Best Clear Coat

[rocky100370]

Building my house and wanted to use pine for trim and doors. I think I’d like to just put a clear satin finish on it. Was looking at Rubio but says you will have to maintain it. I want to finish it and be done with it. Also need it to be durable. 

Thank you for your help!

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[guybo]

Hi, lots of good talk about Old Masters Armor w/ hardener.

 

[woodferret]

There's milesi 2k clear but that's probably overkill.

 

[jeh]

Building my house and wanted to use pine for trim and doors. I think I’d like to just put a clear satin finish on it. Was looking at Rubio but says you will have to maintain it. I want to finish it and be done with it. Also need it to be durable. 

Thank you for your help!

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While definitely what I consider to be out of the norm and all logic...where my home is cypress trim is more or less the norm in older homes and believe it or not all is done is two coats of sanding sealer. I reluctantly did my trim with it and have been satisfied with it. Has the feeling a thin clear, but not the protection. Result has a satin sheen or possibly a little less than satin. Use oil-base if you take this route.

 

[rocky100370]

Thank you all for your input. Does anyone have any experience with Total Boat Halcyon? Would be nice not having to sand in between coats.

Thanks

 

[peter halle]

I have been using Halcyon (clear gloss) on a couple of projects.  Very clear, no sanding between coats if recoated within 12 hours.  Dries fast.  Secret is to apply and move on.  They do have a more amber version to better imitate conventional varnish but haven't used it.  Here is a video that I saw after I had already used it: 

Peter

 

[Steve1]

I use General Finishes High Performance water based poly.  I normally use satin.

GF says 2-3 coats.  One of their knowledgeable re-sellers says 3-5 coats.  But it dries pretty fast and I can get 4 coats in a day.

 

[PaulMarcel]

If you want a tough finish with an amber look, try General Finishes' Enduro-Var. It's water-based, urethane-based, and dries ridiculously fast for re-coats.

I learned of it from Charles Neil when I "helped" (haha, hardly...) him co-teach a set of workshops in Tucson. We were in the back between workshops when he showed me a beautiful spalted maple chunk the store was throwing out. It had a huge punky section that was basically colored cotton-ball. "Hey, lemme show you a trick..." he wipes on Enduro-Var (would be v1.0 at the time; 2.0 is current) and 20 minutes later, he turned it. The cotton was solid and turned perfectly. Been a fan ever since. RIP Charles...

 

[rocky100370]

Definitely don’t want any yellowing. Just want it to stay the exact same color as raw. I’m leaning more towards the Halcyon.

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[Walter Cronkat]

I use to spray Zar OMU poly, great product, levels awesome but has gotten expensive at $130 a gallon. Recently discovered Old Masters Armor, same quality as the Zar, but about $85 a gallon. I'll be using it from now on and recommend it.

 

[Packard]

This magazine review gives an excellent rating for the Halcyon clear, stating that it is very glossy and does not lose that glossy look over time.

What confuses me, is that it is rated for interior and exterior applications.

I was always led to believe that exterior finishes are softer, more flexible and more elastic than their interior counterparts.  This, because the range of temperatures that exterior finishes have to endure. 

So for the harder wearing finishes, I always picked an interior version on clear coats.

However, this finish came in 3rd place in their tests.
https://www.woodsmith.com/review/best-polyurethane/

The halcyon-based varnish from TotalBoat is the best option for giving a glossy look to wooden surfaces. The polyurethane varnish also offers great protection from stains, scratches, and sunlight. The wood will stay glossy and shiny always without getting dull, even under direct sunlight. If you’re looking for an affordable and efficient varnish, the TotalBoat Halcyon marine varnish should be your choice.
This varnish comes in two colors, crystal-clear and amber, allowing you to choose the one best suited for you. Moreover, it has a fast-drying formula that dries out within an hour. It is also easy to apply; you can apply it directly by using any type of brush, spray, or roller. The halcyon helps an even spread without air bubbling. This product is a good bargain!

 

[Steve1]

Definitely don’t want any yellowing.

Then don't use an oil based poly.  Water based poly will be clear.

 

[smorgasbord]

This magazine review ...

That review reads more like a compilation of advertisements than a true review, for instance saying:

The products’ longevity and durability also stand out from competitors. You can count on it!

and

The nano-technology used in the varnish claims to offer 360-degree protection. It is no doubt a quality product!

Like, really, how did they test the longevity of the products - and for how long?

And then, at the very end:

The content is created by The Woodsmith Review Team. Woodsmith’s editorial staff is not involved. Woodsmith is reader-supported: When you buy through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. The Woodsmith Review Team is composed of authors, editors, and woodsmiths. Large language models (like Artificial Intelligence) may have been used in the research and creation of the content.

Yup, reads to me that ChatGPT read the labels and advertising and summarized what you're reading there. Not sure how they chose the order - maybe by advertising budget with WoodSmith?  [embarassed]

 

[Packard]

I need a more critical eye when doing research.  I assumed that Woodsmith (the publication) cared enough about their reputation to separate advertiser content from editorial content. 

