Best tool or jig for guiding drill bit into wall?

[MichaelW2014]

Struggling mightily to achieve straight holes for my plastic anchors to use for attaching a vitsoe shelving system onto my crap walls.

I desperately need to figure out a better way to do this. So horrible. Worse than sanding all day long.

Please help. 

 

[Kev]

A sleeve in a flat block is probably the simplest fix.

 

[MichaelW2014]

hi Kev. thanks for the tip. What is the pro fix, for someone who has an art gallery and needs to hang pictures once a month, in perfect rows...?

 

[Kev]

hi Kev. thanks for the tip. What is the pro fix, for someone who has an art gallery and needs to hang pictures once a month, in perfect rows...?

I think you want a cheap laser level .. mark cross hairs on your sleeved block with orientation marks for consistency to align.  Bosch make some good options at modest prices.

 

[Wuffles]

Also, pilot with a much smaller bit, it's less likely to wander, then step it up when you're happy with placement.

Pro tip  [scared]

 

[tjbnwi]

Have a machine shop make you a jig (or find someone with a drill press and make your own).

Tom

 

[jbasen]

hi Kev. thanks for the tip. What is the pro fix, for someone who has an art gallery and needs to hang pictures once a month, in perfect rows...?

I think you want a cheap laser level .. mark cross hairs on your sleeved block with orientation marks for consistency to align.  Bosch make some good options at modest prices.

The problem when you hang pictures is that how tight the wire is on the back of the frame can throw off where your picture hangs even if your picture hooks are perfectly aligned in a row on the wall.  What I have done is to use a long thin stick with a slot in the top of it.  Put the wire in the slot with the stick in a vertical orientation below the picture so it acts as a handle to hold the picture by the hanging wire just as it will hang on the wall.  Now you can line up the picture itself using a laser level.  Finally when you have the picture just where you want it you carefully hold the stick still and remove the picture.  The top of the stick is now exactly where you want the bottom of the picture hanging hook to be located.

You can use this technique to not only align pictures that are the same size so they are straight along a wall but also align pictures of different sizes so, for example, the center of each picture is aligned.  If you want to align pictures on their centers I measure the center of the frame and then put a piece of painters tape on the frame with a small mark. Then it is easy to line up the mark on a laser level. 

This works best with 2 people.  One person to hold the stick still and another to take the picture off the stick when it is in the correct position.  Otherwise the tendency is to move the stick slightly when the weight of the picture is removed.

Hope this helps.

 

[Cheese]

I use one of these, they're available for use with Imperial or Metric drills. The one pictured is using a 6mm drill.

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However, as others have mentioned, if you use the same sized drill bit on a continuous basis, design a simple jig from ply or aluminum and install hardened drill bushings of the appropriate size. The jig/fixture material should be about 3/4" to 1" thick to ensure proper drill perpendicularity.

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[rvieceli]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] Do you need an arbor press to get those drill bushings to seat properly or is there a work around?

Thanks

ron

 

[JSlovic]

An Arbor Press is good but if you're going into wood a C clamp and a slight chamfer on the hole works pretty well. 

 

[MichaelW2014]

hey. all my pictures will be huge with french cleats. some of the paintings are over 2 meters. some are very heavy too. thanks

hi Kev. thanks for the tip. What is the pro fix, for someone who has an art gallery and needs to hang pictures once a month, in perfect rows...?

I think you want a cheap laser level .. mark cross hairs on your sleeved block with orientation marks for consistency to align.  Bosch make some good options at modest prices.

The problem when you hang pictures is that how tight the wire is on the back of the frame can throw off where your picture hangs even if your picture hooks are perfectly aligned in a row on the wall.  What I have done is to use a long thin stick with a slot in the top of it.  Put the wire in the slot with the stick in a vertical orientation below the picture so it acts as a handle to hold the picture by the hanging wire just as it will hang on the wall.  Now you can line up the picture itself using a laser level.  Finally when you have the picture just where you want it you carefully hold the stick still and remove the picture.  The top of the stick is now exactly where you want the bottom of the picture hanging hook to be located.

You can use this technique to not only align pictures that are the same size so they are straight along a wall but also align pictures of different sizes so, for example, the center of each picture is aligned.  If you want to align pictures on their centers I measure the center of the frame and then put a piece of painters tape on the frame with a small mark. Then it is easy to line up the mark on a laser level. 

This works best with 2 people.  One person to hold the stick still and another to take the picture off the stick when it is in the correct position.  Otherwise the tendency is to move the stick slightly when the weight of the picture is removed.

Hope this helps.

 

[MichaelW2014]

I use one of these, they're available for use with Imperial or Metric drills. The one pictured is using a 6mm drill.

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However, as others have mentioned, if you use the same sized drill bit on a continuous basis, design a simple jig from ply or aluminum and install hardened drill bushings of the appropriate size. The jig/fixture material should be about 3/4" to 1" thick to ensure proper drill perpendicularity.

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i think i will get one of these. but when working with a mortar bit, what will you do?

