Bessey Revo KR vs new KRE

[semenza]

Personally, as in for me,  I don't see the new features as being that big a benefit. The anti-slide would be nice once in a while. As for adding more force more easily I could see the benefiting some, but I can get all I need and then some without any problem on both older models. I would probably end up using the hex key and overdoing it.

Seth

 

[sancho57]

I need to pick up a couple more 30" clamps after todays glue up. The 60" were to big, they worked fine but to big as the project was 28" long

 

[David Abbott]

I don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but I have a question. I watched a Bessey video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFCStAVbU9w) showing how the variable head can be moved. Seems to me the new head has a lot of play in it, and that it rocks back and forth when you apply sideways pressure on it. Doesn't that compromise its ability to stay perpendicular to the rail and parallel to the other jaw? If that's the case, the clamp loses its biggest attraction of staying square under pressure. I really do want to like this clamp, looks like the best on the market, but am I sacrificing squareness for versatility?

 

[Michael Kellough]

I can’t compare particular models but squareness of the head is also related to the length of the bar. A long bar will bend when tightened.

 

[TinyShop]

I note the less than confidence-boosting wobbliness evident in the vario head.

I also had to chuckle how the presenter fails to justify the premium price that every North American retailer I've come across is charging for these clamps relative to the comparable fixed-head version. This makes no sense to me. After all, the only difference between the variable-head version and the fixed-head version (aside from the former requiring less in terms of assembly) is a slightly more complicated head. Can that really account for the ~20% up-charge over the amount a comparable fixed-head version is being sold for?

Relative Pricing for a KREV40 and KRE40 - two examples

Bessey (via Amazon): $78.99 versus $61.99  [21.5% upcharge]
Acme:                      $85.99 versus $69.99  [18.6% upcharge]

I'd show more but there are so few online retailers in N.A. selling the Vario models that its a pointless exercise. Also, why are 4-packs available (usually containing either a couple rail connectors or two sets of rail blocks) of the KRE's but never bulk packs of the KREV's? And why has the roll-out of the upgraded versions of the fixed- and vario-head k body clamps been such an ongoing disaster? I mean, most retailers out there are still displaying images of the predecessor clamps (often with the new version model names accompanying them). How is Bessey managing to actually sell any of these clamps? What a mess.

 

[David Abbott]

Well, I just got back from Rockler's where I picked up six KRE 3550 (50 inch, fixed head) at $47.99 each. I just couldn't see spending $86 each for the 40 inch Varios, especially when I have doubts about the rigidity of the movable "fixed" head. Bessey does sell the variable head (KRE-VO) by itself as an accessory, maybe someday I'll buy one and try it out. Amazon sells it for $23. I could buy it and still pay less total than the $86, and the clamp would be longer, and I'd have an extra head and pads!

 

[bargr]

I realize this thread is dated, but offer this perspective. As with many woodworkers, there are a variety of opinions and perspectives based on experience and the specific task.  My opinion: I prefer the old Bessey K-body clamps vs. the KREs.

The reason for this is the smooth motion (unrestricted) of the movable jaw verses the new KRE with too much restriction/friction.  In many clamping setups, the work pieces to be clamped are in a marginal unstable state until set with clamps.  The unrestricted movement of the sliding jaw allow for ease of slide adjustment without moving the work piece or setup.  Many times when clamping raise panel doors on KP Blocks, the clamps are just sitting in the blocks - with the KRE adjusting the clamp jaws disturbs the setup.  The extra friction on the New KRE requires two hands to move a single jaw.  Can it be done? - yes, but there is no need for this unless a vertical clamping operation. but in most cases, I still prefer the easy movable jaw in vertical clamping operations.

There are many other clamping operations where I prefer the ease of movable jaw.  I have over 40 K-body clamps and always reach for the old K-body clamps first.

