Barrel vs D Grip

[Yes]

Hi All,
About to grab a 420 Carvex and coming from a D grip jigsaw I am leaning that way. However, I have read the benefits of the barrel grip - particularly about control being closer to the cut line/material - and I see a lot of people prefer this option.
What’s really holding me back though is the lack of tigger/fine speed control on barrel models. I feel I have better control over the cut when I control the speed.
Am I missing something?
Also, I’ve read some horror stories about the Carvex blade change and guard... are these mostly overblown?
Thanks

 

[usernumber1]

its all preference. i dont even have a need for the speed control you learned to depend on

 

[Ron B]

I have small hands and the barrel did not work for me at all.  I purchased a D handle recently and like it.  We all have preferences. 

 

[mino]

Hi All,
About to grab a 420 Carvex and coming from a D grip jigsaw I am leaning that way. However, I have read the benefits of the barrel grip - particularly about control being closer to the cut line/material - and I see a lot of people prefer this option.
What’s really holding me back though is the lack of tigger/fine speed control on barrel models. I feel I have better control over the cut when I control the speed.
Am I missing something?
Also, I’ve read some horror stories about the Carvex blade change and guard... are these mostly overblown?
Thanks

I have the barrel Carvex PSC420 and a couple older D grips for other brands.

IMO the barrel grip is better for the type of work a jigsaw is meant to be used for - special cases where no other saw will do.

The D-Grip is better if you are (ab) using the jigsaw as a general saw for sheet-cutting, beam-cutting etc.

The issue with the ergonomics of a barrel saw comes from use case. What is better for one is not so great for other:

In my experience a (proper) use of a jigsaw is kinda counter-intuitive *):
- you should not "plunge" with a moving blade
- you should not start the motor when the saw is not "static"/immovable against the material
- you should not remove the saw while the blade is moving
- you should not stop the motor when the saw is not "static"/immovable against the material

This is quite different compared to most other saws, where you actually need the tool at full tilt before it touches the material..

The D-grip ones are more forgiving here thanks to the more secure "grip" you have on the saw. That is great if one needs to quickly cross cut a beam. Accuracy be damned in that case. That is a typical construction use case in a weird location/ladder/etc. or a (beginning) DIY user who might not have a circular saw not to mention a tracksaw.

With a barrel grip, you pretty much must follow the guidelines as:
- the grip leans itself for minute detail control but is unforgiving so "rough handling" is a no-go, you simply need to allow the saw to "do its work" instead of brute-forcing it
- the switch is not easily reachable while you are guiding the saw => you have to consciously stop the movement of the saw and then power it down => again, a non-issue if you are used to how a jigsaw needs to be handled for precise work anyway but a PITA for rough work on the fly

Overall, I would say a Carvex => fine work means a barrel grip and seriously consider the PSC instead of PS. A jigsaw does not suck battery much and the cord is a really nuisance in complicated tasks which are its domain to begin with.

If you are looking for a universal tool /to even replace a track saw in a crisis/ do NOT look at the Carvex.
The Carvex is fully optimized for curves and weird shapes. You can make it go straight, but it is NOT its design goal so you will not be happy with it in that role.

As a "general use jigsaw" the D-grip PSB300 is much much suitable than the Carvex is in my opinion.

EDIT:
The Carvex and Trion are complementary in uses cases and neither is an upgrade over the other.

Personally I do not see a point in a D-grip Carvex or a Barrel Trion. But the costs for Festool to offer both is negligible as most parts are the same, so why not I guess..

*) For precise work.

 

[afish]

You might have seen one of my posts.  I have had top or D handle jigsaws all my life.  Typically with just normal cutting from the top side the D handle works fine.  However if you ever need to cut from the underside such as coping trim, cutting scribes the D handle is absolutely horrible if you can do it at all.  I will also say I feel like I dont need to grip my barrel when just doing normal cutting from the top of a sheet.  My hand more less just rests on the saw guiding it along and if anything providing some downward force.  It takes very little effort as long as you are not trying to cut excessively fast. As far as the speed control mine has a variable speed dial with a on/off switch but I have never needed to vary the speed while cutting. 

jigsaw cope 

 

[FestitaMakool]

Remember, the D grip Carvex has identical body and switches on both sides as the barrel grip one. You get an additional D handle with an additional speed control trigger on the D handle model, no loss or either/or.
The two other switches are on/off with soft start ability only. So for upside down use they share the 2 body switches, clearly bypassing the D handles speed trigger.

If you go corded, and don’t need the accessories the Carvex brings, the Trion is a really nice alternative, and cheaper.

I’ve done upside down cutting when needed for 30 years, all with D handle, holding by the barrel... Its all preference, but D handle triggers are usually integrated as speed control as well - Beware: Some others makers models have just on/off!

 

[AlexThePalex]

I do not like the D grip because your hand is much higher up from the material you cut, leading to instability.

Barrel grip only for me. D grip does not exist anymore in my world.

