Best Hand Saw for Cutting Through Domino on Drawer Box?

[afish]

I understand, if its something for you then roll with it since everything is cut already. if they fail then you will know what to do next time In the future cut the drawers the other way for max strength.  Trimming all the dominos as the last step after the glue dries will automatically fix the out of squareness you have going on as long as you make sure the drawer is assembled square if not the gouge wont be your only issue...

 

[afish]

It also just dawned on me since you mentioned you cut the pieces for use with the lock miter.  Did you take into account on how switching to the domino drawer would affect the drawer slides?  I dont use the lock miter so Im not sure of it affects the cut size of the drawer parts.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

I understand, if its something for you then roll with it since everything is cut already. if they fail then you will know what to do next time In the future cut the drawers the other way for max strength.  Trimming all the dominos as the last step after the glue dries will automatically fix the out of squareness you have going on as long as you make sure the drawer is assembled square if not the gouge wont be your only issue...

I'll rotate this box and just cut them on the Kapex ... easy enough and I won't see the day they fall apart and I recall this conversation!

I've always thought you had to clamp under pressure to have a good solid joint ... does pin nailing really work over clamps or is it just for drawers which you'd suggest this?  BTW, I've Bostich pneumatic nailers, missing the pin nailer, but wondered if I shouldn't just go battery for portability?  I got pneumatic as I figured air compressors don't change but batteries may over the years ...

 

[Bugsysiegals]

It also just dawned on me since you mentioned you cut the pieces for use with the lock miter.  Did you take into account on how switching to the domino drawer would affect the drawer slides?  I dont use the lock miter so Im not sure of it affects the cut size of the drawer parts.

This is not the lock miter but drawer lock ... with the drawer lock, the front/rear is cut to the opening minus drawer slides which is what makes it so easy.  It's the sides that need to be calculated for length.  Since I've matching lengths for all pieces I can rotate the box for Domino's but I will have to cut off 30mm to account for the front/rear being between the sides rather than sides between front/rear as the drawer lock is oriented.

 

[afish]

I understand, if its something for you then roll with it since everything is cut already. if they fail then you will know what to do next time In the future cut the drawers the other way for max strength.  Trimming all the dominos as the last step after the glue dries will automatically fix the out of squareness you have going on as long as you make sure the drawer is assembled square if not the gouge wont be your only issue...

I'll rotate this box and just cut them on the Kapex ... easy enough and I won't see the day they fall apart and I recall this conversation!

I've always thought you had to clamp under pressure to have a good solid joint ... does pin nailing really work over clamps or is it just for drawers which you'd suggest this?  BTW, I've Bostich pneumatic nailers, missing the pin nailer, but wondered if I shouldn't just go battery for portability?  I got pneumatic as I figured air compressors don't change but batteries may over the years ...

clamping is better but the pin nail will help hold it in place while you clamp it.  Truthfully I throw a clamp on from time to time but probably isn't necessary. It kind of depends on how big and awkward the drawer is. once the dominos are glued in the joint glue is just extra insurance at that point.  So if you feel you need a clamp to help hold it while working with the drawer by all means use a clamp or 2.

As far as battery vs. pneumatic I prefer pneumatic for shop/bench work and battery for doing trim construction work.  The battery units are bigger and heavier but dont require you to worry about a hose getting caught on anything and everything when dragging it from room to room.  When doing bench work the hose becomes less of an issue and the smaller lighter gun works better for me. So if i was starting out id get 18 & 15 ga finish gun in battery format. then a stapler 18ga. 1/4" crown and 23ga. pinner in pneumatic.  However, Dewalt my battery platform doesnt offer a cordless 23ga. pin nailer but when they do I will get one for working on prefinished trim. 

 

[rvieceli]

[member=60777]Bugsysiegals[/member] check the square on your end cuts on the pieces. It appears that they might be off  90 just a smidge. That’s what could be causing the off square when you put them together.

Ron

 

[Bugsysiegals]

[member=60777]Bugsysiegals[/member] check the square on your end cuts on the pieces. It appears that they might be off  90 just a smidge. That’s what could be causing the off square when you put them together.