Final Note: when the new KRE came out there was a manufacturing flaw in the fixed head drilling for the two pins.  The head was an 1/8" out of square.  This was on every clamp in my Rockler order.  I contacted Bessey and the Engineering department knew just what the problem was and told customer service to replace them all. Great Company - That stands behind their product.

 

[semenza]

[member=77696]bargr[/member]

I don't think I have any of the newest KRE, but I will have to see and check for square. Thanks for pointing this out.

Just to be clear ....  Are you comparing first gen K Body to the third gen KRE? Or second gen REVO to third KRE?

    This may be a different issue than what you describe on the KRE ..... On my REVOs removing the black jaw cover takes care of the excess friction on the head slide. I think that filing the slot that fits around the bar a bit might also take care of the excess friction. Haven't bothered to try it.

Seth

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have run into both of these issues. I got a couple of the (out of square) units, in the 24" length. I took them back to the Home Depot where I got them, no problem.
The black slip covers are a mixed blessing. They are tight on the rails, which makes them harder to slide than the older version, but they are also removable/replaceable if damaged. It also seems to help with glue removal. They also gives you a connection point for the angle adapters.
I have had Bessey clamps for a long time. My oldest ones actually had wooden handles. You could see the progression of changes over time with the ones I had before the fire. The oldest ones (wood handles) the next version had the same narrower clamp faces, but the newer plastic handles. Then came the ones with the black covers. They also came with the "stand-off" clips attached to the bar.
I like those clips, but I don't use them in all situations, so I take them off and store them in a drawer.
When I started buying new ones (after the fire) was when I found out that the newer ones don't fit in all of the commercially available wall racks. This wasn't a problem before because I could mix the narrow ones in and it worked.
I do have some of the Vario version, but not really because I was looking for them specifically. The dealer where I made my first big volume purchase after the fire gave me a very good price on them. I think he had them for a while, and they weren't selling, but I would bet that it was as much about the size as the Vario feature. They were the 98", 78" and 60" versions. These are rather pricey to start with, then the Vario option adds to that. I didn't really care one way or the other, so I took them.
The work just as well as the solid ones, never an issue for me.
The problem I see with sanding or filing the black covers is that the part you would have to remove is also the part that keeps them from falling off.
I think I have about 40 of them total and a few of the Jr ones too. I like them too, even though some are critical of them. There are times when the smaller/lighter ones are handy. I only have them in the 18" length.

 

[bargr]

[member=77696]bargr[/member]

I don't think I have any of the newest KRE, but I will have to see and check for square. Thanks for pointing this out.

Just to be clear ....  Are you comparing first gen K Body to the third gen KRE? Or second gen REVO to third KRE?

    This may be a different issue than what you describe on the KRE ..... On my REVOs removing the black jaw cover takes care of the excess friction on the head slide. I think that filing the slot that fits around the bar a bit might also take care of the excess friction. Haven't bothered to try it.

Seth

Hi Seth,
I tried to post a reply on same day you posted, but system showed an error.  sorry for the delay…was waiting to see if it went through.

To answer your question, the KRs were purchased in 2012 timeframe.  the KREs were purchased in July, 2019 from Rockler.  the order included units of 24", 31", and 40" and all had the square issues.

Thanks for the tips on the friction issues.  but did remove the black plastic glue protector and it run free on the bar alone.  The friction is either in the red plastic or the mechanism.

Both are great clamps, just prefer the KR. and unlike others, would drive to HD to replace the KRE with the older KR if I had the option.  just sayin...

Update: just purchased 4 more KRE3-550 (50” K-BODY) from Home Depot this week.  All are out of Square with the fixed jaw angle to bar being acute.  Bessey does not want to warrantee these saying it is normal.  I did find out from them that all KREs are put together (some parts made as well) in China. Although they claim the acute angle is normal at rest and under pressure, they come together square, this is not true from my testing and measurements. So they are all going back to Home Depot.

it appears the Pictures of these new KREs is causing problems, so will post without for now.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Whether it is related or not, I can't be sure, but the only ones I ever had trouble with came from Home Depot. They were cheaper (quite a bit) than the other sources. Maybe they buy the rejects (seconds) from Bessey directly?
The bad ones I bought were out of square the other way. Obtuse

 

[Michael Kellough]

Obtuse is always bad.
Acute is okay when the bar is longer than 24".
The longer the bar the more it bends so even more acute is okay.

