Bent's Channel

[smorgasbord]

...especially Ishitani Furniture, Blacktail Studio, Foureyes Furniture, and Darrell Peart, etc.
Most of the time I don't care if I'm learning anything, as even seeing how well or badly someone is using a tool, or doing something, is still somewhat a learning experience.

I've dropped Blacktail Studio from my viewing. His projects are repetitive, and his self-learning has him offering a "class" that tells you to use every grit from 80 to 180. Yeah, that's 80, 100, 120, 150, and 180, which is a waste of time, sandpaper, and wood. He probably heard "don't skip grits" and interpreted it incorrectly, which is fine if that's what he wants, but he shouldn't teach that to other people. He also uses the internet fav Rubio without a respirator, with that accelerator which is quite toxic (contains isocyanate), which Rubio goes to great pains to hide. You can use Rubio without the accelerant if you're willing to wait longer for it to dry, which YTers never are, but that's the way to avoid the toxicity.

Foureyes teamed up with Lincoln St to offer a pay-for class for newbie woodworkers. I have no idea how good or bad it is - their videos seem OK if you're their target audience. Although Foureyes is now selling their own 2-part hard-wax oil finish. Heck, even Blacktail is selling his own branded ceramic overcoat. Apparently, it's pretty straightforward to create your own finish from commonly available chemicals. That's what the old-timers did.

I inherited my parent's Nakashima dining room and bedroom furniture (no, they weren't rich, they bought in the 1960's), and yet without iron C-channels, no epoxy fillers, and a plain old pure tung oil finish, that table remains flat and has held up well over the decades of literal everyday use. I remember as a 9 year old or so playing around in his showroom while my parents met with George Nakashima himself to pick out a board and size the furniture. I must have gotten rowdy as my Mom grabbed my arm to calm be down so I wouldn't wreck anything, but he put his hand out and said it was OK. I later read in his books that "Kevinizing" added character to his solid wood pieces. I do wish I had been able to meet him again later in my life - growing up with his furniture both spoiled me for store-bought furniture as well as inspired me to take up woodworking as a hobby.

 

[ChuckM]

This thread has dredged up the memory of when an "expert" was someone who had the chops (both in their area of expertise and in communication skills) to sell themselves to a publisher...and then follow up publication with an acceptable level of book sales.

James Krenov, Frank Klaus, Sam Maloof and Tage Frid for examples.

Books, or for that matter, printed materials? They're dying...look at the folding of Woodcraft and Woodworker's Journal (and The Woodworker, over 100 years old, across the pond) in 2024.

Video stimulation is the only way advertisers will invest in. Gen Z, Alpha and Beta consumers -- wired almost since born -- who have less and less attention span for written words, will drive the world. If something can't fit into a smartphone, it's doomed to die, and we know how harder it is to read an artilce on the phone screen.

 

[smorgasbord]

James Krenov, Frank Klaus, Sam Maloof and Tage Frid for examples.

The originals, so great.

I loved Tage Frid's story about trying to get started in the US. IIRC, he somehow got hired at RISD (Rhode Island School of Design), but his English was so bad that the other instructions just blew him off and left him alone. Realizing he was going to have figure out a way to make money, he decided to build a table, which he completed in that one day. When the other instructors came back and saw what he did in just a day, they decided it was worth putting up with the language barrier.

In the early 1990s a couple friends and I got together to watch a rented Frank Klaus VHS on dovetailing drawers. When Klaus pulled out a piece of pine to make the drawers we all shouted at the TV how easy pine was to cut compared to the oak we were trying to use!

Apparently, lots of hobbyists reached out to Klaus to be his apprentice, but he claims none of them ever worked out. My guess is Klaus had a serious work ethic and a very specific way of doing this, handed down to him by his father. For Klaus, dovetailing drawers wasn't for looks, but for strength. Krenov was probably appalled at Klaus' dovetails, lol.

As for Sedge, either I've gotten used to his style or he's changed it a bit. The Festool Live videos (maybe just the early ones?) always seemed too hyped up for me, but his own channel's videos recently seem to me less so, and his response to comments in his videos is often quite good. He definitely knows his Festool tools, so always good tips on usage from him on those.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Video stimulation is the only way advertisers will invest in. Gen Z, Alpha and Beta consumers -- wired almost since born -- who have less and less attention span for written words, will drive the world. If something can't fit into a smartphone, it's doomed to die, and we know how harder it is to read an artilce on the phone screen.

