Band saw recommendations
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WarnerConstCo.
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ccmviking said:
Safe is in the hands of the user. What does high tension have to do with anything?
I got it sooo tight, I can break the blade, whooohooo.
nickao
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High tension can help stop blade wandering.
I agree with about 99% of this below. If the saw can get to 25000 to 30000 psi that's all you will ever need(many old saws could never reach this without ruining the wheels)). The blades he suggests are exactly the blades in my shop(I do not use the super low tension blades - 7000 psi, they do not work well with my particular saws, the Timberwolf - 15- 20,000 psi - do work for me) and I have the same experience with the Laguna blades they snap and are not as good as other blades out there.
From SoloWoodworker.com
Blade Tension
The minimum tension for a safe cut is slightly more tension than just enough to make the blade stop fluttering, no matter what type of blade. Set the guides as far apart as possible, and increase the tension until the blade runs smoothly - or decrease the tension until the blade starts to flutter, then increase it slightly. (On many saws you have to change the tracking after changing the tension.) Timberwolf recommends that you use their blades at this minimum tension, often around 7-8,000 psi, while others often recommend a higher tension if your saw can handle it. The Bladerunner/Wood Slicer typically is run at 20,000 psi. The Lenox carbide blades are typically run between 22,000 and 30,000 psi - I shoot for about 25,000 psi.
There are three confusing factors involved in blade tension...
Force is the pull of the spring - pounds. It is proportional to the amount the spring compresses until the spring's coil loops contact, so can be measured by the amount the end of the spring moves - the position of the end of the spring.
Stress = Force divided by area of cross section - pounds per square inch. If a blade is twice as wide, then there must be twice as much force to get the same stress on the blade. If the blade is twice as thick, there must also be twice as much force. And, of course, twice as wide, twice as thick needs 4 times as much force.
Strain is the amount the blade stretches, proportional to stress.
Stress (not force) is the key factor in blade tension. A low tension blade typically runs around 7,000 psi stress. High tension blades often run as high as 25-30,000 psi. The force you have to apply (the tension knob on the saw) is a lot greater for a large blade, but the tension, measured in psi, is the same for the large and small blades. Since it is related to the cross section area of the blade, the stress doesn't depend on the thickness or width of the blade, but the force required to achieve that stress (blade tension) does depend on the width and thickness of the blade.
Bandsaw tension gauges measure the compression of the spring (proportional to force), then indicate the appropriate setting for different blade widths. Most bandsaw gauges don't specify what thickness blade they are calibrated for, which is why they may be perfect for one blade, but are often misleading for other blades. My bandsaw's indicator says it is for a blade .019 inches thick (I have never had a blade that thin). Therefore, on my saw, if I use a ½ inch blade .035 inches thick, the tension indicator on my saw needs to be set for a one inch blade to get the recommended tension on the thicker half inch blade.
Measuring stress is done by measuring strain, in other words, measuring the amount the blade stretches. The elasticity (Young's modulus, E) of most steel is 30 million psi. The elongation L is the Stress divided by E. If we have 30,000 psi stress on the blade, the blade will elongate (stretch) 30,000 / 30,000,000 or 1/1000 of it's length. If we measure over 10 inches, we should see 10/1000 or .01 inch stretch in those 10 inches. If we see .005 inches elongation over 10 inches, we have 15,000 psi blade tension. For each .001 inch of elongation measured over 10 inches, we have 3,000 psi of blade tension. Measuring over the longer distance is generally more accurate. Once you establish how far apart you can connect a measuring device to your blade, I suggest making a chart for each thousandths of an inch strain (stretch), and the corresponding stress (blade tension).
On my saw, I can easily measure 12 inches apart. Using the numbers above, that means I should get 12/1000 or .012 inches stretch at 30,000 psi, or .001 inches for every 2,500 psi. Therefore if I want 25,000 psi, I tighten the blade until I get .01 inches stretch. It doesn't matter what size blade I use, the .01 inches stretch is 25,000 psi. Of course, if I have a big blade, I will have to use more force - tighten the wheel a lot harder - to get the same blade tension than the force I would need to get that same tension on a small blade.
Measuring should be done with the blade at a constant (room) temperature... when the blade gets hot through use, it will expand - comparable to the amount it stretches from tension.