I studied journalism at the Newhouse School (Syracuse University) and one of that cardinal rules was that advertising was not allowed to talk to editorial.  They were to be kept at more than arms length. 

But that was when print was king (and Life Magazine, and Look were the preeminent publications). 

It is far too easy to get into the “news” business now that the Internet has set the bar for ethics. (And where “Truth Social” has a valuation of 3 billion dollars when it goes public.)

 

[woodferret]

Kinda like how FOG is the source for info good/bad about Festool and some other high-end tools, I'd say you're better served with PaintTalk or other forums where cabinet makers/millwork people hang out.  I don't think any of us with give an ounce credit to tool 'reviews' in magazines.

At PaintTalk, you're more likely to hear ML Campbell, CIC(Centurion), Renner, and Milsei than any of the listed ones from Woodsmith.  Honestly, it was weird to read the selection in that article.  I guess one could argue that choosing readily available retail ones from box stores was a criteria - to make it more relatable to the readership, but I'm not sure if that was one of the OPs requirements since they said they're building their own house.

2c.

 

[peter halle]

Let me add one other comment to my previous ones both here and in another thread.  I have had some drawer fronts made of quilted maple veneer that were finished back before the first of the year.  Totally dry.  Last week I stacked them up and put them on the kitchen table prior to installation.  They have all been inside my home since they were finished.  Today I went to take one of them off the stack to show my brother and the entire stack is stuck together.  Pulling one apart lead to finish damage and I will now have to refinish them all.  Growl with a capital "G".  I don't know if this is normal or an abnormality, but I just wanted to document whereas I have sung its praises.

Peter

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=1674]Peter Halle[/member] if they have been drying for over 3 months, something is definitely wrong.
We mostly use ML Campbell pre-cat lacquer for cabinet parts (conversion varnish for benches and other more harshly used items) and that stuff would stand for stacking parts with 24 hour's dry time.

[member=74041]rocky100370[/member] you really need to steer toward water-based products to maintain the original color. Oil based products will all yellow over time. Pine has a tendency toward yellow anyway, which makes it worse. The main thing to be aware of is with the level of sheen you want to achieve.
If you are looking for a satin or even more dull than that, the number of coats becomes important.
More than 2 coats of dull or satin will start to look "whitewashed". The trick is to do your initial coat/s with gloss, since there is no flattening paste to bring in the white, then top-coat that with the satin or dull in a single coat. This gives the desired sheen, without the buildup.

 

[kurtww]

I haven't tried Halcyon, but I've had good luck with Renner 688. I've used both clear and tinted, matte and satin finishes. It sprays on very nicely, and leaves the open pores and grain pattern. Water-based poly is probably good if you don't want the open pore look, but to me it feels plasticky and soft. The Renner finish in matte looks like you didn't put anything on the wood, which is what I wanted. You can catalyze it as well, and then it gets a really hard feel to the finish (like a professionally finished kitchen cabinet). I use a 5 stage Apollo HVLP to spray it and thin it 15% with water to get good results.

 

[JohnRoscoe]

I've used Total Boat Halcyon for a desktop, conference table, and two coffee tables this year.  On Walnut I went with 5 coats of satin applied with a foam roller.  On oak, I started with the manufacturer's suggestion to use gloss and then finish with satin, 4+2 coats.  I think on the pine trim work you're doing I'd skip the gloss and just use satin, I've not seen any haze or cloudiness.  The product self-levels very well so multiple coats were much easier to apply than I initially expected.  It does build and after 4 or so coats you're going to know it's there.  I'd shoot for 2-3 coats for trim.

I like the pouches the product comes in and lots of reviews claim it to be a harder finish than others, hence why I used it on table tops.  I wouldn't be opposed to just buying a gallon of Minwax Polycrylic from the home center, though.  It's a remarkably good product for the price and comes in a flat finish.

I'm trying to get away from the oil-based wipe-on finishes that I find so much easier, and in many cases more interesting to look at, but for a natural look water-based is a clear winner.

 

[Packard]

More than 2 coats of dull or satin will start to look "whitewashed".

.   

I tried one coat over black and the black looked gray.

I settled on using Butchers’ Wax applied with 00000 steel wool pads.  Over gloss finish, this yields a nice satin look, and leaves the finish with a silky feel.  Very nice.

But be aware that you may have issues in the future if you decide to re-finish.  The residual wax will kill adhesion.

They also sell “wool oil” which is designed to work with steel wool to achieve a satin finish.  I’ve used it.  I prefer the Butchers’ Wax.  I don’t know about re-coating on a wool oil treatment.

Before I discovered the steel wool treatment, would use gloss for the first two or three coats and the final coat only with satin finish coating.

The Butchers’ wax and 00000 steel wool treatment, to my eye and touch is nicer. It requires a lot of elbow grease.  You have to press hard enough to make the micro-scratches that creates the satin finish.