It isn't the media, it's the lack of barriers to entry. Absolutely anyone can declare themselves an expert on absolutely anything on YouTube. For example, I recently traded vehicles. In researching the Honda Ridgeline, I naturally started watching YT videos. The range of available information was staggering, but much of it was AI generated drivel, some even delivered by AI voiceover and all paced to keep you thinking they would get to the point in just another moment. At least we're not seeing much of the AI scripting in woodworkng...yet.

 

[Rutabagared]

Hey, Sedge is just being Sedge.  He has a very serious side and in conversation will try to explain how to do something at the level of the asker.  In other words he will listen then give advice.  When you get him in front of a crowd he gets excited doing demoing and teaching and is like a Labrador puppy.  Except he doesn't get so excited that he pees on the floor.  He does believe that learning should be fun and he tries to practice that.  He does not believe droll presentations.  I wish that in person training would make a come-back so that more people could meet Sedge and also Brent in person and pick up the tidbits of info that come out naturally when in person.

Peter

Amen, Peter.  I was in that first "pilot group" with you at Festool HQ in Lebanon way back in the day.  Sedge is just as you describe.  I enjoy his YouTube videos and subscribe to his channel.  For those who prefer a more subdued, less enthusiastic, or more pedestrian approach, I can see where Sedge may come on a bit strong.  But I prefer his enthusiasm and energetic style.

Keep up the good work, Sedge!

 

[festal]

I like Sedge and his videos.  You just have to get use to his voice   but i did learn a lot from watching his videos both festool ones and his own channel.

 

[Joelm]

But I guess I'm no longer their target audience.  Makes me wonder who is?

The advertisers. They keep an eye on several metrics, including total subscriber count, number of views, number of comments, etc. They even get into the details of how long viewers stay. Watching to the end is much better, especially if there is product placement. Even if the host does not mention something, just the fact that it is on camera matters.

In another life I used to make commercials and had to work with ad agencies. I totally get the metrics thing, it was the same for print and broadcast except now, as you explained, advertisers can get crazy detailed analytics.

Just wondering what happens when crazy titles and clickbait stop working on viewers. When no one is seeing the ads that advertisers pay for they will go find those eyes elsewhere. My point is the channels that have jumped the shark and put our pointless videos... "I just tried 5 tik tok hacks" or "I just bought a pallet of returned HD tools".

 

[Packard]

The YouTube videos that I like the best are tightly edited.  Many of the videos I see are not.  So a 20 minute video that was tightly edited, might be just 8 or 9 minutes long.

So are those tightly edited videos less profitable because they are short?  The longer ones annoy me as they seem to say, “Your time is not valuable, so we are leaving a lot of talking heads and repetitious steps in place.”

 

[peter halle]

The YouTube videos that I like the best are tightly edited.  Many of the videos I see are not.  So a 20 minute video that was tightly edited, might be just 8 or 9 minutes long.

So are those tightly edited videos less profitable because they are short?  The longer ones annoy me as they seem to say, “Your time is not valuable, so we are leaving a lot of talking heads and repetitious steps in place.”

I watched this video the other day and it talks in part about the Youtube business: 


Peter

 

[cpw]

I do watch Sedge's videos; and I think he is great in the comments section.  I think the videos from his own channel are better than Festool live. For Festool live, there is a lot of information; but I have to skip the introductory material and watch it at double speed to really make it worth the time investment.  There are often nuggets in both that help.

I don't begrudge Youtubers with fancy shop machines.  I have a fancy shop machines (FS41e, Sawstop, MM16, Oneida V-3000) and a wall of Festool.  I started with smaller tools; but as you get more into it upgrading makes sense.  If I had the shop space, I am sure I would also have a shaper and slider.  The space is much more expensive in my area than the tools; and can't be purchased incrementally.

I do think there are a lot of people out there who are doing infomercials.  Even Sedge's most recent video on the Grex pinner or True Position fall into that category.  On the other hand, I love my TP cabinet jig.  There are some people that you believe actually like the product's they are hawking and others who will clearly do anything for a buck.

My favorite channels are Matt Cremona, Marc Spagnulo, Essential Craftsman, and Stud Pack.  I think they have all carefully cultivated an image of honesty and integrity; which hopefully is genuine.