You can buy a bandsaw blade tension gauge (that really measures strain) for $135 to $350, or you can make one from a cheap ($7) dial indicator and a couple spring clamps. Usually there is a connector on the back of the dial indicator, such as this, that can be clamped to the blade.
refer to his site for pics - http://www.solowoodworker.com/tools/resaw.html
An L or T shaped set of scrap wood allows the probe to be connected to the blade as far away as convenient (for greater accuracy), with whatever offset is required to align with the dial indicator. In my case I use a scrap of wood that allows the clamps to be 12 inches apart.
Therefore the chart for each thousandths of an inch stretch with the clamps 12 inches apart indicates 30,000,000 /1000 / 12 then .001 inches stretch = 2,500 psi blade tension, .002 inches stretch = 5000 psi, ... .009 inches stretch = 22,500 psi, .010 inches stretch - 25,000 psi, etc. That chart was taped to the side of my machine for a long time, but is so simple that I just remember it now. (Remember that the dial indicator doesn't have to be set to zero... just note the difference as you tension the blade.)
Or you can do what the majority of bandsaw users do - just make some cuts and if you get good results, be happy and keep going.
Choice of blades
For resawing, the width of the blade should be close to the maximum the bandsaw will handle. A smooth cut is very important, so an investment in a carbide tip blade is worthwhile. To use the maximum size, every guide, adjustment, and clearance may have to be in a specific "perfect" position. Therefore, to allow easier adjustment, some argue that one size less than the max is ideal.
The number of teeth per inch (tpi) depends on how fast you are sawing and the thickness of your workpiece, but for starters, consider 3 tpi a large number for resawing.
How long does a carbide blade last?
A recent discussion on the MiniMax User Forum provided some insight
A person doing a lot of resawing made the comment that "a single person in a furniture shop may not have to change their blade for years." That is me - I cannot contribute personal experience to lifespan for heavy resawing.
Further discussion on that forum suggested that 600-800 linear feet of resawing curly tropical hardwood, 6 or more inches high, might wear out a blade for resawing, but it would still be adequate for other less demanding uses. Highly abrasive wood might kill a blade in 400 linear feet. Those results were confirmed by another user, for both the Lenox TriMaster and Woodmaster CT. That doesn't sound like much, but it is probably more than a full day's work, and equates to a blade cost of about 15 cents per linear foot resawed.
My current favorite blade (1 inch Lenox Woodmaster CT) has 1.3 tpi, .035 inches thick, kerf .051 inches. The Woodmaster CT only comes in 1 inch, 2 inch, 3 inch, etc. Another favorite is the Lenox TriMaster which alternates between 2 and 3 teeth per inch, .035 thick, and comes in a wide choice of widths including 1 inch. The TriMaster has more teeth, with larger pieces of carbide for each tooth (so the kerf is .065 rather than .051 for the Woodmaster CT), and with the extra carbide costs proportionally more than a Woodmaster CT. My bandsaw will support a blade wider than one inch. However, even though wider blades are theoretically better, the readily available wider blades are also much thicker, so I only use 1 inch wide blades.
My favorite source for Lenox carbide tip blades is Industrial Blade - excellent service and the best prices I have found (1-800-SAW-BLADe in California).
The "Wood Slicer" (from Highland Hardware), also sold as the "Bladerunner" (by Louis Iturra) has a cult following for resawing dry hardwood. It is a very thin blade (.022 inch, .03 kerf) which removes less wood and requires less power. It has variable tooth pitch which runs quieter and smoother, and requires less tension (20,000 psi - see below), With less metal doing the cutting, it doesn't last as long, but it is far less expensive than a carbide tip blade, and gives very smooth cuts.
On one forum, one person had great results with the Laguna Resaw King, but another person's Resaw King blade broke, and Laguna said it was his fault for excess tension, even though they had refused to specify the recommended tension. I have tried the Resaw King from Laguna, but prefer the Lenox blades.
If you are sawing wet (green) wood, such as milling lumber or cutting bowl blanks, you need a wider kerf (the wet sawdust expands) and perhaps a thicker blade. None of the carbide blades I have seen are suitable for cutting green wood. Of course, for bowl blanks you will be cutting curves, and therefore want a narrower blade as well. Many people use a 3/8 or 1/2 inch wide blade for bowl blanks, in a special "model" blade designed to cut green wood.
