BC's KAPEX Problem

[ApgarConstruction]

I tried cutting several sized slivers with my 12" dewalt slider, beveled both ways,    several cuts, none of them flew out at me,  some jumped back a few inches slowly.  i kept the blade running and pull the piece i was cutting away from the blade and let off the trigger.    i have had a few fly out in the past but they always went backwards and never hit me or the saw,  NOR did they BREAK the SAW.
the kapex has issues if you can't make a cut like this without breaking something or hurting yourself.  shouldn't have to wear a face mask to bevel cut.  the answer of don't make cuts like this is stupid.  sometimes you have to make cuts like this. 

I don't work in a shop,  i setup my tools outside or inside a person's house 100% of the time and I can say, I'm hesitating to buy the kapex as my dewalt is getting older and I'd like a 10" saw in the arsenal of tools.  i'll be watching this thread along with the one at CT. 

this is my first post,  been a festool owners for a 4-5 years now and love my ct22 and TS75.  hindsight, i should have bought the 55, but I thought the 75 would be better.    still a great setup.

looking forward to more discussions over here at FOG.

 

[BCConstruction]

It's a lovely saw for sure and im sure it's a simple fix but it's finding that fix. Warner is going to try to find a method to stop this which is great. Im so supprised this was never caught in R&D my self!! But like you i love my CT33 and TS55. The systainers have also made life so much easier and neater.

 

[kosta]

my buddy BC over at contractor talk posted this today:

Kapex issues! any advice
Ok so i had my first day using the Kapex. 20 mins into using it and i smashed the guard and broke the saw. Not sure exactly what happened but i was cutting some 8x3/4 pine baseboard which i have cut with my Makita thousands of times and never had this problem. I was cutting the board flat and with the saw tilted at 45 degrees to the left and the first piece of wood i cut come shooting out the back of the saw. Thought to my self i must have done something wrong and checked all the settings again and checked blade was tight. Went to cut the same piece again and bang the piece i cut flys up and smashes the blade guard and spins it completely around, snaps a spring, covers my face in sharp plastic(lucky had safety's on) and nearly takes off my fingers in the process.

What seems to happen is the 1" wide piece that falls away as i cut seems to get it's self binded back up with the blade instead of falling out and away and then it throws it at unreal speed into what ever is in it's way. Spoke to festool and the dealer and neither have a clue why it's doing this.

Any tips on what im doing wrong

Any tips?
The cut-off is unsupported and all the forces are pulling the small piece back to the spinning blade.

Stop the piece from falling back.

A sacrificial board helps.
A holding jig helps.
Make your cut-off piece larger by taping the piece to another piece that is clamped to the table... helps.

This is a very common problem with all miter saws.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

my buddy BC over at contractor talk posted this today:

Kapex issues! any advice
Ok so i had my first day using the Kapex. 20 mins into using it and i smashed the guard and broke the saw. Not sure exactly what happened but i was cutting some 8x3/4 pine baseboard which i have cut with my Makita thousands of times and never had this problem. I was cutting the board flat and with the saw tilted at 45 degrees to the left and the first piece of wood i cut come shooting out the back of the saw. Thought to my self i must have done something wrong and checked all the settings again and checked blade was tight. Went to cut the same piece again and bang the piece i cut flys up and smashes the blade guard and spins it completely around, snaps a spring, covers my face in sharp plastic(lucky had safety's on) and nearly takes off my fingers in the process.

What seems to happen is the 1" wide piece that falls away as i cut seems to get it's self binded back up with the blade instead of falling out and away and then it throws it at unreal speed into what ever is in it's way. Spoke to festool and the dealer and neither have a clue why it's doing this.

Any tips on what im doing wrong

Any tips?
The cut-off is unsupported and all the forces are pulling the small piece back to the spinning blade.

Stop the piece from falling back.

A sacrificial board helps.
A holding jig helps.
Make your cut-off piece larger by taping the piece to another piece that is clamped to the table... helps.

This is a very common problem with all miter saws.

With all miter saws?There is no problems with DeWalt CSMS and Makita CSMS.

 

[kosta]

They all have the same problem. Believe me.  [scared]
Maybe not as big as the kapex but they do have the same problem.
I can't beleve that someone  likes to have the same problem twice.
The answer  to the known  and common problem is very simple.
we can take some of the above ideas to prevent any damages and accidents.

The answer?
Tape the cut-off to another piece of wood and use a zero clearance fence.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

They all have the same problem. Believe me.  [scared]
Maybe not as big as the kapex but they do have the same problem.
I can't beleve that someone  likes to have the same problem twice.
The answer  to the known  and common problem is very simple.
we can take some of the above ideas to prevent any damages and accidents.

The answer?
Tape the cut-off to another piece of wood and use a zero clearance fence.