 

[FestitaMakool]

They really do, Alex. They really do...:https://www.woodstep.nl/shop/gereed...=&utm_source=Admarkt&utm_medium=CPC&utm_term=

 

[AlexThePalex]

They really do, Alex. They really do...:https://www.woodstep.nl/shop/gereed...=&utm_source=Admarkt&utm_medium=CPC&utm_term=

You playing tricks on me, sending me to a blank webpage.  [tongue]

 

[FestitaMakool]

Nah.. forks fine!:https://www.marktplaats.nl/q/festool+psbc+carvex/

And there’s even a PSB 300 too.
https://www.marktplaats.nl/q/festool+trion+psb+300/#searchInTitleAndDescription:true

Now we know it’s three, mine and the two in The Netherlands! [big grin]
(Marktplaats comes up with ads from the Norwegian distributor, who has monopoly on Festool here - “Buy Festool from...” not gonna happen any time soon [eek])

 

[Yes]

Thanks for the replies!
I am wondering if the Trion is set for an update, they are on "clearance sale" at one of the large retailers here in Australia.
Festool Australia doesn't even sell PSB 420 EBQ Plus. Might be something new on the horizon.

I will be going cordless as I have two new 18v I got with my TID18/T18 kit.

I was watching Sedge last night - he is barrel guy too, but demonstrated that the D Grip can be easily used as a barrel grip by slipping your hand through the D opening. Seems like win/win for someone like me who wants the variable speed.

I do find it interesting how many don't want variable speed in a jigsaw though. To me, it's like not having variable trigger speed on a drill - you don't have to use it - but sure is nice when you do!

 

[Claimdude]

I had been a D handle user for years and decided to try the barrel grip carvex. My hand is medium to small size and the barrel is too large for me. I can use it but just do not have the manual control of it than I do the D handle AND I missed the variable speed trigger so I went back to the D handle carvex!

Jack

Thanks for the replies!
I am wondering if the Trion is set for an update, they are on "clearance sale" at one of the large retailers here in Australia.
Festool Australia doesn't even sell PSB 420 EBQ Plus. Might be something new on the horizon.

I will be going cordless as I have two new 18v I got with my TID18/T18 kit.

I was watching Sedge last night - he is barrel guy too, but demonstrated that the D Grip can be easily used as a barrel grip by slipping your hand through the D opening. Seems like win/win for someone like me who wants the variable speed.

I do find it interesting how many don't want variable speed in a jigsaw though. To me, it's like not having variable trigger speed on a drill - you don't have to use it - but sure is nice when you do!

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Thanks for the replies!
I am wondering if the Trion is set for an update, they are on "clearance sale" at one of the large retailers here in Australia.
Festool Australia doesn't even sell PSB 420 EBQ Plus. Might be something new on the horizon.

I will be going cordless as I have two new 18v I got with my TID18/T18 kit.

I was watching Sedge last night - he is barrel guy too, but demonstrated that the D Grip can be easily used as a barrel grip by slipping your hand through the D opening. Seems like win/win for someone like me who wants the variable speed.

I do find it interesting how many don't want variable speed in a jigsaw though. To me, it's like not having variable trigger speed on a drill - you don't have to use it - but sure is nice when you do!

Sure, you can grip the D handle saw somewhat like the barrel grip, but then you have lost that variable speed trigger that you say you wanted.
BTW, the barrel grip does have a variable speed knob, it's just not on a trigger. It's a rotary wheel that is near the back of the body itself.
I'm a barrel grip user myself. I had a corded Bosch D-handle for many years. I used it for more intense cuts, which became less often over time. I also had a Makita cordless that I kept closer at hand for quick little cuts without messing with a cord (and putting it back when finished) The Makita turned out to be the most disappointing jigsaw I ever used though. It was weak, heavy, and awkward.
The PS420 sitting in the Systainer right behind where I stand at the bench with the plug-it cable connectivity does better than both of the others. It is smoother and more powerful than the Bosch for the heavy stuff and lighter and more maneuverable and just as quick to deploy/return as the Makita.
One does both.

 

[Yes]

Thanks for the replies!
I am wondering if the Trion is set for an update, they are on "clearance sale" at one of the large retailers here in Australia.
Festool Australia doesn't even sell PSB 420 EBQ Plus. Might be something new on the horizon.

I will be going cordless as I have two new 18v I got with my TID18/T18 kit.

I was watching Sedge last night - he is barrel guy too, but demonstrated that the D Grip can be easily used as a barrel grip by slipping your hand through the D opening. Seems like win/win for someone like me who wants the variable speed.

I do find it interesting how many don't want variable speed in a jigsaw though. To me, it's like not having variable trigger speed on a drill - you don't have to use it - but sure is nice when you do!

Sure, you can grip the D handle saw somewhat like the barrel grip, but then you have lost that variable speed trigger that you say you wanted.
BTW, the barrel grip does have a variable speed knob, it's just not on a trigger. It's a rotary wheel that is near the back of the body itself.
I'm a barrel grip user myself. I had a corded Bosch D-handle for many years. I used it for more intense cuts, which became less often over time. I also had a Makita cordless that I kept closer at hand for quick little cuts without messing with a cord (and putting it back when finished) The Makita turned out to be the most disappointing jigsaw I ever used though. It was weak, heavy, and awkward.
The PS420 sitting in the Systainer right behind where I stand at the bench with the plug-it cable connectivity does better than both of the others. It is smoother and more powerful than the Bosch for the heavy stuff and lighter and more maneuverable and just as quick to deploy/return as the Makita.
One does both.