For non-carbide blades I use the highly regarded Timberwolf blades. They are designed to operate with a lower tension, which can be an important factor with cheaper bandsaws. Suffolk Machinery is the importer/distributor, has a website with lots of good info about Timberwolf blades, but they only take orders by telephone (1-800-234-7297 in New York), with very knowledgeable operators, quick service, and low prices for these "premium" blades. Watch their web site for occasional "buy a few and get one free" sales.
I agree with about 99% of this below. If the saw can get to 25000 to 30000 psi that's all you will ever need(many old saws could never reach this without ruining the wheels)). The blades he suggests are exactly the blades in my shop(I do not use the super low tension blades - 7000 psi, they do not work well with my particular saws, the Timberwolf - 15- 20,000 psi - do work for me) and I have the same experience with the Laguna blades they snap and are not as good as other blades out there.
From SoloWoodworker.com
Blade Tension
The minimum tension for a safe cut is slightly more tension than just enough to make the blade stop fluttering, no matter what type of blade. Set the guides as far apart as possible, and increase the tension until the blade runs smoothly - or decrease the tension until the blade starts to flutter, then increase it slightly. (On many saws you have to change the tracking after changing the tension.) Timberwolf recommends that you use their blades at this minimum tension, often around 7-8,000 psi, while others often recommend a higher tension if your saw can handle it. The Bladerunner/Wood Slicer typically is run at 20,000 psi. The Lenox carbide blades are typically run between 22,000 and 30,000 psi - I shoot for about 25,000 psi.
There are three confusing factors involved in blade tension...
Force is the pull of the spring - pounds. It is proportional to the amount the spring compresses until the spring's coil loops contact, so can be measured by the amount the end of the spring moves - the position of the end of the spring.
Stress = Force divided by area of cross section - pounds per square inch. If a blade is twice as wide, then there must be twice as much force to get the same stress on the blade. If the blade is twice as thick, there must also be twice as much force. And, of course, twice as wide, twice as thick needs 4 times as much force.
Strain is the amount the blade stretches, proportional to stress.
Stress (not force) is the key factor in blade tension. A low tension blade typically runs around 7,000 psi stress. High tension blades often run as high as 25-30,000 psi. The force you have to apply (the tension knob on the saw) is a lot greater for a large blade, but the tension, measured in psi, is the same for the large and small blades. Since it is related to the cross section area of the blade, the stress doesn't depend on the thickness or width of the blade, but the force required to achieve that stress (blade tension) does depend on the width and thickness of the blade.
Bandsaw tension gauges measure the compression of the spring (proportional to force), then indicate the appropriate setting for different blade widths. Most bandsaw gauges don't specify what thickness blade they are calibrated for, which is why they may be perfect for one blade, but are often misleading for other blades. My bandsaw's indicator says it is for a blade .019 inches thick (I have never had a blade that thin). Therefore, on my saw, if I use a ½ inch blade .035 inches thick, the tension indicator on my saw needs to be set for a one inch blade to get the recommended tension on the thicker half inch blade.
Measuring stress is done by measuring strain, in other words, measuring the amount the blade stretches. The elasticity (Young's modulus, E) of most steel is 30 million psi. The elongation L is the Stress divided by E. If we have 30,000 psi stress on the blade, the blade will elongate (stretch) 30,000 / 30,000,000 or 1/1000 of it's length. If we measure over 10 inches, we should see 10/1000 or .01 inch stretch in those 10 inches. If we see .005 inches elongation over 10 inches, we have 15,000 psi blade tension. For each .001 inch of elongation measured over 10 inches, we have 3,000 psi of blade tension. Measuring over the longer distance is generally more accurate. Once you establish how far apart you can connect a measuring device to your blade, I suggest making a chart for each thousandths of an inch strain (stretch), and the corresponding stress (blade tension).
On my saw, I can easily measure 12 inches apart. Using the numbers above, that means I should get 12/1000 or .012 inches stretch at 30,000 psi, or .001 inches for every 2,500 psi. Therefore if I want 25,000 psi, I tighten the blade until I get .01 inches stretch. It doesn't matter what size blade I use, the .01 inches stretch is 25,000 psi. Of course, if I have a big blade, I will have to use more force - tighten the wheel a lot harder - to get the same blade tension than the force I would need to get that same tension on a small blade.
Measuring should be done with the blade at a constant (room) temperature... when the blade gets hot through use, it will expand - comparable to the amount it stretches from tension.