 

[Cheese]

[member=3192]rvieceli[/member]
Ron,
It all depends on how you size the hole. For aluminum I size the hole a little larger than for wood (maple/oak). In all cases I just use the bench vise as an arbor press. Just make sure the bushing is absolutely aligned with the pilot hole and the hole has a generous chamfer on the top.

I've never tried it, but for aluminum maybe a slightly larger pilot hole with some Loctite red would locate the drill bushing appropriately.

Again it's the final use of a fixture/jig that determines the process. For the DIYer that will maybe drill a hundred holes and the placement of the holes isn't critical, we can cheat a little bit and be happy with the repeatability of the process. For a model shop or production environment where placement is critical and thousands of holes need to be drilled, the jig/fixture pilot hole would be reamed out to the proper size and then an arbor press would be used. 

 

[MichaelW2014]

thanks for all the responses guys.

 

[Cheese]

i think i will get one of these. but when working with a mortar bit, what will you do?

This guide has a vee machined into the bottom of it so I'd use a vac with the guide to remove any of the cement/mortar particles.

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However, if you're doing this all the time, I'd really consider making a jig with replaceable drill bushings and dust collection. Screw-in drill bushings are available and would be easy to change out after they've been damaged by the cement particles.

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[jbasen]

That is quite a challenge.  All the pictures I hang are much smaller/lighter.  However, for those pictures with french cleats you won't have to worry about wire sag so you can just use the technique that Kev talked about with aligning the screw holes.

hey. all my pictures will be huge with french cleats. some of the paintings are over 2 meters. some are very heavy too. thanks

hi Kev. thanks for the tip. What is the pro fix, for someone who has an art gallery and needs to hang pictures once a month, in perfect rows...?

I think you want a cheap laser level .. mark cross hairs on your sleeved block with orientation marks for consistency to align.  Bosch make some good options at modest prices.

The problem when you hang pictures is that how tight the wire is on the back of the frame can throw off where your picture hangs even if your picture hooks are perfectly aligned in a row on the wall.  What I have done is to use a long thin stick with a slot in the top of it.  Put the wire in the slot with the stick in a vertical orientation below the picture so it acts as a handle to hold the picture by the hanging wire just as it will hang on the wall.  Now you can line up the picture itself using a laser level.  Finally when you have the picture just where you want it you carefully hold the stick still and remove the picture.  The top of the stick is now exactly where you want the bottom of the picture hanging hook to be located.

You can use this technique to not only align pictures that are the same size so they are straight along a wall but also align pictures of different sizes so, for example, the center of each picture is aligned.  If you want to align pictures on their centers I measure the center of the frame and then put a piece of painters tape on the frame with a small mark. Then it is easy to line up the mark on a laser level. 

This works best with 2 people.  One person to hold the stick still and another to take the picture off the stick when it is in the correct position.  Otherwise the tendency is to move the stick slightly when the weight of the picture is removed.

Hope this helps.

 

[CrazyLarry]

i think i will get one of these. but when working with a mortar bit, what will you do?

Start with a multimaterial bit - less aggressive than a std mortar bit (both bosch and dewalt make good ones)
~ 3 - 4mm on rotary only if you can, at least for the first 5 - 10mm, this should give you a great deal more control.

If you still struggle with keeping the drill perpendicular, wolfcraft make a decent quality drill guide:
accurate enough to help but light enough for horizontal work, will work with any 43mm collar drill (eg PDC)
and gives you dust extraction too.

Then take [member=20162]Wuffles[/member] advice and repeat the process with the size bit you need for the final holes.

Alternatively mark the french cleats up against the wall fixing positions,
predrill them using a drill press and a bit the same size as your mortar bit , countersink, offer them up to the wall
(using a laser level is easiest) and then use them as a guide for the masonary bit
(again start on rotary and use percussion only if necc)

 

[mwildt]

Many galleries hangs pictures this way. They have a board mounted at the top of the wall where it intersects with the ceiling. Some time there is a curtain rod or t track mounted as well. Then they use wire cable or fishing line from there to the item they want to display,, pictures etc.

If your problem is straight holes then you could glue a bulls eye level on the drill handle to help guide you. Or you could use this kind of jig

http://www.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-4525404-Attachment-4-Inch-8-Inch/dp/B000JCIMEA/ref=pd_sim_469_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=41FFVQ2P9wL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR124%2C160_&refRID=1DD8PY8MTF9N2QJDRX1F

Since your in Greece I'm wondering if your drilling more into stone than a basic dry wall. If so could the reason for your problem be that the drill bit is walking on you ? Then try a small bit first followed by a larger one.

Again, if stone then Festool have a drill vacuum attachment that will get the dust, pretty nifty if drilling into a lot of stone walls.

 

[Peter_C]

Drilling with a masonry bit means a jig is useless since the bit has wings at the tip then tapers down. Once started though it might be possible to remove the bit from the drill and install the jig to continue deeper.

If dead level across the building is important a laser level might be in order, especially if the floor is not level.

Any vac can recover most of the dust by just holding it under the drill bit as you are drilling.

Another thought is to drill a slightly larger hole and glue studs in which will give you some wiggle room for straightening them. Of course that will be a very strong bond and not as easily removable.