Best Tablesaw for Festoolians

[Tom the Remodeler]

Something to ponder, I spoke with a Bosch rep the other day and the rumor is that Bosch will be releasing a table saw sometime in 2009 or 2010 that would be in the same size/weight class as the Makita 2703/Dewalt 745. I'm VERY interested in this news, it'd be nice to see more options in this class of portable, job-site saws. I wonder if it will basically be a scaled-down version of the 4100, sort of like how the DW745 is essentially a scaled-down DW744, optimized for hardwood flooring installers?

 

[Dan Clark]

I keep thinking about what would be the "Best" table saw.  In general, Festool embodies the key features that I want in tools:

- Modularity - A modular system that you can mix and match to suit your needs at the time.

- Safety - Riving knifes, guide rails, solid construction.

- Portability and storability - The ability to quickly move the tools where to the work site, get the job done, and then put them away in a compact space.

There are obviously other key features like quality and accuracy, but there are several table saws that meet these criteria.    My quandary is that I can't find the right combo of features in a single tablesaw.

The top four candidates today would be the Dewalt DW745, Makita 2703 and 2704, and the Bosch 4100.  Here's my rating of each based on reviews and looking at the saws:

DW745:

Overall - Decent saw, but I'm always a bit concerned about Dewalt quality.

Safety - Does not have a true riving knife.

Modular system - Not modular in itself, but can be combined with a Rousseau modular table system.

Portability and storability - Very light and portable.  Relatively compact.

Makita 2703:

Overall - Nice saw, but a little light on power.

Safety - No riving knife or splitter.  (I'm not sure about this one.)

Modular system - Not modular in itself, but can be combined with a Rousseau modular table system.

Portability and storability - Very light and portable.  Relatively compact.

Makita 2704:

Overall - Nice saw.  Decent decent power.

Safety - Does not have a true riving knife.

Modular system - Not modular in itself, but can be combined with a Rousseau modular table system.

Portability and storability - Heavier than the 2703.  May be difficult to install in Rousseau table.

Bosch 4100:

Overall - Potentially the best portable saw, but is heavy. 

Safety - True riving knife than can be installed and removed quickly.  But, there are problems using the riving knife with a think kerf blade.

Modular system - Not modular in itself, but can be combined with a Rousseau modular table system.  However the saw must be lifted OVER the Rousseau stand to be installed.  Gravity rise stand, is nice, but then you don't have modularity.

Portability and storability - Pretty heavy like the Makita 2704.  May be difficult to install in Rousseau table.

The bottom line is that no saw is perfect, but I think a killer for me is the riving knife.  For me, that's a must-have. 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Dan, I think you're pretty much right on in your overview of portable saws. Right now I'm using a company issued Makita 2703, I'm hoping for either the CMS or a smaller Bosch or Makita saw, similar in size to the DW745, but with a Riving Knife.

 

[Overtime]

Dan said.
Bosch 4100:

Overall - Potentially the best portable saw, but is heavy. 

Safety - True riving knife than can be installed and removed quickly.  But, there are problems using the riving knife with a thin kerf blade.

I think the thin kerf blade thing is a non issue and should not have any bearing on your decision. Plus you can still put one on if you needed to. But for what anyway ?  Waiting for the perfect saw is only prolonging the benefits you would have already been enjoying thus far. Using the tablesaw will be a pleasure compared to the "work arounds"    I doubt that you will regret the purchase and you will become comfortable with it's use quicker than you think.

  While the quest for the best features and quality is important, at some point you just gotta pull the trigger. It's a perfectionist thing  ;D Unless you plan to travel with it farther than the parameter of your own home, then weight is a good thing here. Stability overrides the light weight to quality ratio that the contractors want and need.  This is just my opinion.  Unless I were a contractor or was really really squeezed for space I would not be entertaining anything less than this level of saw including the "modularity" aspect of the CMS system. Poratbility and modularity are great if you realy need it but heck no if not !. Bigger is better in this case.
  For me, one thing that always becomes a factor when using any table saw is its stability. It plays a very important role in safety.

If you have the space and your primary use will be at or near home, the weight thing should now be less of a factor, and becomes an advantage as long as the quality is there as well.   

 

[Dan Clark]

Portability and storability are both critical for me.  A nice, large cabinet saw just isn't in the cards.  Modularity is nice because I can add accessories as I need them.  Not critical, but very nice.  For me, it's one of the major benefits of the Festool system. 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[festoolfan1000]

I have yet to bother doing this but the 745's splitter is easily removed with the twist of a knob and riving knives of any appropriate size can be fashioned to fit into the slot. Really all one needs is a 3/4" and a 1-1/2" material capacity knife.

