Best Tools to get soon, to make money with?

[JeremyH.]

Hey guys... I need more money to buy more Festools! Actually I'd like to be able to afford, or entertain, the idea of having my own garage to work in, a truck (and I don't mean new), options to do anything at all with money for being a single guy on my own (well I have roommates). Right now it's a bit daunting to realize trying to purchase say a Joint Maker Pro2, could take me a year or so to save for without getting extra work. But it's on the list for doing extremely good work and not the crap most people are fine with. I've never been into mediocre anything; but have found myself surprised when sometimes "the best" isn't the best option.

Working 40hrs a week, sometimes with an extra 8-20hrs if I pick up a little work doing a few other things... well even when I'm just pulling 40hrs a week I still crash pretty much everyday after I've been home for a bit. My body temp drops a lot, and I recover but it seems to offset my sleeping quality and keeps my sinuses plugged. That's not a statement looking for health opinions; I need to rest more. Which brings me to a little bit of irony, that I'm asking what tools you guys recommend, that can help one seek income.

My problem is that when I get extra work it's for mere peanuts at a time. I'm slowly trying to collect enough tools to do cabinet installs on my own, on weekends, etc, but... I'm a ways away. (AC drill, Tracksaw, miter/jmpv2, clamps, draw saw, sawhorses, bits, jacks, compressor, and nail guns specifically) Given that a worthy tracksaw alone is over $1k investment... and I'd love to have a vacuum for the electric saws... I figured right now maybe I should think on something else? But this is where I'm asking advice.

I was looking at the Plano clamp system because I can do $400, and have access to planar, joiner, some of that stuff. But I can't do my own full bids or anything that competes with the shop (or that I don't have any experience with). I'd thought about a few fun projects that have low $ in that a panel clamp setup would do well. I'm contemplating one still, but as I've read the reality is you're best off with about $1200-1600 of frontline clamps x2 to get the two major widths for making cuttingboard/butcherblock size stuff with along with ordinary thickness panels. I'd be looking at buying one frontline clamp at a time, at their price. I'm still considering the Plano because one project idea doesn't require the boards to be anywhere near perfect and it allows me to keep it all out of the way without using anyone's clamps.

So the predicament is set. Right now I thought I might just spend the tiny bit of $ I've got on hand, on a Veritas drill kit, Festool Forstner bits (local, still in stock), and a Sys-2 container that I can add another mini to later. But I might even hold off on the Sys-2. I figure the bits are needed for installs etc, and my current boss who provides lots of tools isn't like me. There either isn't yet the budget or care for tools and precision I exert (or his decades of experience circumvent the need in many ways). Plus if I don't own any tools and I'm not employed, I got nothing.

Sooo thoughts?

 

[kevin clifford]

"Tools are a lifelong investment." By that my father meant, you will spend the rest of your life buying them. You won't have a shop full of tools in a day or a week or even a year.  Festool is a fantastic brand that we all seem to be hooked on, but some of the most talented people I have had the pleasure to work with don't own a single Festool.
Get the tools you need immediately to make your living.  Get a good set of drills and an impact driver. Dewalt has served me well for the last 18 years! A jigsaw that I bought 10 years ago still works great and has been used to scribe more cabinets then I care to count. Good levels and a belt sander should be on your list as well.
Watch the guys you are learning from and see what tools they use. If you can buy a jigsaw for $100 and it will get you through your first 30 cabinet jobs,when you are ready to buy a carvex and the accessories for $550 you can sell the old one for $50 on Craigslist and buy some new blades. Hope this helps, and good luck.
Kevin

 

[jacko9]

I think doing more research on what to buy is a good idea given the limited money you have to set up a very expensive cabinet business.  Here is a review on some affordable solutions to track saws and this is by no means a complete list of all available just a place to start.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/track-saw-review/

Jack

 

[JeremyH.]

This might sound counter-intuitive but I can barely make myself buy tools that I'll expect to be replacing anytime soon, and that I can't sell in a pinch. That is unless they're extremely cheap for the deal (I paid $15 for my jigsaw, that's basically an unused Hitachi).

You're right though, levels and a belt sander are very important. I've got the jigsaw that's ok. But I've found when installing that scribing is ALL about having a track if you want it to look good. The only cabinets I'd be installing aren't the cheapest around.

I bought a CXS to act as a drill, driver, and 90*. So far it's amazing.