I've learned a lot from Youtube; and if nothing else it is a good alternative to TV.  Even with all the streaming services it can still feel like there are "57 Channels and Nothing On".

For Dovetails in particular, I watched tons of Youtube videos and spent more than it would have cost to just buy a Leigh D4R on stones, chisels,  saws, etc. in the end of 2023 and beginning of 2024.  The best instruction ended up being live at a woodworking show with Chuck Bender and his follow-up DVD.  His technique for over cutting the pins and how he chopped it out was different than any of the others I saw on Youtube and worked much better for me.  I finished my set of nightstands with hand cut dovetails in June and that both my wife and I were happy enough did give me a sense of accomplishment.

 

[luvmytoolz]

For my job I often need to research obscure software/hardware faults, and it's very frustrating that 99% of the relative info on Youtube is usually not much more than wild guesses, or inconclusive results along the lines of "I held my finger this way and it worked". So I treat it simply as a data aggregator most of the time, taking the average as a rough guide.

Having said that, I do love chilling occasionally with a beer or three, and zoning out with anything from smelting, metalworking and resin/woodworking. For the latter especially Ishitani Furniture, Blacktail Studio, Foureyes Furniture, and Darrell Peart, etc.

For those into metalworking Oxtoolco is great along with Abom79, Keith Fenner, and of course TubalCain, and Clickspring is a special delight!

Most of the time I don't care if I'm learning anything, as even seeing how well or badly someone is using a tool, or doing something, is still somewhat a learning experience.

And I don't really care what tools or machines are used, as I enjoy watching the processes people come up with, and it's always good to help build up a meaningful idea of how useful a particular tool will be. I watched practically every video there was on the Zeta, to determine how good a fit it would be before buying one. Happy to say it's well exceeded my expectations.

Some though I really struggle with, almost anything with Sedge despite his obvious skills and experience is unfortunately in that category for me. I just can't warm up to the likes of videos like that.

So now we are going after Sedge?  Holy Cow, who's next?  Vince the Sham-wow pitchman? Come on guys, leave Sedge alone; he is the face of Festool and I really like his videos

I didn't want to sledge Sedge and actually felt a bit bad writing that as I know he's very passionate, and I greatly admire passion exhibited in anyone's field of interest, it's just the occasional over the top 3 Stooges style treatment most of the videos have that I can't warm up to in that sort of content. It's probably a me thing though! ;-)

 

[onocoffee]

Before I comment, I should preface that I have run a YouTube channel for the past five years - though I wouldn't categorize myself as a "successful YouTuber" since my subscriber numbers are rather pedestrian for the amount of time that I've been on the platform.

ChuckS mentioned about the YouTuber who seemed to be padding his video. Yes, he most certainly is. The reason why is because YouTube will drop more ads in the middle of your video if it exceeds 8 minutes in runtime - meaning that you can make more AdSense revenue from that video. 7:58? Sorry, Charlie. Your video gets one ad run. 8:00? Cha-ching!

And the longer the video, the more ads YouTube can run. And, as a viewer, it's outta hand. In the days of network broadcast, a half hour sitcom would run 22 minutes with 8 minutes for ads, station IDs and whatever else the network wanted to throw in front of you. With YouTube, you get ads every video - regardless of length. I find it kinda maddening.

Which is why, for my own videos, I keep the runtime as short as possible. Only as long as necessary. Well, except the livestreams - those can be long-winded.

In the niche that I talk about on YouTube, I'm an industry veteran. In woodworking, I'm a neophyte who's interested in learning and hearing from a range of people - even if their levels of expertise may not encompass the number of years I've been in the field in mine. Which is actually why I enjoy coming to this forum - because I think that this forum is filled with actual working professionals with decades of field experience and the casual aplomb about the craft that only someone with a lot of experience possesses (was that too many esses?).

For me, I try to find balance between the information on YouTube and the discussions here. In many ways, I'll weight the discussions here heavier because of the reasons above. Take the recent discussion on the track saw kickback. You guys looked at it for a moment and knew why it happened and how to correct.