Ron

The board is so thin it’s really hard to tell but looks like it could be just slightly off. I’d forgot about it until you mentioned it but I recently bought this digital protractor and discovered my TS-55 track saw, which was used to break these sheets down before adding some cuts on the table saw, was not exactly 90 degrees!!  I don’t recall how much it was off but I was certainly surprised to find it off. Thankfully I’ve only used it on 10 sheets of plywood for these shop cabinets so if they’re slightly off at least they’re only visible to me ... I’m just thankful I caught it in time to continue testing it before getting to my kitchen cabinets but my track saw and Kapex have each been off so I’ve learned every tool which can be calibrated must be checked.

 

[afish]

Just a another quick note I wouldnt trust that digital angle finder for trying to determine edge squareness or critical squareness for that matter. While they are usually pretty accurate its not uncommon to have .1 error.  for checking for true squareness I find a small machinist square works best and hold it up with a bright light behind it will help highlight any error.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Just a another quick note I wouldnt trust that digital angle finder for trying to determine edge squareness or critical squareness for that matter. While they are usually pretty accurate its not uncommon to have .1 error.  for checking for true squareness I find a small machinist square works best and hold it up with a bright light behind it will help highlight any error.

I thought as much also until I held it up to both my WoodPeckers square and 12” triangle for which it consistently said 90.00 every time ... seemed pretty accurate to me if the WP is claimed to be accurate to .001 over 12” or something like that?

 

[afish]

The ones I have had would display 90 correctly when it was measured against a known square.  the problem was it would also display 90 if it wasnt a true 90.  I havent seen one yet that didnt have some slop in it. 

 

[Bugsysiegals]

The ones I have had would display 90 correctly when it was measured against a known square.  the problem was it would also display 90 if it wasnt a true 90.  I havent seen one yet that didnt have some slop in it.

I’ll have to try getting it where it just turns 90 and then see if I can see light up against my squares.  If you can, how do you calibrate something like the TS55 which can only cut so thick?  I suspect the naked eye can’t see as accurately as even a sloppy digital protractor?  I know you can use feeler gauges on metal but on an inch and a half thick wood I’m not sure how accurate the sliver of light test can be?

 

[Stone Message]

I was going to use my drawer lock router bit but my zero clearance fence isn't working as well as I'd like so I've decided to use Domino's instead.  I thought it would go smooth until the machine started feeling funny at the end of the plunge.  I wasn't sure what was going on until I removed the Domino ... the bottom of the bit flares out and the bit was elongating the hole as well as burning the wood! 

It seems I need to stop as soon as I feel this different feeling and then just cut off the excess Domino?  I'm unable to move on to the middle Domino until these are cut flush but wonder whether there's any particular type of hand saw I should buy which will cut the excess Domino while minimizing the scaring of the wood itself?

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Hi [member=60777]Bugsysiegals[/member]

I see in a couple of the pictures that you have posted that you have the Trend digital angle finder. Trend also do a rather nice folding pull saw. It has no set and so can cut flat on the surface of your drawers without marking them. The trick is to press the smooth surface of the blade against the drawer front as you saw (remember it cuts on the pull so do not push hard).

Peter

 

[afish]

I would first check the blade to the base for square with a small machinist type square.  Then find some flat scrap and make a test cut. The thicker the better but 18mm will work fine.  If you wanted you could glue 2 pieces together so you would have almost 1.5 inch thick piece. MDF works well here flat and cheap and easy to cut. The track could possibly introduce some error into the equation so make a cut with the track. Check the test cut with the square holding it up to a bright light.  Mark the face that you put the track on so if there is any further adjustment needed you know which way to adjust the saw. The light test is actually very accurate.  Accurate enough for any type of wood working project. However I guess that also depends on the person and their eye. Its easy to spot if one side of the cut has no light and if there is a sliver of light at the other end.  I dont have hard numbers but a good eye could probably spot anything over a few thousands off.   

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Thanks [member=73094]afish[/member]!

Linear Deflection = (width of control surface) * (sine of angle of deflection)

WoodPeckers squares claim accuracy of .001” over at 12” which is a maximum of 0.0085° angle of error.  The protractor claims accuracy within ±0.3°.  That said, if we’re comparing to the WP square, the linear deflection of the digital protractor at an error of 0.3° is 0.062”, 0.2° is 0.041”, and 0.1° is 0.02” ... this is a lot more inaccurate than I expected!

