Barn makeover

[gkeas]

Nice space!

If I had that, I’d put my dust collector and compressor upstairs, just to save shop space and cut down on a little noise.

(I know tools are loud but the sound of vacs and compressors irritate me[emoji2957])

I am a low voltage contractor and I would suggest putting the cat 6 in its own conduit after 6” of back fill above the electrical to the main house.  I do know it’s against code here in the US to have low voltage lines in with high, but not sure about Canada.

I tried to find out exactly what the Canadian code says about low voltage and quess what? You have to by the book, $180CAD for part I, not sure how many parts there is  [scared]

I'm pretty sure they have to be separate. Wondering if the cat6 cable is by default shielded?

You can get shielded cat6 but it is not standard.  You can also get direct burial, but I’m no a big fan of having wire in dirt.

 

[Cheese]

Here's some interesting Cat 6 I stumbled upon the other day. It's direct burial with gel inside the jacket to prevent water ingress.

Also at the bottom of the page is some Cat 5E that's shielded.
https://www.parts-express.com/cat-6-550-mhz-direct-bury-gel-1000-ft--101-440

 

[glenn storey]

Nice space!

If I had that, I’d put my dust collector and compressor upstairs, just to save shop space and cut down on a little noise.

(I know tools are loud but the sound of vacs and compressors irritate me[emoji2957])

I am a low voltage contractor and I would suggest putting the cat 6 in its own conduit after 6” of back fill above the electrical to the main house.  I do know it’s against code here in the US to have low voltage lines in with high, but not sure about Canada.

I tried to find out exactly what the Canadian code says about low voltage and quess what? You have to by the book, $180CAD for part I, not sure how many parts there is  [scared]

I'm pretty sure they have to be separate. Wondering if the cat6 cable is by default shielded?

call an electrical supplier, such as Paul Wolf, or Torbram Electric and ask them. They should tell you what you need to know.

 

[glenn storey]

oh, and if you're in Ottawa, R12 ain't gonna cut it.

 

[Mario Turcot]

oh, and if you're in Ottawa, R12 ain't gonna cut it.

In fact I live just across the river, Québec code is slightly different then Ontario  [eek]

Glenn, I believe Erg is looking to run an ethernet cable. Last summer I ran 3 PVC, 2" for thr 100amps panel and 2x 3/4" for future. The 2" is at 7' deep just a feet over the drain pipe and the 2x 3/4" at about 4' deep. However, when hitting the foundation all 3 pipes are close to each other  [blink]

 

[Sparktrician]

Here's some interesting Cat 6 I stumbled upon the other day. It's direct burial with gel inside the jacket to prevent water ingress.

Years ago, we used to work with multi-hundred pair burial telephone able that was similarly heavily sheathed, shielded and silicon-gel-filled.  We called it "Icky-PIC".  One didn't want to get any of the icky goop on clothing since it would never come out. 

 

[Cheese]

Years ago, we used to work with multi-hundred pair burial telephone able that was similarly heavily sheathed, shielded and silicon-gel-filled.  We called it "Icky-PIC".  One didn't want to get any of the icky goop on clothing since it would never come out.

So Sparky, aside from the fact you had to wash your hands and clothing in gasoline...did that stuff work or was it just a hindrance?

 

[ERG]

Hi! I bought 500 ft of direct burial UTP cat6 for the shop. Pure copper 23 awg. I called the company and the recommended this for my application, which is to run an IP camera and access point with PoE.

CABLE-V014 is the product on amazon. 

I also got a 30 slot 100A Siemens breaker panel from lowes with a breaker package, $170. I price matched it from homedepot and got 10% off.

 

[Sparktrician]

Years ago, we used to work with multi-hundred pair burial telephone able that was similarly heavily sheathed, shielded and silicon-gel-filled.  We called it "Icky-PIC".  One didn't want to get any of the icky goop on clothing since it would never come out.

So Sparky, aside from the fact you had to wash your hands and clothing in gasoline...did that stuff work or was it just a hindrance?

It works well to keep moisture out of burial cables, but it really makes a huge mess with everything it touches.  We often had to just throw away our contaminated clothing because the stuff didn't want to come out.  [bite tongue]

 

[gkeas]

The silicone flooded stuff is effective, but awful to work with. I do not care for it.

 

[Cheese]

It works well to keep moisture out of burial cables, but it really makes a huge mess with everything it touches.  We often had to just throw away our contaminated clothing because the stuff didn't want to come out.  [bite tongue]

Thanks for that.
Well then my question becomes, if you were running cable to your own homestead, would you use the silicone filled stuff or not?

And if not, what would be the options you'd be comfortable with?

 

[Sparktrician]

It works well to keep moisture out of burial cables, but it really makes a huge mess with everything it touches.  We often had to just throw away our contaminated clothing because the stuff didn't want to come out.  [bite tongue]

Thanks for that.
Well then my question becomes, if you were running cable to your own homestead, would you use the silicone filled stuff or not?

And if not, what would be the options you'd be comfortable with?

Direct burial cable (Type UF) doesn't have the silicone fill.  It's nonetheless a real booger to work with, but I've never had it leak unless there was an immediate cause, like a nick by someone digging in the vicinity.  I've come to like liquidtight conduit (Type LFMC) with a pull string, provided someone doesn't inadvertently pull out the pull string. 

