Best Sander for Door Frames

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm building many kitchen doors for our kitchen. I've been using my 150/3 for the frames of the raised panel doors but it's a little big for this job. Any alternatives?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[ccarrolladams]

My custom cabinet shop has had good luck with the RO 90 DX for face frames as well as cabinet door and drawer front frames.

We own virtually all of the Festool sanders. We switch to the ETS 125 and 150/3 for wider door panels and drawer fronts.

When we need to keep edges crisp, we only use hard pads on our sanders.

 

[ScotF]

I am sure others will weigh in, but I think that is one of the things that the RO90 was made for (do not have one, but we did use it in cabinet class for this purpose) or you could try one of the 5 inch RO and take advantage of the upcoming sale that starts in a few days (for either one).  I really like orbital sanders and so the RS2E, RTS400 or DTS400 would work too -- you can move them quickly over the joints to flush them and when you go through the grits you do not see scratches and have a smooth, flat surface.  

Scot

 

[nickao]

You can use the 150/3 much better just switching to the hard pad

I put them on new and never take them off. I do need another one on my Rotex,  it took 3 years to wear out.

I guess if you are sticking to Festool go RO 90, still go with the hard pad.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Best for door frames are the smaller sanders, DTS400 and ETS125.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for all the input so far. Another question - I'm not a pro but when I sand my doors I use 120 (I sometimes skip this), 150, 180, 220, and 320 grit paper, is this how it shoud be done?

(Asking because if I buy a new sander I will need to stock up on paper)

Thanks,

Mike

 

[AlexThePalex]

Mike, those grits look good. Only 320 might be overkill though.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Mike, normally it is best to progress through different grits, getting finer each time. However, when preparing wood for some type of finish, you need to be careful you do not burnish the wood. That sort of burnishing, while making the wood very smooth, can also frustrate certain finishes.

Hardly any of my custom cabinet clients want us to do the final finishing. We are a wholesale shop, so our clients are installers and designers, all with established relationships with finishers.

So, we always ask for exact instructions as to how fine they want us to sand.

Since we usually are using exotic woods for doors, frames and drawer fronts, commonly the first finish to be applied will be some kind of stain. Therefore we are asked to end our sanding at 120 grit. This keeps the pores of the wood receptive to the stain. Once that stain has dried then the finisher will use finer abrasives, often starting with 150 grit.

When I have done the finishing personally I like to apply stain at the 120 grit stage. and then follow with 150 followed by 180 grit. At that point I would apply a clear finish, lightly sanding between coats with progressively finer grits.

As several others have said, cabinet doors, frames and drawer fronts are not all about round sanders. With raised panel doors there will be aspects needing in-line sanding to prepare for finishing. We own several Festool Duplex LS 130 EQ sanders. Those accept custom pads. We have made such pads for our frequently used profiles for the sticks and the edges of the raised panels. Generally the cope does not benefit from finish sanding. All this assumes the router bits are sharp. It is worthwhile to practice enough using the router to reduce the need to finish sanding those parts, since ususally raised panel doors look best when the various edges of the profile are really crisp.

 

[nickao]

Yeah, for me 320 is for between finishing coats at most. I usually dont even sand into the 200's and never had an issue of anything not being smooth.

Listen to ccarrolladams on this.

 

[semenza]

Mike, normally it is best to progress through different grits, getting finer each time. However, when preparing wood for some type of finish, you need to be careful you do not burnish the wood. That sort of burnishing, while making the wood very smooth, can also frustrate certain finishes.

Hardly any of my custom cabinet clients want us to do the final finishing. We are a wholesale shop, so our clients are installers and designers, all with established relationships with finishers.

So, we always ask for exact instructions as to how fine they want us to sand.

Since we usually are using exotic woods for doors, frames and drawer fronts, commonly the first finish to be applied will be some kind of stain. Therefore we are asked to end our sanding at 120 grit. This keeps the pores of the wood receptive to the stain. Once that stain has dried then the finisher will use finer abrasives, often starting with 150 grit.

