seems like a lot for thinning.Is that the ratio that you use?  Do you get good result? How is the sheen?
The reason i ask is because i got very poor result when thinnig with water(more than recommended)
Drying slow,uneven sheen,flat looking.
I really beleive that latex should be sprayed with an airless machine,no so much with HVLP.
Or maybe i was doing something wrong?

 

[JHC]

Tommy, please explain.  Are you talking about cleaning your 1050VR with ammonia?  Can you please tell me more?  Whenever I spray waterborne, I clean with hot soapy water, strip the gun down, soak the parts and scrub the best I can, followed by spraying about 4 oz. of denatured alcohol.  And if I spray shellac, I just clean with denatured alcohol.  Or is this not enough?  Should I be using ammonia?  Thanks!

I was spraying shellac primer with an airless, not hvlp. Using ammonia saves some coin over denatured alcohol.

 

[riffin-rich]

Thanks for your reply, Tommy. 

MasterCabman, I'm looking forward to more replies from you experienced guys.  Don't place any weight on the fact that the paint was thinned with 20% water.  Remember he was spraying paper with cheap paint just to demo the unit.  That said, there are reasons to thin.  According to my understanding, it's all about the Zahn #4 ... the relationship between tip size, viscosity and time through the zahn #4 funnel (for the Apollo gun) determines if thinning is needed.  In my limited experience, i would agree that there exists an inverse relationship between using the product act full strength and thinning it up to a maximum of 20%.  I lack the experience to tell you how much thinning yields unintended consequences or adversely impacts sheen, durability, color, etc., but sometimes it's just plain necessary to get your medium through the gun, to atomize well, and to flow-out on the surface well.  That's what's so nice about having a 5-stage turbine ... Lots of power to atomize, and with a wide selection of tips, you can spray a lot o different viscosities without too much concern for thinning.  Bottom line: thinning is bad but is sometimes necessary and the general rule is to never exceed 20% for those products that can be thinned.  I'm looking forward to more opinions/experiences/responses...

P.S. I thinned the last two projects I posted by 20% (including the TransTinted urethane cabinet door, and Target Coatings EM6500 and SC9000 ... the first projects after buying the Apollo).  But the bedroom closet project I thinned the first third of the project to 10%.  Then the last 2/3 of the project, I didn't thin at all.  I just turned up the turbine from 2.5 to 3.4.  Atomizing was phenomenal and the booth eliminated the overspray dust from settling all over the project. I'm out of town right now but I'll try to remember to take a close-up photo of the glass-like surface the knock-down booth enabled.

IMHO, it's not worth buying a sprayer if you don make such a booth. I'll try to remember to start another thread to detail my booth, and more importantly, my lessons.  It would be different if I did it again.  Sorry for going so off-topic... Best regards, Rich

 

[Scott B.]

 He talked us through the mix he was using (black Behr latex paint) thinned with about 20% tap water.

OK,I have to ask.
How is it that people mix that much water to thin out latex,when i read that you should not use more than 1 cup of water per gallon on most paint.
Some paint even states "DO NOT THIN".
I have sprayed latex with my HVLP before and did not get perfect finish.I also used flowtrol witch help with spraying.
I have ask that question many times to many paint store.And always get the same answer.Only use flowtrol or a little water.
20% water seems like a lot for thinning.Is that the ratio that you use?  Do you get good result? How is the sheen?
The reason i ask is because i got very poor result when thinnig with water(more than recommended)
Drying slow,uneven sheen,flat looking.
I really beleive that latex should be sprayed with an airless machine,no so much with HVLP.
Or maybe i was doing something wrong?

Here's my opinion, and everyone with an hvlp has a strong one about reduction. I would not thin 20%. It slows down an operation that is already speed challenged. If its that thin, its hard to hang on verts, and I have to build multiple thin layers, and the longer I am in the room or cabinet with a gun, the more likely I am to compromise the perfect finish I seek.

If I had to thin that much, I would go to a different product. Every paint is different. Some are just built to be sprayed. I am sure that the Apollo demo was thinning that much because they were probably running a bad Behr product that doesn't spray well. I would be surprised if they recommended that as standard practice across the product. In fact, they don't. I have met those guys and they know that the 1050 can spray most products straight up.

I run BM314 unthinned all day long 5 stage. It sprays and lays really well through both hvlp and aaa.

 

[mastercabman]

I run BM314 unthinned all day long 5 stage. It sprays and lays really well through both hvlp and aaa.

That's what they claim,5 stage turbine can spray latex all day.But why the demo guy thin his latex with 20% water for his demo?
I think that he wouldn't need to do so.
Can one of you post a close up picture of a latex finish with the Apollo HVLP sprayer?
Would really like to see the result of what the Apollo can do.
I am planning to expand my finishing equipment and still undecided witch route to take.