Best portable Table Saw for Accuracy, Precision, and Smoothness of Cut

[basimerly]

Afternoon Festoolers,

For my first thread, need some help picking a saw.  There have been countless threads online about table saw reviews and I feel like I have read hundreds.  My particular concern however is in the accuracy, precision, and smoothness of cut/blade wobble.  While most reviews are interested in the overall experience, I am only worried with quality of cut.  I have been using a Ridgid table saw, and it has served me well overall, but is seriously lacking in the quality of cut department.  But now that I have my TS75  [big grin], I can specialize my cutting practices a bit more.  After all of my research, time and time again I come back to the same conclusion in saw choice.  As you might guess, it is sold overseas by this Festool company that sells awesome tools, but only a limited selection in the US... Shane- can we start a FOG-U.S. army to conquer a Festool warehouse in Germany, or would they frown on that?

I am a part-timer in custom furniture, built ins, specialty radiator cabinets, and anything wood in old homes in Washington D.C.  I work a day job in marketing and finance at a small family owned business, but the night/weekend job is what is helping to finance any hopes of grad school.  Since I can only take jobs that fit my time and setup specifically, I can be pretty specialized in my tool needs.  

I need accuracy, precision, and the smoothest cut I can find, in a small non cast iron package, which is a bit crazy I know.  I might be willing to find a way to deal with the weight and size of the saw stop contractor saw if it wasn't so insanely expensive, but in terms of capability it would still be big time overkill.  (Not that I wouldn't love to have the biggest baddest table saw imaginable out of Germany and a warehouse to use it in!)

What I'm not worried about as all the saws available in this category already have what I need in these areas:
-rip capacity
-depth of cut
-extra features or pull out sections - Rousseau has that covered if its not already safer to use my TS75
-miter guage (I have an incra)
-blade (Stock will be used for large coaster, abuse cuts if I must, or wall clock)
-accessories
-size and weight ( Within the plastic contractor saw realm that is- however painful that is to say)
-available stands
-dado blade ability would be a bonus but doesn't make the must-have list

I haven't had the opportunity to personally try out multiple saws as many of you have, and any help is greatly appreciated.  Quality of cut is the only goal after safety.  My apologies if there is already a thread on this somewhere, if so anyone have the link?

Thank you all !  

-Ben

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

The first thing that I would do, since you have the TS75, is check out the Festool table saw insert. ( I think it works with the TS 75?) Peter Parfitt has an excellent review on this. Another thing to keep in mind is that Sawstop is in the developmental stages of offering a smaller and more portable table saw.  They hope that it will be available sometime during the second half of 2014.  (That's the one that I'm most interested in.) Another brilliant table saw (made in Germany) that's available in the USA, is Mafell's Erica. Hope this helps.

 

[Paul G]

The first thing that I would do, since you have the TS75, is check out the Festool table saw insert. ( I think it works with the TS 75?) Peter Parfitt has an excellent review on this. Another thing to keep in mind is that Sawstop is in the developmental stages of offering a smaller and more portable table saw.  They hope that it will be available sometime during the second half of 2014.  (That's the one that I'm most interested in.) Another brilliant table saw (made in Germany) that's available in the USA, is Mafell's Erica. Hope this helps.

Is there a TS75 tablesaw insert AINA?

 

[RJNeal]

[popcorn]

 

[peter halle]

The TS-75 insert for the CMS is not available here.  If one is imported there is the issue of voiding warranties and not having part or service availability.

Statement from Festool.

Warning: The Festool CMS System is approved for use with only the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers in the US and Canadian markets.  It is not approved for use with the OF 2200, nor with any of the CMS modules currently available outside the US and Canadian markets (TS, Jigsaw and sanding modules).  Festool USA does not  endorse the use of these components and will not support them with spare  parts or repairs. The use of anything other than the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers and their related accessories with the CMS will void the warranty agreement on the entire system for customers within the US and Canada. Festool does not endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Peter, any idea if this option is in the planning stage? Thanks.

 

[basimerly]

NYC Tiny Shop thanks for the info !  If SawStop comes up with a more portable version that may be my ticket. That Mafell is serious !

 

[NERemodeling]

As far as the portable saw stop goes you can hear a bit about it HERE, the interview starts maybe around 5:00 and goes for about 10 minutes or so

from what i know they have been working on this thing for years, in the interview he says they are testing this fall so it wont be available until 2014 but he is unsure of what month

John

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Anytime , Basimerly! Hey John...that's very cool news.  Thanks.

 

[amt]

I wonder if you could modify a Rigid R4512 to be portable.  It might work if you were only rolling it out of your vehicle and in to a garage (but not up stairs, etc). 

 

[peter halle]

Peter, any idea if this option is in the planning stage? Thanks.