Honestly I've used this saw a lot. With proper technique and a sharp blade I confidently cut material with it all day long. It has a sturdier, smoother operating fence then the Bosch 4000 series and frankly blows away the 2703 (that saw is terrible.) Finish cuts on melamine are possible with this saw thats quite a feat for an ultra portable job site saw.

If you own the Festool gear then the 16" rip capacity is more then enough for those times when you need it. Best of all its so tiny and light you can hang it on the wall when you don't need it.

I'm not sure why the Bosch is considered top dog anyways. If I had the space I would purchase the Ridgid over the Bosch any day, its a much better saw.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I have heard good things about the new DeWalt, much as I heard bad things about the older ones.

I have heard bad things about the Makita 2703 (seems very unlike Makita in handling) and almost only good things about the 2704 - which I use occasionally.

The new Bosch seems nice.

For me - it is confession time - I ditched the Makita Flipper on two grounds: though it is a very very good construction / versatility saw it was too heavy for me and the cut is very good but not top notch. I got the Precisio CS50 and the LA492095 fence. Happy as can be and if I need to cut deeper I have access to the Makita 2704 which with the right blade will produce a great cut as well.

Still, in my book the Makita tablesaw 2704 gets one more bang for the buck and has decent built in table extensions. The new Bosch is cheaper still and seems good.

8)

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Dan,
I like your review of those saws.  However, you leave out one that is also great -- the Ridgid TS2400.  This is the one I use in my shop, and I have to say it is a dependable maching in those situations where I really need a table saw.  The fence on the Ridgid is amazing, and the whole machine is really sturdy and nicely designed.
Together with an Incra miter gauge, the Ridgid handles every table saw task I need.
Matthew

 

[Forrest Anderson]

For me - it is confession time - I ditched the Makita Flipper on two grounds: though it is a very very good construction / versatility saw it was too heavy for me and the cut is very good but not top notch. I got the Precisio CS50 and the LA492095 fence. Happy as can be and if I need to cut deeper I have access to the Makita 2704 which with the right blade will produce a great cut as well.

If you ever have the time to take some photos of your new Precisio CS50, and perhaps do a mini-review, I would be very interested!

Ever since I saw and handled one at a tradeshow, I've had a hankering for a Precisio, and am very keen hear from people who have one. Although there are lots of reviews on the Internet about routers and saws and sanders, there are hardly any about the two Precisio machines. People tend to dismiss them as being too light and way too expensive, but I fell in love with the build quality, portability, smoothness of the sliding table, ability to add accessories as required, etc...

Did you get the base model and then add a few selected accessories like extension tables, or did you get the complete set from the beginning? How thick can you cut with the CS50 with the blade guard and splitter in place? What's the dust collection like, with the dual hose system?

Forrest

 

[Eli]

The dust collection with the wye-hose is pretty good, I've used it on the CS50 and the CMS.

 

[Dan Clark]

Dan,
I like your review of those saws.  However, you leave out one that is also great -- the Ridgid TS2400.  This is the one I use in my shop, and I have to say it is a dependable maching in those situations where I really need a table saw.  The fence on the Ridgid is amazing, and the whole machine is really sturdy and nicely designed.
Together with an Incra miter gauge, the Ridgid handles every table saw task I need.
Matthew

Matthew,

I would hardly call what I wrote a "review".  It's just my impressions of the most common work site table saws. 

I think the industry is the midst of changes.  My need for a table saw will increase in the coming months, but I'm hoping a vendor will come out with a nice saw that has all the features I want before I have to make a decision.

Dan.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Forrest: I was considering the CMS - which I had at one stage. Then I talked to the Festool rep who has owned both and had both in stock when I was over.  He said the CS50 (with the slide) has slightly better precision than the CMS + TS55 + module. The price difference was minimal as I was looking at either the CS50 or the CMS set with TS55 but then I realised that I would use the TS55 permanently on the CMS and for some other work I will be working with the MFT + TS55 + slide rail which will be delivered next week. This will cover most of my needs for sure.

I will be missing out on the option to use other modules but the only module I would ever use would be the router module and considering how (not very) often I would use it I figured I was better of making sure I could not attach it. 

Also I got the LA492095 rip fence which is very sturdy and allows for more precise ripping.