Currently I don't have to buy anything to have my job, but I'm not depending on the situation existing forever. For that reason I'm very much seeking advice on what I might be able to make money with now. Perhaps that isn't a realistic idea but... I don't want to sit around idle so I can be screwed. Independence is a big deal to me, even when it's potential. Perhaps I could make a little more money elsewhere but without the benefit of the range of experience I get now at work (manufacturing cabinets, installing ours and ones made by others, some framing work, decking, commercial displays, spraying, etc etc). I like it, as things aren't so boring, but I'd like to graduate from the slave class. (it sounds like I have extra $ atm, but it's from selling a vehicle that was a gift that wasn't worth but a mere few hundred bucks)

 

[teocaf]

I had to read your post a couple of times;  there's some stream of consciousness rambling going on there.  In any case, I think I understand most of what you're going for there and it sure is a tall order.  You're getting frustrated being at the bottom of the ladder in terms of job and money and very anxious to get a full quiver of the finest tools as fast as possible.

Let's start with the tools you said you have (jigsaw and drill) and your stated interest in making some cutting boards and butcher block tops but you don't have the clamping setups yet.  So all you might need then is a little sander, sandpaper and butcher block oil.  I know of several people that started making unique shaped face grain cutting boards and got a little booth on weekends at the farmer's market and made money that way.  If you want to know the type of board I'm talking about, go to a design site like Remodelista and search cutting board.  They're the type of board that many people hang on the walls in rustic settings, etc.    If you don't have your weekends free, you can try to go around and wholesale them to people that already have booths and want to complement their own offerings.  As simple as it sounds, this is not foolproof.  It's still lots of work.  You can still "go broke on record sales".  You still need to be in an area where people can buy these somewhat impulsively--the right kind of farmer's market.  These being so simple to make, you will almost certainly have competition.  It helps if you can locate some interestingly grained wood cheaply and have some nice elegant shapes without getting too detailed so yours can stand out among the others.  If nothing else this type of approach will teach you loads about pricing your work, workflow and small batch production, how to tape up your blisters from doing so much sanding and lots and lots of opportunities for dealing with many types of personalities in the sales area, how to present yourself and your product, etc.  This type of hard won, first hand knowledge will be much more valuable to you going forward than the actual making of the boards.  So let's say you stick with that for long enough so it takes off, people start knowing you as the "board man" and you get a steady trickle of extra money coming in.  You have to discipline yourself to put most of that back into the business.  Don't buy loads of tools "just in case you might need them".  Get for example the clamping system you talked about and now you can make side grain butcher block counter tops and end grain cutting boards.  Stay somewhat focused and work with intent--probably the hardest thing for young guys to do--but hey, keep a page of the Festool catalog that shows your next tool in your wallet to help you stay on track.
Best of luck in your adventure dude!

p.s.  Notice I did not recommend making some boards and selling them on etsy.  Your little business might organically grow into that in due time because online has its own set of benefits, but counterintuitive as it may seem, it's a lot more hassle and therefore more expensive to do that right in the beginning on your budget.  Because you would have to deal with online accounts where everybody takes their cut, shipping, potentially more returns and many other costs.  You would instantly thrust yourself into huge competition right from the outset (just search for cutting boards on that site and you can see thousands of shops--all with great stuff but relatively few sales).  Learn how to do business at an arm's length right at the get go and believe me that will serve you well your whole life.

p.p.s.  I also think that the JMP you kept mentioning is a very cool tool especially for small scale model making.  I would say that it's improbable that you can make money with it easily or quickly,  but I realize that as soon as I say that, someone out there will undoubtedly prove me wrong.  I'm hoping that by the time they get to version 3, I will have a project in mind for something like that.

 

[Brent Taylor]

The best thing I think  for  you would be to organize your thoughts,  on paper or somewhere. Figure out what you can do that you can sell, then get what you need to reach that goal, then worry about what tools to get. I was always taught to buy the best you can afford,  there's a huge used market out there,  and with the Festooned and other high end tools there are a large supply of nearly new(if not new ) tools out there  (this will  piss off alot of people, but a large group just buy them because they can,then they get board or divorce and dump the stuff ) just keep your eyes open.  If you're good and lucky you will reach your goal. I did and I started at way below zero.  Left on my own at 9, been working ever since,  so you can make it.  Good luck

 

[WastedP]

When I first started as a cabinet installer, I picked up the bare minimum tools needed to screw boxes to walls: a cordless drill, a small cordless saw that I could make outlet cutouts with, and a four-foot Stabila level.  It was enough that I could go start a job before the guy I was working for showed up on site, but nothing I could pick up side work with.

But the best return on investment, without a doubt, was the purchase of basic laminate tools:  a trim router, a roller, a Virutex slitter, and some Plasti-Cut files.  Under $400 in tools (today's prices) can pay for themselves in one job.  A job you can start, finish, and install in under 48 hours.  In short time, people found out I could do countertops, so I obliged them (especially small vanity tops).  Laminate isn't glamorous, it's plastic over pressed sawdust, but it's profitable.  As long as stone, quartz, and solid surface countertops cost double or triple the price of laminate, there will be a market for it.