You do lose the variable speed of the D Grip when using it like a barrel grip - but that is no different than using the standard barrel grip.

If you look closely at the light blue handle portion of the barrel grip and the D Grip - they are very close ergonomically. In fact, I think the D Grip offers a more stable grip when used as a barrel grip tool as you can wedge your hand in a little and use the D Grip arch to anchor to the back of your hand. The D Grip also has the variable speed knob so no loss of function there.

Seems to me that you get a barrel grip option on the D Grip - but on the barrel grip you don't get the D Grip, nor the variable speed trigger.

Thank you for all the thoughtful replies - I will go with the added functionality of the D-Grip with the ability to use it pretty much exactly the same (ergonomically and functionally) as a barrel grip.

 

[FestitaMakool]

[member=75332]Yes[/member] - That’s a good summary.
As you point out too, with the D handle you can wedge your hand a little into the opening.
The different models and makes are different in that manner too. When I visited my foreign dealer, I tried both Carvex’s held upside down, and they feel the same. I have a 25-30 year old green Bosch D handle, and this is one of the best for me to hold upside down. I keep it still, as this corded model is the shortest and definitively smallest of my 4 jig saws. I do also have a new 12V CXT Makita (VJ06Z in the US) to go for my lighter duties. It is a great little D handle, short light and all - but my disappointment when I tested it for the first time: The switch is just start/stop! [mad] It has variable speed by dial, and an auto slow start as Carvex which speeds up  when it is feeling resistance. That’s quite ok, and saves the disappointment a bit, but huh [dead horse] Later I learned that Makita have had several complaints bringing this “bright new feature” to their jig saws, from professionals- well deserved critics to Makita in my book.
A Trion is on my to do list, selling and replacing my barrel grip Makita which is hanging upside down in the CMS-PS module. The Trion is basically a former Carvex, but with a tilt-able non exchangeable shoe. 

 

[FestitaMakool]

Well.. I just got my hands on a reasonably priced used PSB300 Trion.

What a disappointment. On a small detail that is: The trigger on the handle is just an on/off switch.. soft start yes, but no variable speed from the trigger. What a bummer. I was nearly 100% certain that the trigger allowed for varying the speed. Well, I’ll put it in the CMS table, sell the old corded Makita and get the newest D handle LXT 18V - at least, I KNOW that one has a variable speed trigger.

 

[derekcohen]

Well.. I just got my hands on a reasonably priced used PSB300 Trion.

What a disappointment. On a small detail that is: The trigger on the handle is just an on/off switch.. soft start yes, but no variable speed from the trigger. What a bummer. I was nearly 100% certain that the trigger allowed for varying the speed. Well, I’ll put it in the CMS table, sell the old corded Makita and get the newest D handle LXT 18V - at least, I KNOW that one has a variable speed trigger.

I am curious to know what advantage a variable speed makes? I have the barrel Trion but only use a jigsaw for removing curved waste, such as tables ...



.. or circles (where it is too difficult for a bandsaw) ...



If I need to be delicate or careful, I just go slower, use a fine tooth, and zero orbit. Are you suggesting that variable speed can improve a cut here?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Cheese]

Well.. I just got my hands on a reasonably priced used PSB300 Trion.

What a disappointment. On a small detail that is: The trigger on the handle is just an on/off switch.. soft start yes, but no variable speed from the trigger. What a bummer. I was nearly 100% certain that the trigger allowed for varying the speed. Well, I’ll put it in the CMS table, sell the old corded Makita and get the newest D handle LXT 18V - at least, I KNOW that one has a variable speed trigger.

One opinion & one observation.  [big grin]

I've always liked variable speed NOT being controlled by the trigger on any saw. That way I can just "dial" in the speed and fully pull the trigger until it hits the hard stop and the speed doesn't change.

I had a Milwaukee jig saw that had the "speed dial" mounted on the trigger. The idea was that the trigger had a hard stop but everything before the hard stop was variable speed. It was basically a variable trigger stop. An interesting idea but really poorly executed.

Now for the observation.  [smile]  Just noticed Festool no longer sells a corded Carvex, if you want a cord it's Trion only. I wonder how long that's been in effect?

 

[woodferret]

I've got a Ryobi D with variable speed.  Main use for that variable speed is the slow start into the wood, which the Carvex already does automatically.  It _IS_ useful if one's starting/stopping mid cut.  The Carvex is finicky to do that with, and definitely requires two hands on tool and a bit more concentration to ensure you're not widening the kerf.  But honestly, doing that on a variable trigger just leaves a rough cut anyways, so not much of a gain.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I think the main reason for variable speed, on a jig saw, is essentially the same as it is a track saw.
Most of the time, it will get used at full speed, but there are instances where slowing down is beneficial. Thicker/harder materials, like steel, fiberglass, Corian, 8/4 Maple, etc all react better to slower cutting speed and feed rate.