You can buy a bandsaw blade tension gauge (that really measures strain) for $135 to $350, or you can make one from a cheap ($7) dial indicator and a couple spring clamps. Usually there is a connector on the back of the dial indicator, such as this, that can be clamped to the blade.
refer to his site for pics - http://www.solowoodworker.com/tools/resaw.html
An L or T shaped set of scrap wood allows the probe to be connected to the blade as far away as convenient (for greater accuracy), with whatever offset is required to align with the dial indicator. In my case I use a scrap of wood that allows the clamps to be 12 inches apart.
Therefore the chart for each thousandths of an inch stretch with the clamps 12 inches apart indicates 30,000,000 /1000 / 12 then .001 inches stretch = 2,500 psi blade tension, .002 inches stretch = 5000 psi, ... .009 inches stretch = 22,500 psi, .010 inches stretch - 25,000 psi, etc. That chart was taped to the side of my machine for a long time, but is so simple that I just remember it now. (Remember that the dial indicator doesn't have to be set to zero... just note the difference as you tension the blade.)
Or you can do what the majority of bandsaw users do - just make some cuts and if you get good results, be happy and keep going.
Choice of blades
For resawing, the width of the blade should be close to the maximum the bandsaw will handle. A smooth cut is very important, so an investment in a carbide tip blade is worthwhile. To use the maximum size, every guide, adjustment, and clearance may have to be in a specific "perfect" position. Therefore, to allow easier adjustment, some argue that one size less than the max is ideal.
The number of teeth per inch (tpi) depends on how fast you are sawing and the thickness of your workpiece, but for starters, consider 3 tpi a large number for resawing.
How long does a carbide blade last?
A recent discussion on the MiniMax User Forum provided some insight
A person doing a lot of resawing made the comment that "a single person in a furniture shop may not have to change their blade for years." That is me - I cannot contribute personal experience to lifespan for heavy resawing.
Further discussion on that forum suggested that 600-800 linear feet of resawing curly tropical hardwood, 6 or more inches high, might wear out a blade for resawing, but it would still be adequate for other less demanding uses. Highly abrasive wood might kill a blade in 400 linear feet. Those results were confirmed by another user, for both the Lenox TriMaster and Woodmaster CT. That doesn't sound like much, but it is probably more than a full day's work, and equates to a blade cost of about 15 cents per linear foot resawed.
My current favorite blade (1 inch Lenox Woodmaster CT) has 1.3 tpi, .035 inches thick, kerf .051 inches. The Woodmaster CT only comes in 1 inch, 2 inch, 3 inch, etc. Another favorite is the Lenox TriMaster which alternates between 2 and 3 teeth per inch, .035 thick, and comes in a wide choice of widths including 1 inch. The TriMaster has more teeth, with larger pieces of carbide for each tooth (so the kerf is .065 rather than .051 for the Woodmaster CT), and with the extra carbide costs proportionally more than a Woodmaster CT. My bandsaw will support a blade wider than one inch. However, even though wider blades are theoretically better, the readily available wider blades are also much thicker, so I only use 1 inch wide blades.
My favorite source for Lenox carbide tip blades is Industrial Blade - excellent service and the best prices I have found (1-800-SAW-BLADe in California).
The "Wood Slicer" (from Highland Hardware), also sold as the "Bladerunner" (by Louis Iturra) has a cult following for resawing dry hardwood. It is a very thin blade (.022 inch, .03 kerf) which removes less wood and requires less power. It has variable tooth pitch which runs quieter and smoother, and requires less tension (20,000 psi - see below), With less metal doing the cutting, it doesn't last as long, but it is far less expensive than a carbide tip blade, and gives very smooth cuts.
On one forum, one person had great results with the Laguna Resaw King, but another person's Resaw King blade broke, and Laguna said it was his fault for excess tension, even though they had refused to specify the recommended tension. I have tried the Resaw King from Laguna, but prefer the Lenox blades.
If you are sawing wet (green) wood, such as milling lumber or cutting bowl blanks, you need a wider kerf (the wet sawdust expands) and perhaps a thicker blade. None of the carbide blades I have seen are suitable for cutting green wood. Of course, for bowl blanks you will be cutting curves, and therefore want a narrower blade as well. Many people use a 3/8 or 1/2 inch wide blade for bowl blanks, in a special "model" blade designed to cut green wood.