 

[bargr]

Obtuse is always bad.
Acute is okay when the bar is longer than 24".
The longer the bar the more it bends so even more acute is okay.

I know what you mean, but it depends on if the bar will flex.  When clamping cabinets together and the bar rests on the box, no flex can occur.  Also, these Bessey bars do not flex much.  So I say Acute is sometimes worse than obtuse when it racks the parts inward.  The only way to combat this Acute problem is to back off the bar from the parts so only the outer 1" of the clamp jaws are in contact.
I just glued up a set of Euro style cabinets and the Acute KRE clamps from Home Depot pressed in the sides so much, they were bowed in.  The result was a gap on the outer edge of the boxes at the joints.

If I could post pictures, I would show you how bad these New China made KREs are.  I'm pretty much done with Bessey, as their quality is downhill.

Bessey VP of Marketing just rejected my warrantee claim...even after I provided clear pictures of the Problems.  This group buys Festool for quality German engineering.  Bessey is no longer that.  Bessey reps told me that bars are made in Gernany, but the rest of the parts are made in India and/or China.  All are assembled in China.  Below are some picture to illustrate the problems with overly acute angles in a long fixed jaw.

----------------------------

[attachimg=2]
The above image shows the effect of the Acute angle on the fix jaw under clamping pressure.  The cabinet being glued shows a noticeable uneven glue joint.  You can see an air gap above as well indicating the acute angle jaw is never zeroed out to square.
[attachimg=3]
The above image is another example of the same effect when an overly acute jaw angle does not parallel the work pieces.  Note this would not be such a problem if gluing up 4/4 panels. However effects are magnified with full contact of the long jaws. The result is unacceptable.

The next 3 pictures show the acute angle of the fixed jaw at rest.  I did not measure the angle of degrees, but you can see the air gap is greater than 3/32", but less than 1/8".  This gap was consistent across 4 clamps purchased at Home Depot the week of 14 March 2022.  All came from China.

[attachimg=7]

[attachimg=8]

[attachimg=9]

This last picture below shows the old KR clamps manufactured in Germany around the 2012 time frame.  Note the square is NOT under pressure from the movable jaw...just resting on it.  The evidence shows a near perfectly square fix jaw on the old KR version. 
[attachimg=10]

 

[mino]

I’m sure they’re hoping to sell off their OLD style clamps at full price...  but this seems like unscrupulous business practice to me.

HUH ?

So someone not shouting (to you individually) from the rooftops they have a new product is now "unscrupulous" ??? !!! ???

Folks, sometimes do get out a bit. There is life out there. And no, people out there are NOT there to get you.

/Was it not for the 15 minutes of hate part, I would have commended you for sharing some useful info around./*

 

[mino]

Can that really account for the ~20% up-charge over the amount a comparable fixed-head version is being sold for?

Does not matter.

In a developed market, prices have nothing to do with cost but everything to do with (perceived) value.

It may be *) Bessey is not making almost any profit on the fixed version, but the existence of it gives them the volume needed, while the variable version sells less yet gives them all the profits which pay for R&D etc. Cost+ prices were the thing how the USSR worked. We know where it went eventually.

If something is not wort it. Do not buy it. Vote by the feet.

That, and do not look for morals in prices. One can sound like an author of a certain book called "Kapital". A smart fella. Made the right observations too. But got the wrong conclusions outa them.

*) probably not here, but as an example it works

 

[usernumber1]

pics or it didn't happen

 

[peter halle]

NOTE:  Images now uploaded into thread above.

Peter

 

[bargr]

Thank you Peter.  I added notes to the pictures in the previous posting to tell the story.