When I have done the finishing personally I like to apply stain at the 120 grit stage. and then follow with 150 followed by 180 grit. At that point I would apply a clear finish, lightly sanding between coats with progressively finer grits.
As several others have said, cabinet doors, frames and drawer fronts are not all about round sanders. With raised panel doors there will be aspects needing in-line sanding to prepare for finishing. We own several Festool Duplex LS 130 EQ sanders. Those accept custom pads. We have made such pads for our frequently used profiles for the sticks and the edges of the raised panels. Generally the cope does not benefit from finish sanding. All this assumes the router bits are sharp. It is worthwhile to practice enough using the router to reduce the need to finish sanding those parts, since ususally raised panel doors look best when the various edges of the profile are really crisp.

Doesn't this end up sanding off the stain? At least that is my experience. How do you avoid that?

Seth

 

[AlexThePalex]

Doesn't this end up sanding off the stain? At least that is my experience. How do you avoid that?

I think the trick is in light sanding.

 

[nickao]

No you are sanding the clear, NOT the stain. You better not get near that stain or the next coat of clear will make the object look blotchy. You are looking to just flatten out the bubbles, etc. With shellac you get a fine chalky dust  when sanding in between coats, but it does not touch the stain. As Alex said its a light sanding. There is rarely sanding between stain coats for me(I find its unnecessary and actually changes the color ). I sand just between the top coats and before the stain is applied.

If sanding between stain coats works for someone I am not telling them to change it. I rarely ever put on more than two coats of actual stain, normally just one, but up to ten coats of clear if it is shellac, two or three if it is poly..

 

[Mike Goetzke]

On this project I have close to 2/3's of my 65 frame/panels done (doors and end caps). I also mistakenly showed my wife a door edge profile so I'm sick of sanding (lots of hand sanding plus see a 10% sale on Oct. 1st. ;D). I bought a used LS130 and tried it out on flat work and found it hard to control - maybe I didn't give it enough time but I resold it (my plans were to used the make-your-own-profile pad). On the finish, I'm using WB finishes. I applied amber shellac to my Euro steamed beech to pop the grain and tone it a bit. I then topcoated it lacquer, sand with 320, apply additional coats of topcaoat and only sand if necessary.

Mike

 

[ScotF]

I think that the sanding regimen depends on the type of finish you are applying as others have mentioned.  Staining takes better at lower grits with open wood pores and this is important to get the stain deep into the wood.  Otherwise it just sits there and wipes off easily. 

I typically finish everything in oil and occasionally apply a top-coat of some kind and I generally sand to 400 grit on most pieces and higher in some instances.  I believe that Sam Maloof sanded into the upper hundreds/low thousands to get the silky-smooth feel to his chairs.

I think that if sanding wood right from the planer/jointer then you need to start at 80 grit to efficiently remove the ripples and move up through the grits from there...you spend more time with 80 and less and less time with each progressive grit as you are just removing scratches from the previous grit.  If you start higher it will take a lot longer to remove the mill marks and this is a waste of time and energy, in my opinion.

Scot 

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I think Cliff "Woodnerd" recommends sticking with used 220 through the whole process?  [big grin]

[poke] Cliff

 

[ccarrolladams]

Back in the days when I did use stain, I found it worked best for me when the pores were open. That is why I stopped at 120 grit. I never sanded between coats of stain, but usually I only used a single coat.

After the stain was dried, I used 150 grit very lightly. Depending on the type of wood and intended results, I might follow with a light sanding with 180 grit.

As I said, when finishing specialists will do their thing to cabinets I build, nearly always they will start with stain. Some instruct us to only progress to 100 grit, but more want us to also make 120 grit pass.

Personally I love working with poplar for paint-ready jobs. The trouble is that our clients simply do not by those jobs from us.

 

[mastercabman]

Mike, normally it is best to progress through different grits, getting finer each time. However, when preparing wood for some type of finish, you need to be careful you do not burnish the wood. That sort of burnishing, while making the wood very smooth, can also frustrate certain finishes.

Hardly any of my custom cabinet clients want us to do the final finishing. We are a wholesale shop, so our clients are installers and designers, all with established relationships with finishers.