For non-carbide blades I use the highly regarded Timberwolf blades. They are designed to operate with a lower tension, which can be an important factor with cheaper bandsaws. Suffolk Machinery is the importer/distributor, has a website with lots of good info about Timberwolf blades, but they only take orders by telephone (1-800-234-7297 in New York), with very knowledgeable operators, quick service, and low prices for these "premium" blades. Watch their web site for occasional "buy a few and get one free" sales.
Jesse Cloud
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Dovetail65 said:
Good discussion there Dovetail!
I'm staying out of this though - bandsaw tuning is like religion, very easy to get into a heated argument.
WarnerConstCo.
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If you want one of the best built saws get an Oliver 217D.
nickao
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That's a 1600 lb monster!
http://picasaweb.google.com/chathamworkshop/Oliver217DBandSawRestoration02
http://picasaweb.google.com/chathamworkshop/Oliver217DBandSawRestoration02
stvrowe
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Before offering my 2 cents, I would like to know what the OP wants to do with the bandsaw. The answer as to size, brand, etc. will be much different if you want to mill logs, cut wide veneer versus doing bandsaw boxes.
My favorite BS brands are; Aggazani, Felder, Minimax, and Laguna (Italian make only). Of these, I have owned Aggazani and Laguna and have used Minimax. I seriously considered the Felder when I went with the Aggazani B-24 but the blade size range was better on the Agg so I went with it. IMO - all of these are Festool caliber machines.
I have also owned: Shopsmith 11" (not recommended) and Delta 14" (good for curves but not so much for resaw). Both of these saws were USA made. I have also used a 14" Powermatic which is similar to the Delta. IMO, none of these are Festool caliber machines.
Based on my previous experience with multiple Grizzly machines, if this was the only option available, I would prefer not owning a BS and would use 18th century techniques instead.
As others have indicated, you cannot get good dust extraction from a BS without moving a lot of air. The BS models that will have the best dust collection have a chamber immediately below the table in addition to a collection point at the base of the machine. Even with this, it will not be Festool quality dust extraction.
Good luck with your choice.
Steve
My favorite BS brands are; Aggazani, Felder, Minimax, and Laguna (Italian make only). Of these, I have owned Aggazani and Laguna and have used Minimax. I seriously considered the Felder when I went with the Aggazani B-24 but the blade size range was better on the Agg so I went with it. IMO - all of these are Festool caliber machines.
I have also owned: Shopsmith 11" (not recommended) and Delta 14" (good for curves but not so much for resaw). Both of these saws were USA made. I have also used a 14" Powermatic which is similar to the Delta. IMO, none of these are Festool caliber machines.
Based on my previous experience with multiple Grizzly machines, if this was the only option available, I would prefer not owning a BS and would use 18th century techniques instead.
As others have indicated, you cannot get good dust extraction from a BS without moving a lot of air. The BS models that will have the best dust collection have a chamber immediately below the table in addition to a collection point at the base of the machine. Even with this, it will not be Festool quality dust extraction.
Good luck with your choice.
Steve
WarnerConstCo.
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Dovetail65 said:
Heck, that is a light weight compared to alot of the other ones they made/make.
When I hear heft and mass I think about machines 1500 pounds and up.
Plus I think that 217d is one of the best looking bs made.
nickao
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What? I have 2 Grizzly band saw for a little over 4 years and have had only the bearings go out from so much use. What do you base this on if you never owned one?
I have found the guys that dis Grizzly normally never owned one(whether a dust collector, table saw or band saw etc) and just used it once or so. Kind of like using a Rotex once and calling it crap. The Grizzly saw, depending on model, have beat out many, many brands in magazine reviews and in my personal use there is nothing close to value for the money. I love my Grizzly and unless it blew up tomorrow no one can convince me its not a great saw! Even if it did that 4 years of daily beatings it has taken!
I guess when it is in the new shop and I will video the resaw capability, it resaws as well as a Laguna and a heck of a lot faster, albeit without the finesse. I guess I am a Chevy guy, I'll take my Camaro and Vette over your Ferrari any day!
People keep saying Festool quality. Do people not remember the Kapex fiasco and others. Their tools are not infallible and some of their tools are NOT the best in their class. Festool has had their share of quality issues like any company. I am not bashing of course I have loads of Festools probably more than most.
I prefer to compare individual tool companies tools when making comparison as even DeWalt makes some tools that shine. The Grizzly may not be an OF2200 quality, but it certainly is better quality than an ETS 125! And definitely better than no band saw at all! Saying having no band saw rather then a Grizzly is a bit of tool snobbery, but I guess that's we all do it. My shop is now based around the band saw, not the table saw as it once was. If I had 200.00 I still would have to get some kind of band saw, not nothing.