As a YouTuber, I try to remember that the people who watch my videos do not have the time in the field that I do. They're mostly home enthusiasts with a shared interest but different perspective - and a perspective that does not necessarily match my own. They like the new gear and all the New Darling things in the marketplace. I'm like: "Bah, you don't need that shit." But I have to remember that I have decades of experience that they do not have and must tailor my approach - doesn't mean I change my position, just remember to frame it with their perspective in mind.

And I think a number of the woodworking YouTubers do a very good job at this. It may get repetitive at times and I may not groove with all the creators, but that's to be expected. You might find Sedge's Maine/New England accent to be grating (and having spent a lot of time in Boston, I kinda do), but there are other creators that you might find a groove with (though to be honest, I don't watch much, if any, of the YouTubers in my niche - because I'm a bit curmudgeonly about my industry).

But as a newbie, I find Sedge's videos to have been incredibly informative and helpful in my journey. And while it may be available elsewhere, his tips on Domino techniques, how to hold the hoses on the TS55, how to hold the RO150, and a lot of the other stuff he talks about on Festool Live, SedgeTool, and that no longer running Festool Shop Talk (I wish that would continue) is incredibly helpful to those with lesser amounts of experience. And yes, he does have an exuberance about him - but I like his excitement and passion for sharing and teaching. And I get it when you say that he's a bit much on Festool Live, but have you ever seen other nations' Festool Lives? I just saw Festool Live Belgium yesterday and I gotta say that maybe I'm just too used to Sedge, Minnie, The Unit, Garrett and Big D, but the other Festool Live was a bit droll to watch.

 

[woodferret]

I find the AUS festool is probably the best to get you started with a tool.  The DE one is good for oblique uses, as they also have a wider set of experienced specialties.  UK is good for pre-purchase demo.  They're all to the point in their own ways.  Festool USA seems more like a home shopping channel.

I find Sedge (Tools) okay, but it's more edutainment when he's teaching Big-D or the audience.  I still watch the Festool Live, but fastforward through a lot of the shenanigans and like most others, find his persona there rather grating at times.  Although there are nuggets in there, which is why I keep watching.

 

[peter halle]

Although we will continue to see Big D in reruns, Big D is no longer with Festool.  I asked the question after I hadn't seen him on the episodes a while back.  I did not ask any other questions.

Peter

 

[luvmytoolz]

What was Big D's role at Festool? I always just assumed he was part of the video crew that ended up getting put in front of the camera?

 

[ChuckM]

YouTube wise, I download a lot of movies or vidoes cuz there're no ads in them. When I watch stand-up comedies (e.g. Max Amini) online, there seem to be no ads at the begining, in the middle (the worst) or at the end. Are technically oriented videos a different animal?

Festool Live videos? Sorry, they're way way too long with too many fillers for me, and for the two that interested me (domino joiner and kapex) plus the few well-edited projects by Brent(sp.?), I downloaded them and fastforwarded ... viewing in essence maybe no more than 10 minutes out of a 40-minute video (more for the edited project videos). I always treat any long videos (anything over 10 mins) that way. And I never subscribe to anyone or any channel.

 

[John T.]

It is interesting to hear all the perspectives in this thread.

I don't care for Bent's videos. But, I find most of the youtube woodworkers to be pretty obnoxious and there are probably half a dozen that I have blocked from my recommendations. Some of the worst offenders are just pure click bait.

I've really been enjoying Ishitani Furniture and New Yorkshire Workshop who don't speak over the video. It's just videos of them making interesting unique projects and they're good to watch or just have on in the background.

 

[luvmytoolz]

[member=76715]ironchefboyardee[/member] Ishitani Furniture is one of my favourites, and a pure joy to watch!

I could watch that skim planer of his all day long, what a sensational machine!

Exceptional channel in my opinion.

 

[onocoffee]

[member=75933]luvmytoolz[/member] They talked about how Big D came to be in the videos. If I recall correctly, he came to work at Festool to do something with their IT or social media. I think he was the one switching in the Festool Lives. Evidently, Big D told Sedge that he didn't really know how to use the Domino that he had gotten while working there, so Sedge started including him to help teach him about the Domino and everything else that happened in the videos. They would shoot on Sundays at Sedge's house when Big D and Chris could come over and make the videos.

As you can surmise, I've watched a lot of Sedge and his videos...

 

[peter halle]

Big D had a role in social media for Festool.  I believe he, like many at Festool, was not into woodworking at all when he started there.  But he developed an interest and then...

Peter