I could have gotten the CS75 but it is prohibitively expensive and weighs much more. If I needed to cut that much deeper I would have gotten the Makita 2704 from scratch and not any of the Precisios.

When I get around to using it next time I will post my findings and drop you a PM.

 

[Eli]

I made the CMS decision for the reason you stated Pingvin, that I wanted to use the other modules. Router especially. I have more and more times I think, "I wish I had the option to use a router table onsite". The jigsaw module also works pretty well, although with one model (the Basis module I think? there are DC hookup issues). I did get the LA492095 Rip fence with it. I found with care the precision is real close, it is the same fence after all. I figured I could have an excuse to get the TS75 to use in the CMS instead if I found it too inconvenient to only have one saw for both purposes.

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Henrik,
 

When I get around to using it next time I will post my findings

How about a photo or two also?

Mike

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Forrest: I was considering the CMS - which I had at one stage...

Thank you very much for your thoughts behind the decision to purchase the CS50 over the CMS.

When I get around to using it next time I will post my findings and drop you a PM.

I look forward to hearing more about it, and like Mike, I would love to see some photos too!

Forrest

 

[Matthew Schenker]

I would hardly call what I wrote a "review".  It's just my impressions of the most common work site table saws.

Dan, you are too modest!  Those were good impressions, and I think that's the kind of thing that really helps people.  In fact, the very idea of having a "What Else is in Your Shop?" board was to see if Festool owners have similar interests in non-Festool machines, or if we could help each other out in those situations where Festool does not make a tool we need.  Seems there is some truth to this.

I'd be interested to see what you think if you did a direct comparison between the Ridgid and the new Bosch.  When I wrote my comparison (click here), it was with the previous Bosch model.  Maybe things have changed since then?

I think the industry is the midst of changes.  My need for a table saw will increase in the coming months, but I'm hoping a vendor will come out with a nice saw that has all the features I want before I have to make a decision.

I agree!  Finally, we are seeing some saws with better safety (riving knives), better fences, and strurdier designs in the benchtop category.  It's interesting, because having a Festool-dominated shop does create a challenge regarding the table saw.  I don't need, don't want, and don't have the space for a big cabinet saw.  And yet, there are times when I still do need a table saw, and I want it to be reliable and well-made.

If I could build something that used the TS55, as some people have kind of done here (click here), that would be very interesting.  My fear is that I would not build it properly and it would be a safety hazard.  But I suppose I would have to agree with those who say that a Festool saw mounted in a table would be the best tablesaw for a Festoolian!

 

[ericbuggeln]

I may be really late on this discussion, but has anyone interested in this thread looked at Rousseau 2745 Portamax Table Saw stand for use with dw745?  I have this saw already for my guys to use on-site.  I think with the Rousseau set up, there would be major advantages for the shop that lacks space.  I have it with Forrest blade, after market throat plate, and Bench Dog featherboards.  It cuts beautifully, but the fence and the way it attaches to saw isn't worth talking about on this site, IMO. The 2745 stand comes with it's own fence which looks like it would be much more accurate and sturdy then dw745's?  Anyone know about this?  I was thinking about getting it with out feed tables and putting kreg Large Klamp System to the right of saw to double as assembly table.  This was going to be for on site, but could work well in the small festool shop every once in awhile.  and if you don't like yellow and black color scheme, Rousseau makes ones for different colors

 

[Dan Clark]

Eric,

That combo would be one of my top candidates.  My two reservation are 1) it's Dewalt and 2) it doesn't appear to have a true riving knife.    I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm not a big fan of Dewalt.  And I was injured by a table saw when I was a kid.  They make me nervous.  Safety is big issue for me.

Dan.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Dan, no foul on not liking Dewalt.  Have you heard or know anything about these.  Rousseau has always seemed to make a good product and the design looks like it could work well with my current set up. 
I am newer to this sight and have mostly lurked around, but I have noticed you do your homework. 
At 30, although Ive been in the contracting business for most of my life I haven't seen this set up or anything like it and want to buy it, but the set up is more then the saw.  The saw is primarily used by my guys so I want to do something to make it the safest it can be.  Like everyone, I'm looking for someone to sell me

 

[Eli]

I've used a older model Rousseau with a Makita in the past. Looks like it hasn't changed much. The outfeed table is worth buying for the hardware, the old top was chipboard melamine. The one we had got a dinged corner in shipping. The fence is pretty good.