I have found the guys that dis Grizzly normally never owned one(whether a dust collector, table saw or band saw etc) and just used it once or so. Kind of like using a Rotex once and calling it crap. The Grizzly saw, depending on model, have beat out many, many brands in magazine reviews and in my personal use there is nothing close to value for the money. I love my Grizzly and unless it blew up tomorrow no one can convince me its not a great saw! Even if it did that 4 years of daily beatings it has taken!
I guess when it is in the new shop and I will video the resaw capability, it resaws as well as a Laguna and a heck of a lot faster, albeit without the finesse. I guess I am a Chevy guy, I'll take my Camaro and Vette over your Ferrari any day!
People keep saying Festool quality. Do people not remember the Kapex fiasco and others. Their tools are not infallible and some of their tools are NOT the best in their class. Festool has had their share of quality issues like any company. I am not bashing of course I have loads of Festools probably more than most.
I prefer to compare individual tool companies tools when making comparison as even DeWalt makes some tools that shine. The Grizzly may not be an OF2200 quality, but it certainly is better quality than an ETS 125! And definitely better than no band saw at all! Saying having no band saw rather then a Grizzly is a bit of tool snobbery, but I guess that's we all do it.
My shop is now based around the band saw, not the table saw as it once was. If I had 200.00 I still would have to get some kind of band saw, not nothing.Ken Nagrod
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It also depends where you're located.
John, in your part of the country that 1500-2000 pound machine would cut silky smooth while the Earth is moving around underneath you. [big grin]
John, in your part of the country that 1500-2000 pound machine would cut silky smooth while the Earth is moving around underneath you. [big grin]
Ken Nagrod
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joraft said:
That was a woman's doing. Mother Nature liked it better in that spot! Be glad she didn't move it back. Oh wait! She had you do it. [big grin]
stvrowe
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What? Read the post - it clearly indicates "based on my experience with multiple Grizzly machines". The fact that you are happy with your Grizzly BS doesn't make me feel any better about the three (yes that is the number 3) extremely poor quality Grizzly machines I suffered with for between 3 -15 years. I even had one of the machines couplings fall apart within 30 seconds of turning it on and under zero load. Thank goodness they are all gone now and based on my past experiences with them, it is 3 strikes and they are out. I will never own another Grizz anything. This is not "snobbery" as you put it - it is simply a complete unwillingness to suffer the Grizzly experience for a 4th time.
Dovetail65 said:What? I have 2 Grizzly band saw for a little over 4 years and have had only the bearings go out from so much use. What do you base this on if you never owned one?
I have found the guys that dis Grizzly normally never owned one(whether a dust collector, table saw or band saw etc) and just used it once or so. Kind of like using a Rotex once and calling it crap. The Grizzly saw, depending on model, have beat out many, many brands in magazine reviews and in my personal use there is nothing close to value for the money. I love my Grizzly and unless it blew up tomorrow no one can convince me its not a great saw! Even if it did that 4 years of daily beatings it has taken!
I guess when it is in the new shop and I will video the resaw capability, it resaws as well as a Laguna and a heck of a lot faster, albeit without the finesse. I guess I am a Chevy guy, I'll take my Camaro and Vette over your Ferrari any day!
People keep saying Festool quality. Do people not remember the Kapex fiasco and others. Their tools are not infallible and some of their tools are NOT the best in their class. Festool has had their share of quality issues like any company. I am not bashing of course I have loads of Festools probably more than most.
I prefer to compare individual tool companies tools when making comparison as even DeWalt makes some tools that shine. The Grizzly may not be an OF2200 quality, but it certainly is better quality than an ETS 125! And definitely better than no band saw at all! Saying having no band saw rather then a Grizzly is a bit of tool snobbery, but I guess that's we all do it.
WarnerConstCo.
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Yeah, Grizzly is a cheap knock-off china company. I really don't think they actually plan on building anything to last very long.
I do however have their 4 bag dust collector. It reeks of cheapness the whole way around but, I got it super cheap used and very close to home. If it craps out on me at least I only spent a ben franklin on it. It is an older unit, if that makes any difference.
These are very nice machines: http://www.tannewitz.com/t_woodworking.asp
I would say Martin but, they don't make a BS.
