Bed for the CMS system plates

[flagre]

After a lot of considerations with how to best utilize a Paulk Total Station I have finally settled on the fact that the modular CMS system should be exploited. In this way I can use this as a router plate (the router plate needs modifications to accept my DW625 with RZ lift, but that should be relatively easy), on-the-go band saw with the 420 or also table saw with good dust extraction using the TS and the overhead dust shroud. All this with one short Incra LS with some multi-purpose fence setup that drops into the holes with bench dogs etc. for portability and of course proper sliders on both sides. This does of course not mean that I am dropping a regular table saw etc., but it opens for the possibility of only bringing these tools around and even leaving the miter saw, keeping true to the modular concept.

Since I am not very confident in getting durability with a wood bed for the CMS plates. I am looking into milling one out of aluminium. I can later copy this for other projects or new tables. Also, I think this would improve the durability of calibration options. I thought I would air the idea here in order for you, if you want to comment or put me in another direction with respect to how one should design it. I have access to an industrial multi-axis CNC mill and okey knowledge to run it, so that is out of the way.

From the previous FOG discussions people have constructed beds by using tubing on each long side of the plate. This seems fairly compatible with the original CMS table construction, but leaves open questions about the best strategy for adjusting the height and pitch of these hooked into the sides of the alu bed. Maybe just threads into the rods and washers and screws on the outside of the bed. But, this is not very easy to adjust and I suspect it would need re calibration when the plate have been dropped in multiple times (weight of the tools, particularly the router is substantial). Maybe a better strategy is to use a ellipsoid unit with the rod running in a slot in this ellipsoid. This way the rod can be adjusted in height, but cannot move up or down, once the ellipsoid is locked. This can also be adjusted from the inside.

However, maybe the simplest approach would just be to mill a copy of the CMS table profile. Have anyone done exact measurements of the profile? Unfortunately I do not have easy access to a table.

Do you feel that the CMS plate could benefit from support also on the short side? How should this bed be made?

Thanks in advance for comments or suggestions.

 

[Bohdan]

The CMS system uses adhesive tape to adjust the height of the plate. It is placed on the underside of the module so adjusting the height with a fixed rod as a mounting is not a problem.

 

[flagre]

Thanks for the information. I did not know that. However, with the tape, don't one run the risk of pushing the plate down slightly, catching e.g. the back edge which can result in kickback etc? Maybe just an imaginary problem and one can possibly adapt the technique if this becomes a problem. Sorry for asking, but I have no experience with the CMS.

Anyone know the perfect dimensions for the rods and if short side support is necessary (might as well put it in if building from scratch). Is the CMS table designed so that one can flip the module (e.g. rod on both sides)?

 

[Woodwork Wizard]

Both long sides of the CMS table have the same profile. One side accepts the router table insert and the opposite side is for the table-saw module.  There's also locking cams to secure modules to the base that lock in to this profile.

 

[bertv]

The CMS-system is not a high tolerance one. In other words: it being foremost a system for changing tools within a common format, exactitude is not that important.

You will never achieve the exact tolerances of a dedicated table saw, dedicated router table, dedicated etcetera, with the CMS-modules.

IMO everything Festool does in the milling tools is in the range of .5 mm being achievable. Other trades consider that really coarse… but for woodworking it is exact enough. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Bohdan]

Short side support may be tricky as I think that the various modules vary in their dimensions (ribs or thickness) on the short side and I don't think that it is necessary but it could be done in the form of an adjustable screw sitting on a tab. The original tapes are actually placed at the lockdown clamps only and I have added some in other spots to lift or level the module when required.

 

[bkharman]

Why not just buy the 2-3 parts from Festool that are the pivot and catch sides of the CMS?  It would save you a lot of time, headache and maybe even some money. I love my CMS setup.

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[flagre]

Thanks for all the comments. Greatly appreciated.

Regarding accuracy: Sure, this is not of prime importance, mobility is. And yes, we are talking woodworking here. However, since the TS rides on a track on the module plate it will stay firmly in place, assuming you align everything (this also goes for workshop stuff). I also assume Festool machined the CMS to rather tight tolerances (compared to their other products, this seems to be the case). The remaining open question is to get a tight, repeatable and safe fixture of the cms module in a bed. I do not think the CMS plate can move with the current configuration in the CMS table once it is fixed and locked in place (anyone care to comment on this?). As long as the CMS insert is aligned to your sliders and LS fence aligned to this I do not really see the problem of getting both repeat ability and accuracy comparable to standard shop equipment (for sure not mounted in the PTS, since plywood is not dead enough, but in principle). But really I do not care about this too much for this setup. My concern was more with safety...e.g. if the work piece could catch on the backside due to taping for alignment and if this more of an imaginary problem. Does anyone have experience with this?

Regarding spare parts for the table: Yes, this is possible. I believe part number 446657 (UK) is the one that is needed. However, it is oddly shaped and not ideal to use as a compact bed for e.g. the PTS in my view. I can probably copy the profile if I buy one but they cost $100. Does anyone have these profiles lying around? I guess the measurement that I need is the diameter of the rod shape, the distance from both sides to some side of one rod and the depth from the topside down to the top of the rod. If anyone could measure this I would be really grateful.

Regarding short side: Thanks and noted. I've just ordered the CMS-PS and CMS-TS module for my saw and will inspect them when they arrive. I have concluded on making my own CMS plate for the router instead of modifying the Festool one. In this way I can easily integrate the RZ lift and woodpecker rings that with in their router plate. The centering rings for the CMS system seems a bit "iffy" to adapt to a general class of routers. Also, re-centering seems difficult for those routers which are out of alignment. But, for the users of the CMS, particularly with the TS, is there notably flex on the short sides if your work is "normal", e.g. some pressure applied to the material?

Thanks again!

 

[Bohdan]

I remember that somebody on the FOG had mounted the modules in a wooden plate and they gave the dimensions that you require but I can't find the thread.

Once the clamps are tightened the modules don't move.

I presume that you do not intend to use Festool routers so you want the Festool lift which I think is the best part of the router module, the fence is good but a PITA to use. I have replaced mine with an Incra fence which sits on dogs on an adjacent MFT. The rings are only just acceptable so I have learnt to live with them. I don't see the problem about re-centering and have not noticed any flex even when I use a power feed on mine.