I know you can calibrate the miter angle on the Kapex within thousandths of an inch using the 5 cut method and a digital caliper ... I'll have to research if there's a method to do a similar accuracy on the bevel which carries over to the track saw.

Now I'm curious whether it's thousands or hundredths of an inch that the human eye can detect with a machinist square and light ...

 

[Bugsysiegals]

I was going to use my drawer lock router bit but my zero clearance fence isn't working as well as I'd like so I've decided to use Domino's instead.  I thought it would go smooth until the machine started feeling funny at the end of the plunge.  I wasn't sure what was going on until I removed the Domino ... the bottom of the bit flares out and the bit was elongating the hole as well as burning the wood! 

It seems I need to stop as soon as I feel this different feeling and then just cut off the excess Domino?  I'm unable to move on to the middle Domino until these are cut flush but wonder whether there's any particular type of hand saw I should buy which will cut the excess Domino while minimizing the scaring of the wood itself?

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Hi [member=60777]Bugsysiegals[/member]

I see in a couple of the pictures that you have posted that you have the Trend digital angle finder. Trend also do a rather nice folding pull saw. It has no set and so can cut flat on the surface of your drawers without marking them. The trick is to press the smooth surface of the blade against the drawer front as you saw (remember it cuts on the pull so do not push hard).

Peter

Thanks Peter, I'll have a look!

 

[semenza]

Funny I'm looking at LV now but they've no ratings .. would be nice to see which is the most popular and has good reviews.  It seems some are for crosscut and others rip?

  I can give you one rating -------  [thumbs up]  For the Veritas double edge flush cut saw. Lee Valley item # Item 05K3601. The double edge plus flexibility gets it into lots of spaces too. I've had one for many years and used it many times.

  Couple tips - you really  need  to let the saw do the work. It is thin and sharp and cuts quickly but if you force it at all it will tend to flex and bind.  Also when using it  in a flexed position it helps to keep a couple fingers on the portion of the blade that is flat on the surface.

Seth

 

[Cheese]

Now I'm curious whether it's thousands or hundredths of an inch that the human eye can detect with a machinist square and light ...

Thousandths...as in around .001-.002. More than that is easily verifiable using a feeler gauge.

I also concur with afish and would use a Woodpeckers square or a Starrett combination square, something where the blade cannot be moved from 90º.  The digital square is good for getting approximate angles.

An easy way to check that digital square is to set it at 90º, place it along an edge of a board and mark the blade length with a pencil, flip the square over and mark the blade length again.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Funny I'm looking at LV now but they've no ratings .. would be nice to see which is the most popular and has good reviews.  It seems some are for crosscut and others rip?

  I can give you one rating -------  [thumbs up]  For the Veritas double edge flush cut saw. Lee Valley item # Item 05K3601. The double edge plus flexibility gets it into lots of spaces too. I've had one for many years and used it many times.

  Couple tips - you really  need  to let the saw do the work. It is thin and sharp and cuts quickly but if you force it at all it will tend to flex and bind.  Also when using it  in a flexed position it helps to keep a couple fingers on the portion of the blade that is flat on the surface.

Seth

Thanks Seth, I'll give it a look and thanks for the tip!

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Now I'm curious whether it's thousands or hundredths of an inch that the human eye can detect with a machinist square and light ...

Thousandths...as in around .001-.002. More than that is easily verifiable using a feeler gauge.

I also concur with afish and would use a Woodpeckers square or a Starrett combination square, something where the blade cannot be moved from 90º.  The digital square is good for getting approximate angles.

An easy way to check that digital square is to set it at 90º, place it along an edge of a board and mark the blade length with a pencil, flip the square over and mark the blade length again.

Interestingly enough when I zero my digital calipers and begin opening them up against sunlight I can see light as soon as it says 0.0005" but my caliper is only accurate to +/- 0.001" ... even still, I checked it against my feeler gauges and it accurately measures the first 3 which are 0.0015, 0.0020, and 0.0025 so if the eye can see light at 5 ten thousandths of an inch that's pretty impressive and accurate!

 

[afish]

Yea, as I mentioned it's pretty darn accurate way to check quickly. I never tried to measure it but If there's a woodworking project that requires an edge to be more square then I can detect using a good fixed square and bright light I won't be anywhere near it and Im pretty finicky.  Its virtually splitting hairs at that point. Those digital protractors are good for running trim and such not for checking square when it counts.