Bench for handtool and Festool use ?

[NuggyBuggy]

I just started getting interested in woodworking with hand tools.

I have a couple of MFT/3s, but realize they are far from ideal for hand tool work.  I'd rather not build or buy a traditional bench as I have a pretty - make that VERY - small space, so I was thinking about building a bench that could serve double-duty for work with handtools but also work with some of the Festool clamps and such.

I think Timtool's bench (http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/my-sysport-workbench/msg159869/#msg159869) was the closest to that sort of thing that I've seen.

Not knowing much about hand tools yet, is there any reason why a hand tool bench couldn't also serve well as a platform for some Festool applications ? I realize that some of them would require the aluminum extrusions which wouldn't work well with a traditional bench.  If I'm willing to forego the side extrusions, what functionality might I lose ? Is there some critical piece of the puzzle I'm missing here ?

Any pointers, links, or ideas would be greatly appreciated.  I do have Schwarz's book.

 

[Steve R]

Not sure why the MFT/3 is an issue. the MFT for the Kapex is lower and I find it better for many things that I need/ want at lower height.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey NuggyBuggy!
What type of hand tool work are you looking at - handplanes, carving, handsaws, chisels, all the above?

Is the issue with the MFT the height or the lack of stability for handplaning (strong horizontal forces)?  Different solutions are available for the two issues.

In the back of my mind (pretty dark and empty place) I have been thinking about making an MFT without the legs that could be attached/clamped to the top of a more traditional workbench - sorta the best of both worlds.  An extension to that might be a basic workbench (2x4s) fastened to a wall and different tops you could attach - one for Festoolery and another for more traditional uses. 

Here's an example of a benchtop bench.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

There are some threads about reinforcing MFT/3's....Specifically by bolting them to the wall through the rear extrusion.  Another thought is to build a heavy cabinet base and bolt your mft's down to it.

I also think it is good to keep an open mind about alternative types and methods of hand tool work.  The Japanese for instance work on the ground using a small beam and their feet as clamps.  I'm not saying you should do the same, just that you don't need a huge bench to work with hand tools.  You do need a stable surface though, that is where the MFT falls somewhat short. 

 

[semenza]

Hey NuggyBuggy!
What type of hand tool work are you looking at - handplanes, carving, handsaws, chisels, all the above?

Is the issue with the MFT the height or the lack of stability for handplaning (strong horizontal forces)?  Different solutions are available for the two issues.

In the back of my mind (pretty dark and empty place) I have been thinking about making an MFT without the legs that could be attached/clamped to the top of a more traditional workbench - sorta the best of both worlds.  An extension to that might be a basic workbench (2x4s) fastened to a wall and different tops you could attach - one for Festoolery and another for more traditional uses. 

Here's an example of a benchtop bench.

Hi,

The MFT has little feet for use with the legs folded. I have used it on floors and on top of other work tables. No need to attach it.

So NuggyBuggy I think a more traditional bench  could be built  sized to hold your two MFTs. Just set them on top when you want to use them.

Seth

 

[PaulMarcel]

My MFT-1080 sits on top of a set of legs and the back is clamped to a wall.  It could be more stable for planing if it was attached in both back rear corners, but I only have one as the other doesn't have any wall behind it.  I routinely plane on it.  You don't get to use the traditional hold-downs as the MFT top isn't thick enough, but the clamping elements work great as do some half-height Qwas dogs I special ordered  [cool]

With the table under the 1080, it is at the same height as an MFT/3.  I like this height for planing, but that's a personal preference.

 

[NuggyBuggy]

Hey NuggyBuggy!
What type of hand tool work are you looking at - handplanes, carving, handsaws, chisels, all the above?

Is the issue with the MFT the height or the lack of stability for handplaning (strong horizontal forces)?  Different solutions are available for the two issues.

Jesse,

I'm just getting started with hand tools - but I imagine I'd be doing work with hand planes, saws, and chisels.  I have a few of these tools already.

I understood that the MFT was not nearly stable enough for a lot of handtool work - sawing and planing, for instance.  I've never done either, yet.  I don't think I'd want to bolt my MFT to the wall.  I'm a shorter guy, 5'7", and I'm thinking that the MFT/3 might be a little high to do some hand work as well - it'd be harder to get over a piece of wood.  I'd be interested in seeing what some of the solutions would be.

I did built a workbench - not a cabinetmaker's bench - when I first started woodworking.  This thing is solid as a rock, but the table is too thick for the typical Festool hold-downs and clamps to go through.  And combined with one MFT (my other one is usually folded up), they cut into a lot of my workspace.

After I posted, I realized this might be one reason why my idea might not work so well - to tie into the Festool system of hold downs, the table top can't be too thick.  But if it isn't thick, the bench might not offer as much weight and/or stability ?

In the back of my mind (pretty dark and empty place) I have been thinking about making an MFT without the legs that could be attached/clamped to the top of a more traditional workbench - sorta the best of both worlds.  An extension to that might be a basic workbench (2x4s) fastened to a wall and different tops you could attach - one for Festoolery and another for more traditional uses. 

Here's an example of a benchtop bench.

My idealized bench was an all-in-one that could server both masters, but if that's unfeasible, this is a good fall-back.... I could keep my MFT folded up and then plop it on top when I need the functionality. 

Thanks guys for the food for thought !

 

[CDM]

I use my MFT/3 for many hand-sawing tasks.  My main saws are a Marples two-piece ryoba and a Stanley FatMax coping saw, with a recently-added Z dozuki awaiting a full workout.  The target boards get clamped to the MFT/3 top or to a side rail, with sacrificial boards if there's a chance of unwanted cuts into MFT/3 parts.  Usually I sit in an old adjustable office chair and hold the saw vertically with two hands, cutting with a downward pull.

There are several advantages to this approach for me.  Sitting, I can saw for a long time in a comfortable position at a comfortable height.  I can also saw for a long time without getting tired.  Gravity and my body mass work for me in making the cut, and what effort remains gets split evenly between my arm muscles.  The way I and the saw are positioned lets me observe the blade and the kerf from very close range during the entirety of every pull, which adds a lot of control to the cut. 

And my Festool vice is just a couple of Quick Clamps, though my wife and bank statement say otherwise.

 

[fidelfs]

I am in the design process to something similar.  I am a hobbiest woodworker and work in my garage.  If you see my signature you will see that i like hand tools.
I built a worbech for hand tools out of construction 12x2 and rip them to size.  It is big and heavy.  The real state is limited in my garage so I decided to combine the Mft and the work bench.

My plan is to have a custom base with the 20mm homes using my LR32 system, this legs and thinking to have a small section for the Vise something similar at the bech showed by Jesse.

Fidel

 

[Mudsplat]

If you are at all serious then buy this book.  It will open your eyes:

Workbench Book

You might also want to check out some of the posts in the handtool forum over at woodnet.net.

 

[kfitzsimons]

Fidel, I agree with Mudsplat, read the workbench book before you buy the legs. You'll be losing a lot of functionality by using the cast iron legs. In short, the legs should be flush with the top of your bench so you can use the for clamping options.