So, we always ask for exact instructions as to how fine they want us to sand.

Since we usually are using exotic woods for doors, frames and drawer fronts, commonly the first finish to be applied will be some kind of stain. Therefore we are asked to end our sanding at 120 grit. This keeps the pores of the wood receptive to the stain. Once that stain has dried then the finisher will use finer abrasives, often starting with 150 grit.

When I have done the finishing personally I like to apply stain at the 120 grit stage. and then follow with 150 followed by 180 grit. At that point I would apply a clear finish, lightly sanding between coats with progressively finer grits.
As several others have said, cabinet doors, frames and drawer fronts are not all about round sanders. With raised panel doors there will be aspects needing in-line sanding to prepare for finishing. We own several Festool Duplex LS 130 EQ sanders. Those accept custom pads. We have made such pads for our frequently used profiles for the sticks and the edges of the raised panels. Generally the cope does not benefit from finish sanding. All this assumes the router bits are sharp. It is worthwhile to practice enough using the router to reduce the need to finish sanding those parts, since ususally raised panel doors look best when the various edges of the profile are really crisp.

Doesn't this end up sanding off the stain? At least that is my experience. How do you avoid that?

Seth

I don't know,but i think i'm with you.He is talking about sanding after applying the stain and then put on the top coat. ??? ???

 

[Brice Burrell]

I think Cliff "Woodnerd" recommends sticking with used 220 through the whole process?  [big grin]

[poke] Cliff

Yes, and it makes stocking abrasives a lot simpler. [tongue] [big grin]

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Mike, normally it is best to progress through different grits, getting finer each time. However, when preparing wood for some type of finish, you need to be careful you do not burnish the wood. That sort of burnishing, while making the wood very smooth, can also frustrate certain finishes.

Hardly any of my custom cabinet clients want us to do the final finishing. We are a wholesale shop, so our clients are installers and designers, all with established relationships with finishers.

So, we always ask for exact instructions as to how fine they want us to sand.

Since we usually are using exotic woods for doors, frames and drawer fronts, commonly the first finish to be applied will be some kind of stain. Therefore we are asked to end our sanding at 120 grit. This keeps the pores of the wood receptive to the stain. Once that stain has dried then the finisher will use finer abrasives, often starting with 150 grit.

When I have done the finishing personally I like to apply stain at the 120 grit stage. and then follow with 150 followed by 180 grit. At that point I would apply a clear finish, lightly sanding between coats with progressively finer grits.
As several others have said, cabinet doors, frames and drawer fronts are not all about round sanders. With raised panel doors there will be aspects needing in-line sanding to prepare for finishing. We own several Festool Duplex LS 130 EQ sanders. Those accept custom pads. We have made such pads for our frequently used profiles for the sticks and the edges of the raised panels. Generally the cope does not benefit from finish sanding. All this assumes the router bits are sharp. It is worthwhile to practice enough using the router to reduce the need to finish sanding those parts, since ususally raised panel doors look best when the various edges of the profile are really crisp.

Doesn't this end up sanding off the stain? At least that is my experience. How do you avoid that?

Seth

I don't know,but i think i'm with you.He is talking about sanding after applying the stain and then put on the top coat. ??? ???

I'm just going to throw some things out for consideration.  There was no detailed information as to the type of stain.  Water based stain raises the grain and can be shaved back down and some stains like gels mainly sit on top of the surface, while others penetrate into the wood showing more of the grain characteristics making it more difficult to sand out the coloring.  Sanding a finish lightly before applying the topcoat helps to level out the top coat for a smoother looking final product.  The grits you use, the amount of time spent and the sanding pressure can make or break any benefit to that intermediate sanding step.  As previously mentioned, different wood species and boards respond differently and so even within the same species, different sanding methods may be required.  In the end, you've got to figure out the process that works for you.  Try it different ways on non-critical test pieces and hold onto them as samples with details on the back of the steps you did.

 

[Alan m]

I think Cliff "Woodnerd" recommends sticking with used 220 through the whole process?  [big grin]

[poke] Cliff

i think cliff graduated from nerd to geek 

you ??? ??? ??? ??? ???