Did you try it with the Kapex saw?Its helps?

 

[kosta]

I don't own the Kapex but I use the same idea, after a bad accident with my Bosch, with 100% results.
I see nothing to prevent the idea from working ...100% with the Kapex and other tools.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Is it same bad result with fence cutting or only with flat cutting?

 

[kosta]

Is it same bad result with fence cutting or only with flat cutting?

If the  cut-off piece is allowed to drop in the blade path,
same results with any tool and cut.

 

[mastercabman]

I did try to cut on the bevel to see if anything happen.I just use 1/2" plywood.I did not want to hurt myself or break the saw.I did not get any hard flying piece no matter how long it was.I know,there's a difference between 3/4" and 1/2",but i just wanted to see if the fall off piece got kick at all.Some did fly off but not like a missile!
I also tried to cut on my 8.5"Dewalt and i got some flying pieces.I did use 3/4" and the saw only bevel to the left.But nothing really hard.
I guess the saw behaves different from others and we just need to learn how to work with it.
But come to think about it,i have cut backsplashes on the bevel,and i never got anything like it.
If it does happen,i will report.

 

[BCConstruction]

Well i got my replacement saw yesterday and spent a bit of time going over the new saw with the dealer trying to figure out a fix for the Fence. I ended up going with a nylon Aux fence and partly solved the issue. I still have the problem of the wood getting caught by the blade but it smashed the wood into little pieces instead of large bits. I also noticed that if i taped the blade guard up out of the way i didn't get any issues with cutting when being used in combination with the Aux fence. It seems that the combination of poorly designed Fence and poorly designed blade guard was the cause of these problems.

Guard hitting material into blade

New aux fence setup

 

[Dan Clark]

BC,

That fence is a nice idea!  What is that material?    HDPE?  How thick?

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[Inner10]

So the bottom line is that the guard pushed the off-cut into the spinning blade launching the piece?

Solution is to cut the guard up a little higher so it doesn't push on the off-cut.

 

[Winchester]

I have had small pieces shoot out the back of my Hitachi, but never the problem BC is having.

At least you figured out the problem and a semi-solution

 

[BCConstruction]

BC,

That fence is a nice idea!  What is that material?    HDPE?  How thick?

Thanks,

Dan.

The sticker calls it says UHMW Sheet 1/2" x 4" x 48"

$25.99

Hope this helps

P.S only downside is the clamp wont fit with fence in place.

 

[Dan Clark]

BC,

That fence is a nice idea!  What is that material?    HDPE?  How thick?

Thanks,

Dan.

The sticker calls it says UHMW Sheet 1/2" x 4" x 48"

$25.99

Hope this helps

P.S only downside is the clamp wont fit with fence in place.

BC,

Thanks.  Not being able to use the clamp may be an issue.   I wonder is maybe 1/4 or 3/16" will work.  I'm going to give that a try.

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[chelseaboy]

A simple way that dose help,
is when you cut through hold the saw down and let the blade stop before lifting  [wink]

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

A simple way that dose help,
is when you cut through hold the saw down and let the blade stop before lifting  [wink]

In his defense the guard is pinching that little off cut.

It works fine with my ts-55 and my mft table. [big grin]

 

[Mirko]

I run my saw without the guard... solving 90% of my problems.... second, I installed some grip tape to the handle, now I can lower it with an open palm if I want... gives me more control and I stop focusing on holding a slipping handle and focus on the cut.

Mirko

 

[vlahtein]

If we can explain what has happened, it may help us to improve safety and avoid wrong conclusions about Kapex and SCMSs in general.

Perhaps we can assume that Kapex is more prone to the mentioned problem than some Makita saws... So what is different?

Thanks to WarnerConstCo for taking the time to take some photos! Hopefully he won't mind me altering one of them and using it for my post...

Same words again...
[attachthumb=#]

The arrow shows a gap that causes the off-cut to fall onto the blade anyway. You can see the same gap in the first picture from BCConstruction a few postings before. Is this gap bigger in Kapex than in Makita?

Additionally, at least in Makita 1013 and 1213 a work piece rests on a one-piece table. In Kapex a work piece is clamped against a side table that is never exactly level with a turning table. In my first Kapex the difference was quite big causing the work piece float over the turn table touching it only at the edge.
[attachthumb=#]
[attachthumb=#]

In addition to the moment just after a cut, perhaps it is relevant to consider what happens just before that. Perhaps things go wrong when the off-cut is suspended by the last fibers of wood. It is not supported from any side because of the gap to a throat plate. It vibrates with growing amplitude until it catches the blade. It could be better to finish the cut quite rapidly. I am not courageous enough to test it. L-profile cutting jig with a one-piece fence and one-piece bottom plate should correct the problem in that case.