Best Tablesaw for Festoolians

This is a good topic as I will be or now should I say "may be" in the market for a cabinet saw.  I have yet to figure out how rip boards of the same width consistently without the use of table saw. I can get pretty darn close with my 55 and GR but it requires me to 1. get down on the floor and 2.  measure, mark and then saw for each pass.  Very time consuming.  An what about dadoing?  My 1400 comes to mind but sometimes it's just more practical to run the board across the table saw with the dado blade vs. setting up the router with the guide rail attachment.  Matthew, how do you consistently rip your boards to a common width?  I don't want to make a $4000 mistake (sawstop).
 
HowardH said:
...but it requires me to 1. get down on the floor and 2.  measure, mark and then saw for each pass.  Very time consuming.
Click to expand...

I would think that you could easily eliminate these two issues by just changing your methods...
 
I agree. Today I ripped two sheets of ply into french cleats. I cut two chunks of 2x4 the right width, and used them to set the rails for every cut. I was on two MFTs, but at home, sometimes I set the workpiece on a folding banquet table on top of a few sheets of cardboard. Get off the ground, and use a method to space the rail quickly. I like blocks, but some people use two combination squares set to the same measurement. There are a couple  ::) designs floating around here for cutting tables and cutting methods. Something will work better for you.
 
As always, I appreciate the ideas.  I still think setting the fence of a good table saw will allow much faster repetitive cuts than having to prepare and cut a jig to size for any particular cut.  That's a good thing about WW.  Lots of ways of accomplishing the same thing.
 
I think I'd agree the table saw can be faster for this. But, I didn't have to muscle the sheets around, I'll squander my minutes that way gladly.
 
The CMS table has been sold and has been replaced by a Makita Flipper - which weighs in at more than double the weight of the CMS, so I bought some casters and made a dolly for it - works fine and saves space as I flip it over on the side and store it on the dolly. It was a heavy beast at 33kg (approx 65 pounds?) but manageable with weels on. :)

The CMS was very lightweight but if I really need a tablesaw I would opt for a higher capacity dedicated model, I can't see myself mounting/dismounting the TS55 all the time. The Precisio CS70 looks nice but has to be pimped and is very expensive so I think I will have to settle for a Makita 2704 which has built in table extensions and is a great, sturdy saw. If I score a big job that would help pay for it I would probably go for the CS70 though. ;)

Now all I need is a MFT and heaps of space...
 
What is the Makita Flipper?  i have tried to find it @ Makta web sites/no luck.

I agree that for ripping short pieces, a table saw is quicker.  For longer (over 4 or 5 ft long) pieces in my shop, it is much easier, quicker and a whole lot safer to rip with the ATF and MFT.  Sometimes, if I want to rip a 10 or 12 foot board, i have a 10' 2x8 or 2x10 (depends on what I am ripping) to clamp board and guide rails to.  At first, it took a lot of figuring to get it right the first time.  I have played around with various setups and I think by the time i get back into the shop for serious play, I will have it.

ATF is working out to be my choice with longer cuts.  In time, I think i will have a system that will be just as quick for ripping short items with the ATF & MFT. I think it just takes patience.

Actually, i have worked it out to slice really thin stuff with Festool toys.  I have done those with bandsaw in the past and then had to sand or run thru thickness planer.  With table saw, those tiny pieces were easilly airborn. Plus, I did not figure how to slice so thin without moving fence for each cut. With BS, no problem that way, but rough cuts that need planing or sanding.  With ATF 55, I often don't need to sand.  In that way, it is a quicker method, and definitely safer.

Tinker
 
Tinker, in Europe and down here, a flipper saw is a chopsaw with integrated table. You can lock the chop saw blade down, the entire top surface of the table flips and the saw becomes a 'table saw'.

I think I am going for the CMS after all, although I still feel like both the makita and dewalt are better saws for other reasons. I like the electronic brake on the makita and the fence on the dewalt, but neither are very light. For 1k AUD, the makita doesn't even come with a stand! I'd have to order in a Rousseau stand to really have it the way I want it, and I'm not even interested in paying int'l shipping for that. With the CMS I can also have a router table and a sliding table saw. It just lets me maximise function for the space I want to trade for it. The Dewalt on the dewalt stand is difficult to move, and doesn't stow very well. I agree it's a little bit of a pain to put the TS55 in the CMS top, but for the amount I use a table saw and the spaces I'm working in, the tradeoff for moving the dewalt around offsets that. I'll replace the CMS standard fence with the CS50 fence for a bit more accuracy. Both the CS50 and CS70 are bigger than I want to go.