I would not be the appropriate person to officially speak to this.  Only Festool knows.  Only Festool could speak to that.  But with the current situation regarding table saws and litigations for injuries and the press for safety laws that would add to the complexity of creating something that would work and not violate patents for a stand alone saw - let alone a portable saw that would inserted into a stand thus making it a table saw and then paying the product liability insurance premiums, once again not speaking for Festool, I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting.

Of course my observations and opinions could be totally wrong  [big grin].

Peter

 

[NERemodeling]

Peter, any idea if this option is in the planning stage? Thanks.

I would not be the appropriate person to officially speak to this.  Only Festool knows.  Only Festool could speak to that.  But with the current situation regarding table saws and litigations for injuries and the press for safety laws that would add to the complexity of creating something that would work and not violate patents for a stand alone saw - let alone a portable saw that would inserted into a stand thus making it a table saw and then paying the product liability insurance premiums, once again not speaking for Festool, I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting.

Of course my observations and opinions could be totally wrong  [big grin]

Peter

Makes you wonder why festool sent out that survey a few months back about table saws...

John

 

[Kev]

I'd love to understand how US product liability and the associated product liability insurance works in the US.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, it goes something like this ...

... A complete "novice" can buy a piece of machinery and hurt themselves. Let's just say it was potentially a chain saw and the person cut their foot off. As a result of the injury, the chain saw user can claim that the product is at fault and make a liability claim against the product manufacturer or local US distributor. Liability insurance can be acquired, but the cost of such relates to the injury frequency and cost per claim ... so anything with power and blades isn't going to be cheap to insure.

Am I wrong?

 

[Paul G]

I'd love to understand how US product liability and the associated product liability insurance works in the US.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, it goes something like this ...

... A complete "novice" can buy a piece of machinery and hurt themselves. Let's just say it was potentially a chain saw and the person cut their foot off. As a result of the injury, the chain saw user can claim that the product is at fault and make a liability claim against the product manufacturer or local US distributor. Liability insurance can be acquired, but the cost of such relates to the injury frequency and cost per claim ... so anything with power and blades isn't going to be cheap to insure.

Am I wrong?

This is a very litigious country, a lot of it is because anyone can sue just about anyone for anything and if they lose there isn't much ramification other than their own lawyers costs. We desperately need some serious tort reform to end the frivolous lawsuits. Often the defendants insurance will settle just to stop it from dragging on and costing more attorney fees, especially if its headed to jury. So all this gets wrapped up into overhead on the products and services.

I've heard that in some other countries if you sue and lose you also pay the defendants attorneys costs, I wonder how true that is or where but that would weed out a lot of the junk here.

 

[Richard D.]

I apologize for replying to the actual post topic instead of the tangent....

The quality of cut has more to do with the blade than the saw. The proper blade for the job and the condition and quality of the blade will effect the cut more than the saw. For accuracy the alignment of the saw and fence are the most important. I am partial to Freud Industrial blades for furniture and general work and I am a big proponent for switching blades for the type of cut instead of relying on a one blade does all approach. A 24" tooth rip, 50 tooth general purpose and a 90 tooth ply/finish blade are what I use most.

 

[basimerly]

Thanks everyone. That interview about the Saw Stop is exciting.  Thanks for the details NERemodeling!    Yes they charge an unearthly premium, but digits are worth a lot so I have a hard time arguing with it. Anyone know when the patent is up on that ?  I'm sure a number of higher end tool companies are ready to jump on that when that patent is up. 

On blades I couldn't agree more Richard. I use a Forrest blade on my miter saw and table saw, as well as a Freud glue line rip, and a Forrest dado set is next on my blade wish list. The two direct drive portable table saws I have used though just had to much play/movement in the bearings and I was never able to get as clean a cut as I have seen some get with some of the Dewalt and Bosch options out there, so I knew there was a better choice available.  A Festool solution would be great though.

 

[andvari]

This is a very litigious country, a lot of it is because anyone can sue just about anyone for anything and if they lose there isn't much ramification other than their own lawyers costs. We desperately need some serious tort reform to end the frivolous lawsuits. Often the defendants insurance will settle just to stop it from dragging on and costing more attorney fees, especially if its headed to jury. So all this gets wrapped up into overhead on the products and services.

I've heard that in some other countries if you sue and lose you also pay the defendants attorneys costs, I wonder how true that is or where but that would weed out a lot of the junk here.

In the US law varies from state to state. Judges can apply the 'equitable remedy' rule, or other criteria if they believe the case had no merit at all or was fraudulent in order to make the defendant whole. Places like California and Texas have additional restrictions.

The idea is that always making the loser pay all costs goes too far in the other direction in discouraging lawsuits.

It's a balancing act that is impossible to get perfectly right.