Best European/Cup Hinges Today?

[smorgasbord]

My kitchen cabinets are about 25 years old, and are in need of a refreshing. I used Sutherland Welles tung oil products, so a light sanding and re-application are all that's needed there. I also want to add pull out shelves instead of just fixed shelves behind the doors.

BUT, in the last quarter century, cabinet hardware has gotten a lot better. The cabinets have Grass hinges in them now, most of which are like this:https://www.hardwaresource.com/gras...cabinets-48-mm-screw-hole-spacing-bundle.html

[attachimg=1]

As you can see, they're bulky, which might get in the way of the sliding shelves I want to add. AND, they don't have the modern advantages of soft-close, snap shut, and besides, they're a pain to adjust (I never did get them perfect).

So, what's the best hinge made today? I believe these are bored with a 3mm offset, but honestly, since the doors are solid wood I'm ready to cut & glue 35mm plugs in and then recut the cups to whatever the new hinges require.

TIA

 

[Peter Kelly]

Unless you're looking to make your new roll-out shelves quite a bit narrower, you'll want to stay with 170° opening hinges for clearance. Grass still makes top of the line hardware and they've got a few different bore patterns that don't necessarily match Salice, Hettich or Blum so I'd probably stick with their Nexis line.

 

[smorgasbord]

Thanks for the info/reply.

I'm not concerned about the screw locations - it's the 35mm bore that would be the hardest thing to change.

For slide-outs I was thinking I'd mount Blum Tandems on blocks on the sides. We don't want to have to open the doors very much past 90 just to get a slide out to slide out.

 

[Peter Kelly]

The cup size is almost always 35mm so you've got your choice of brands, I happen to like Salice but that's just personal preference. The inside of cabinet doors always seem to get scarred by roll out shelves when the door isn't fully open so you'll want to get the bumpers that Blum makes. Grass has a rolling door protector as well.

 

[morts10n]

You can just use the standard Blum 110° hinges if you are blocking out rollouts. 3mm is less than a standard size bore but it can still work

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The "bulk" of the hinges you have is because they are 170 degree swing. That swing also moves the entire door out of the way of the carcass. This gives you clearance for pull-outs.
The much smaller appearing 110 degree hinges will not allow that, unless you space the drawer guides away from the cabinet sides. This means a narrower drawer than the maximum that it could be.
I generally like Salice best, but for the last year or so the "standard" that we use is Blum, unless otherwise specified.
I used Grass last year, for my daughter's kitchen, because Blum Tandem drawer guides were very hard to get and I wanted to keep all of the hardware matching.

 

[smorgasbord]

• Here's another problem:
  
  [attachimg=1]
  
  The bottom hinge is close to the bottom, so I'd need a very low profile shelf (at least on that side) to clear any hinge.
  
  At this point I'm thinking of going to 110 swing hinges and block the pull-out shelves to clear.
  
  When you say that you prefer one brand of hinge over another, what are your reasons?  For instance:
  
  1. Snap/hold close
  2. Soft close
  3. Ease of adjustment
  4. Strength/ability to hold heavier doors without sagging years later
  5. Cost
  
  I have both half overlay and full overlay doors if that matters. Nothing inset.
  

 

[Peter Kelly]

I think the only way to get a roll-out shelf below that bottom hinge is to use a set of keyboard tray slides and mount them to the deck upside down, otherwise, I'd start above. I'd also recommend using good quality single extension epoxy slides rather than under-mount ones. Fraction of the price, far easier to install on roll-out shelves and they work just as well for this application.

I've found that Westlund Distributing defenitely has the best prices on Salice hardware.https://www.westlunddistributing.co...tml?manufacturer=Salice&product_list_limit=50

 

[semenza]

Exactly how much space is there below that hinge mount?

Seth

 

[tjbnwi]

The newer hinges may not fit the screw hole spacing on hinges as old as yours. Grass used their own spacing at one time. Grass now uses the same spacing as Blum and ever other euro cup hinge I’ve run into over the last 10 years.

Make the rolling shelf 3-4” tall.

Rolling shelf width equals—clear space -1”. (Distance from hinge to hinge on the other side or stile/panel)

We use Blum under mount slides on all of the drawers and rollouts. Our rollouts get the X-Series system so they are height adjustable.

[attachimg=1]

Tom

 

[xedos]

The answer to the question is ……….

Salice

That said , Blum , HetTich and Grass all make quality hinges. 

 

[smorgasbord]

Exactly how much space is there below that hinge mount?

2.25" below the knuckle part, less if you're thinking the mounting plate.

 

[semenza]

Exactly how much space is there below that hinge mount?

2.25" below the knuckle part, less if you're thinking the mounting plate.

So below the mount is probably about 1.25" ?  If so you should be able to find compact ball bearing slides that will fit below the hinge mount. And go with a pullout shelf as opposed to a pullout "drawer" . Maybe room for a very low rim on the shelf. But in regardless, the shelf could have a taller back that cleared the hinge.

It could have taller sides that would clear the hinge when open. Just leave the sides cut / set back from the front of the shelf so that the hinge doesn't hit when the door is closed.

Seth

 

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks Tom for the X-Series System tip.

 

[squall_line]

Thanks Tom for the X-Series System tip.

Honestly, with all of the talk about whether or not there's enough space above or below a hinge for x or y to fit, blocking the mounts out from the side of the box seems to be the best overall answer.  No need for the hinges to be out of the way, no replacing the hinges, etc.

Most retrofits are probably going to end up blocked out for that very reason, but I can see the benefit in going that route new as well.

 

[Cheese]

I'll just add if you do block out the slides, use something more substantial than these commercially available plastic items.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

After about 6 months of use the screws started to fall out and I noticed pieces of wood fiber on the bottom shelf. This photo shows the amount of wood fiber after I removed the plastic brackets. If you look closely you can see that some of the holes are enlarged and egg shaped.

[attachimg=4]

 

[tsmi243]

Too late to save yours, but wouldn't longer screws have been the answer?  The plastic bricks look like they worked out just fine

 

[smorgasbord]

A friend of mine is having their kitchen remodeled. They have no lower door cabinets except under the sink - everything else is drawers.

So, I'm now thinking of replacing my three non-sink door cabinets with a pair of drawers for each. I still have plenty of matching wood and was going to touchup/refinish the existing cabs anyway. So I don't need as many hinge replacements, if any at all, but I will need slides (probably going with Blum Tandem).

The hardest thing is finding the old drawer pulls to match. Or, I end up replacing them all.

 

[4nthony]

A friend of mine is having their kitchen remodeled. They have no lower door cabinets except under the sink - everything else is drawers.

So, I'm now thinking of replacing my three non-sink door cabinets with a pair of drawers for each. I still have plenty of matching wood and was going to touchup/refinish the existing cabs anyway. So I don't need as many hinge replacements, if any at all, but I will need slides (probably going with Blum Tandem).

The hardest thing is finding the old drawer pulls to match. Or, I end up replacing them all.

I gutted my old cabinets, switching them out from doors and fixed shelves to all drawers, and have been very happy with the change. If you can, I would definitely recommend getting rid of all your lower doors. Your back and knees will thank you soon enough

 

[smorgasbord]

Any comments on Blum Tandem vs Blum Movento? The latter have higher capacity, support push to open, and have more adjustable axes. Probably more money, but that's probably small in the total scheme of things, especially if it saves having to buy/install pulls.