There is a point at which you can use two or three different things in the system to acheive the same cut. It's a process to work out what your actual work flow is like, and which method/machine works best. I'm fortunate in that I've been able to try everything mentioned before making my decision.

If I was going to do it all again, I would have kept the Dewalt saw I had, and swapped out the motor over here.
 
Eli: the CMS TS55 module is no longer has the sliding saw feature - that was the old Basis table that had the sliding saw. :(

...so Precisios are the only current table saws from Festool that has the slide.

Tinker; as Eli said The flipper (Makita LS1000) is a rip / table / mitre saw that revolves around the base and is foldable. Very sturdy and a powerful motor. See link in Elis post above.
 
Thanks for info on Flipper.

How does it flip?

do you disconnect saw and remount undrneath or do you flip the table itself?  If so, what happens to the legs?

Tinker
 
Tinker, I believe the axis around which it flips is side/side not front/back. Only the tabletop and saw rotate, the frame and legs don't move.

Pingvin. Short answer is, "isn't everything?"

Long answer is: because I already have the tools themselves, I'll be buying a complete CMS package minus those. Complete in this application means slider table, side extension, back extension, CS50 fence (which I'm resigned to get used to), regular fence (which I still think is a piece of garbage for a table saw fence, but recently learned that you can put a different base on it and mount to the side of the MFT, possibly enabling the elusive MFT ripping solution), vac hose and guard, and a module for the OF1400 and TS55 (two modules).

I've totally stopped thinking about the tools in terms of upfront cost. I'm only interested in whether they do the job for me or not. I make my living with them, so I don't want to notice them at all, and just concentrate on the work. If they work well, they're transparent, ie, I don't think about how I can make them do the job. I'm not sure that makes any sense now that I wrote it. I just woke up.
 
Tinker: you release a catch and simply revolve it around it's axis - simple as that. Since I have an excellent mitre saw (the Makita LS0714 which has large capacity in small format) I haven't swung the Makita round yet in action but when testing the feature it worked like a charm.

Eli: I hear you, I feel the same and stopped looking at price tags (and bank statements) long time ago. As long as there is no extra digit in the price tag...

I divide stuff into very few categories: Can it do the job well - or can it well, do the job? If the answer is the first of the two it's worth the premium, if the answer is the latter it can suffice but is not worth the premium. If the answer is no I would pass on the offer. 

Some stuff (Festool/Makita) are worth the premium whereas some stuff just bleeds your wallet dry.

Since our jobsite was broken into last weekend and I lost some expensive stuff (well locked up but insufficiently insured) I don't feel like spending a nickle on gear - but I am sure with time I will find a nice little square metre to support the legs of a Precisio. Just need to feel some money ticking IN. I have another expensive habit and it is nice to have a few bucks to spare.  ;)
 
I sort of look at it the same way.  For really good tools/equipment, if one needs to ask the price, he/she probably doesn't need it.  For my WW tools and landscaping equipment, I look at service attitude and reputation of my dealer.  when i buy LS equipment, if my guru (Dr. John, i call him) doesn't sell and service it, I don't buy it.  If he ain't got it, I don't need it.  That's how i got involved with Milwaukee tools when in construction.  i found a good service company who just happened to sell and sevice good tools.  I found Festool the same way at a very reputable dealer who knew his tools and gives good service. And later, "Uncle Bob" came along with same 'tude.  those are the people i deal with and stick with.  The tools are great, but maybe second on my list of priorities.

Tinker
 
This morning, I was at one of my favorite purveyers of toys... uhh, tools looking at portable tablesaws - Bosch 4100 and Makita 2704.   Both were nice, but I keep hesitating.  Neither has quite what I want.    However, just before I left...

One of the fellows that works there mentioned that Festool was going to release a "tablesaw" that uses the TS55 in February, 2008.  Said I, "CMS?"  Said he, "Not sure what it's called, but it's supposed to here in February or maybe early March.

OK, you heard this fat, juicy, unsubstantiated rumor here first. 

Regards,

Dan.
 
Eli said:
Did the Bosch 4100 you saw  ::)  have the digital fence?
Click to expand...
Eli,

No, but I've seen it at a trade show.  I was a bit disappointed.  It's actually an add-on that connects to the fence.  It seemed to work pretty well, but I'm not sure if it's worth the extra bucks.

Regards,

Dan.
 
That would still make the Dewalt fence my favorite. Damn! I wish I could bolt it to a CMS.
 
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