I do however have their 4 bag dust collector. It reeks of cheapness the whole way around but, I got it super cheap used and very close to home. If it craps out on me at least I only spent a ben franklin on it. It is an older unit, if that makes any difference.
These are very nice machines: http://www.tannewitz.com/t_woodworking.asp
I would say Martin but, they don't make a BS.
WarnerConstCo. said:
I've never owned anything Grizzly, but I've heard that the machines they import from Taiwan are not too bad. Of course they cost a lot more than the Chinese stuff.
Correction: I just remembered that I bought a granite block for sharpening from Grizzly six months ago. It has performed as advertised, not a single breakdown. [big grin]
John in particular but anyone else who cares to comment as well:
I'm also trying to decide between bandsaws and would appreciate this group's words of wisdom. I have been leaning towards the Agazzani B20 and had a chance to visit Jesse at Eagle Tools last summer to see it. It's easy to see why he has such a good reputation.
In the meantime, I have a Hammer A3 31 on order and saw their recent price reduction on the Felder FB 600 ( now $ 3,268--still higher than the intro but only a few hundred more than the B20 for a much heavier and slightly larger machine, and pretty equivalent to the B24). If I order the Felder now and combine shipping with the A3 31, I'll also save several hundred, making it essentially a wash.
One of John's posts somewhere suggested he might lean towards the FB 600 if making his purchase today. As I'm in Central Oregon and it is not easy to find a FB 600 to look at, I'm curious how those with experience would compare these machines. (While the Oliver and Tannewitz both look intriguing, I don't know that I have the ability to muscle the large beast up my driveway and into my shop in the first case or the additional budget for the second.)
More specifically on the Agi vs. Felder comparison:
1) the guides look pretty similar--any noticeable differences in ease of adjustment, stability, or use?
2) how do the blade tensioning assemblies compare--the B20 is very beefy but I haven't found a photo of the FB 600's.
3) overall sense for quality of cut, especially in resawing?
My expected uses are:
1) resawing
2) cutting arcs and longer curves for furniture pieces (where the ability to share table extensions between the planer and bandsaw seems like a nice bonus)
3) some milling of lumber (trees cut on our property)
4) perhaps some bandsaw tenons (I don't have a table saw)
This would be my first bandsaw since shop class many moons ago, but I only want to buy once. I hope to have a few decades left where I can build some furniture for personal and family use
There has been a lot of great info in this thread--thanks in advance for any further observations.
Sincerely,
Phred
I'm also trying to decide between bandsaws and would appreciate this group's words of wisdom. I have been leaning towards the Agazzani B20 and had a chance to visit Jesse at Eagle Tools last summer to see it. It's easy to see why he has such a good reputation.
In the meantime, I have a Hammer A3 31 on order and saw their recent price reduction on the Felder FB 600 ( now $ 3,268--still higher than the intro but only a few hundred more than the B20 for a much heavier and slightly larger machine, and pretty equivalent to the B24). If I order the Felder now and combine shipping with the A3 31, I'll also save several hundred, making it essentially a wash.
One of John's posts somewhere suggested he might lean towards the FB 600 if making his purchase today. As I'm in Central Oregon and it is not easy to find a FB 600 to look at, I'm curious how those with experience would compare these machines. (While the Oliver and Tannewitz both look intriguing, I don't know that I have the ability to muscle the large beast up my driveway and into my shop in the first case or the additional budget for the second.)
More specifically on the Agi vs. Felder comparison:
1) the guides look pretty similar--any noticeable differences in ease of adjustment, stability, or use?
2) how do the blade tensioning assemblies compare--the B20 is very beefy but I haven't found a photo of the FB 600's.
3) overall sense for quality of cut, especially in resawing?
My expected uses are:
1) resawing
2) cutting arcs and longer curves for furniture pieces (where the ability to share table extensions between the planer and bandsaw seems like a nice bonus)
3) some milling of lumber (trees cut on our property)
4) perhaps some bandsaw tenons (I don't have a table saw)
This would be my first bandsaw since shop class many moons ago, but I only want to buy once. I hope to have a few decades left where I can build some furniture for personal and family use
There has been a lot of great info in this thread--thanks in advance for any further observations.
Sincerely,
Phred
Have a look here for some pictures of the guides plus tensioner
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/new-christmas-present-to-myself/
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/new-christmas-present-to-myself/