 

[Alanbach]

When I did my shop I wanted a low voltage run and some room for growth. After hearing what I wanted, my electrician told me what kind of pvc conduit to buy and he gave me a bunch of pull string. I glued the conduit together and ran the pull string through it as I went. All the electrician had to do was kick it into the trench and add the fittings to bring the two new pvc conduits up into place. He properly buried the voltage conduits to comply with code and then to also give enough room between the low voltage extra conduits and the voltage wires before I topped off the trench. It cost me almost nothing more than the parts. I have used those conduits twice in the last ten years. Just don’t forget to run a new pull cord when you use the existing one to pull a new wire.

 

[ERG]

Alright boys, I'm back at work on the barn...

Bought some windows at the end of summer and the weather was nice enough to install them.

Hooked up the new panel just before it started snowing last year. Does that look up to code? Just kidding, it's a temporary circuit I put on while I was re-framing the windows.

I'll be pulling the wire I put in last year and I'll start from scratch with 12/2 and 20 amps circuits.

I have an issue I need advice with. Water is seeping under the cinder blocks of the footer. I plan to have a nice finished floor there so we can't have water, obviously. I looked at parging the outside but it doesn't look like that helps with waterproofing. I see rubber product I might be able to paint on but I'm not sure how good that would be. Any ideas?

 

 

[rvieceli]

[member=49937]ERG[/member] you need to keep the water away from the building rather than attempting to keep the water out once it gets there.
if you have gutters make sure that they are clear and the downspouts empty and flow away from the base of the building. If you don't have gutters, consider installing.

Make sure the surrounding grade slopes away from the foundation and doesn't let water pool around the base. if it's not possible to totally slope away from the base, consider sloping to a ditch a few feet away from the building that then runs the water away.

If that doesn't work then you may need to also trench around the foundation and install a French drain that drains to daylight ideally or a dry well.

Ron

 

[Cheese]

Ya Ron’s got this one handled entirely. Gutters and a slope away from the building are your friends.

One other thing to consider is if the building doesn’t have gutters, look at where the roof ends in relation to the ground. After many years of runoff from the roof, the constant pounding of the rain can make a 4"-5" wide trench around the building that’s perpendicular to the edge of the roof. A mini moat of sorts is formed around the building and prevents the water from draining properly. Worse yet, if there isn't a steep pitch away from the building, the mini moat will fill up and water will flow back to the building.  [eek]

Easy to fix, just add gutters and add soil to provide a proper continuous slope away from the building.

If you don’t like 10’ gutter extensions laying on the ground to interfere with grass mowing, just install 10’ pvc extensions underground with pop up water emitters. They work real slick.

 

[Sparktrician]

I'd add that it might be a really good idea to install foundation drains, too, with leaders that carry water well away from the structure.  Then you can feed the gutters into the drains.  Mo' bettah good, yah?  Once you get it proven dry, then you can epoxy the concrete and do it right.  [smile]

 

[Mario Turcot]

[member=49937]ERG[/member]

One thing to consider about electrical panel is vibration. There is vibration everywhere, when it comes to electrical installation it's a real P.I.T.A. to find out the source of problem.

Tips:
-After 12 months you get your panel setup, revisit every breaker screws if you are using bolt-on breakers. For the clip-on breakers I suggest that you check the wire connection and apply good pressure on each breaker from the central bus.

As an industrial electrician I did my fair share of building shutdown inspections.  It's amazing how many breakers/connections come loose in a 12 months period.

 

[Tinker]

From the pic you showed it looks like the sills are barely above ground. It looks like you have a good slope all around. at least on the down hill side. You are in a cold climate and good grading is important. A french drain all around where the drip line from the roof. I don't know what temperatures you will be dealing with. Once heat is in the barn, i think the slope to the lower roof will shed snow and the ice buildup will not create a dam at the eaves. i don't think your should install gutters. You have good grade and a good french drain to grade should be adequate. Better make the surface of the stone a little lower than grade to catch water from snowmelt and rain. From your photo, it looks like you may have vertical siding. Whatever siding you have, see if it is possible to tuck flashing under the siding and down at least to ground level along the foundation.  It you can afford to regrade around the foundation, get the gradeatleast afoot down from the sills. That might not be possible if the footings are not deep enough.

When i was in construction, it is funny, i almost never was called to fix water problem when a house was close to a swamp. All the problems were on high ground like your barn is. The responder who suggested don't try to get rid of the water after it gets into the building, just figure out how to get it away from the building before it gets in. you had good grade on the one side of the barn. I can't tell what the other side is, but you do have change to drain the water well awayfrom the building. I don't recommend the gutters in your climate asi mentioned above. I have had to shovel many roofs in heavy snow year. All had gutters. And, they were way down here in Connecticut. I think you just might have a little more snow in your area. Maybe not so much ice involvement with winter storms. I don't know about that.

Stay away from dry wells to catch all the water from the roof unless you have excellent drainage. Heavy rain after the gound is already saturated from week of rain, and all the wells can be full and then you have more problems.

Tinker

 

[ERG]

Thanks all for your good advice. Sounds like I'll have to do some digging this summer. I can't see another way to manage the water other than having a dry well, it's pretty flat all around. What do you suggest?