This is unrelated to the tools, but if you're going to do side work, cross your t's and dot your i's when it comes to complying with contracting laws.  If you go on anybody else's property to add or remove anything from the structure, you could be exposed.  You won't make any money if you get sued and don't have liability insurance.

If you get paid under the table and don't pay taxes on your earnings, don't worry: you will someday.  Same for sales at farmer's markets and craft shows.  I'm not paranoid, but if I was a revenue agent, I'd follow up on everyone I saw doing street vending.  An accountant's fees easily pay for themselves; I can attest that I have saved five figures by following advice that cost me a few hundred dollars.

 

[JeremyH.]

Ironically my former boss and current both do them (one just made a shop for them), so my circle of anyone I know highly excludes laminate counter-tops (extends to other installers). That's a great idea for someone however! I just did some extra work, demo to clear for a new business in an old space. I brought tools with me that I used a lot (especially my CXS), and unannounced to me I was only getting $10/hr. I haven't worked for that, even on the side, since who knows when... I could just stock groceries for that much, without my tools.

 

[jacko9]

Having the right tools for the job enhanse your chances of getting higher paying jobs.  My son is a foreman on commercial high rise buildings and when a new guy shows up on the job and tries to use a plumb bob 10 stories up in high winds he isn't coming back the next day.

Stick to quality tools that may last your lifetime and continue to work on your skills, it's a highly competitive world out there in construction. 

The last I heard grocery clerks have now been two tiered and the new workers will never get paid what the established folks were making.  Stick to construction it's one of the last high paying non-college educated jobs out there if you prove yourself to the right company.  Good luck on your quest.

Jack

 

[JeremyH.]

Oh, I got a degree... no one here cares.

But I have to say, when I see good tools still being used, 20 years later, it makes me why from bad stuff.

This weekend was ridiculous. It's easy to find people to work here; so long as you like dumb apes.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I think you need to look at getting tools to get you started on your own.  There nothing wrong with getting Dewalt, Bosch, Makita or Milwaukee.  You normally can find them on sale and you will be able to get more tools for the money.  All the tools that you are looking at are high priced,  and theres nothing wrong with that if you can afford them.  Being that your starting out theres more need on having the right tools even though they are not high end.  You can pick up high end tools over time.  Be patient,  the majority of carpenters dont start with Festool and other high end tools.  I have to admit, Festool makes my life easier!!! 

 

[Baartman]

I was in your position 5 years ago. I bought a whole bunch of used tools, and a big set of new cordless tools. Make sure the used tools are not stolen.

This allowed me to do a range of different work, and some jobs expanded after I began the job (this happens frequently). Slowly I began to see where my strengths and weaknesses were, and where I needed to invest in better tooling. I considered the tools I bought to be baby teeth, I absolutely needed them, I couldn't have survived without them. But in short order I had to get something permanent.

There are still some "baby teeth" in my repertoire, but are used for jobs I do infrequently, or I'll bring to job where I'm worried about security. These tend to be the type of job where the expensive tools aren't needed anyway.

I also have some "wisdom teeth". These are tools I bought because I thought I needed them, but turned out to useless to making money. Perhaps the analogy fails here, that I don't have to remove them, but the point here is you will make mistake purchases. We all do.

My main money making tools now are my table saw, a Bosch, my compressor, a Dewalt, and my drill, the CXS. Every other tool compliments these. These tools are the ones you should focus on to do cabinetry installs. A good jigsaw is also necessary, but I've never had a good jigsaw, so I've learned to rely on other methods to balance that out.

PS I own the lee valley drilling set, and it is a remarkably good set that will greatly increase efficiency, accuracy and consistency. The centotec system would be ideal, but I already own this one!

 

[JeremyH.]

Barrtman I never use wood screws so the tapered bits turned me away from it, what do you think? I was thinking of just buying a T-loc and some brad points and counter stinks, however.

 

[teocaf]

regarding best tools to get soon, it's possible that you already may have them.  one could make a good argument that there are only 2 tools that are mandatory, all the rest are optional.  the 2 tools aren't even festools.  they are:  a great attitude and an active mind.  what i mean by optional is that with some thinking you could make the few tools you own do multiple duties until more tools can be afforded.  for example you could mount your jigsaw upside down in a work table and carefully use it in place of a table saw for a while, etc.  lots of jigs and fixtures are available on this site and elsewhere.

but getting back to the two mandatory tools;  i was just now doing some google research on a blum ecodrill that another fogger bryan had mentioned in a recent thread.  up pops an article by another fogger whose name i did not know but i recognized him by his bandanna and have seen him on here posting his great built-ins from time to time.  looks like the story is posted in a blog by yet another fogger who is even better known- g. katz.  i wasn't even searching for anything related to festool but i guess all roads lead back to the FOG!

this story by kreg is from some years back yet it still contains very up to date info that pertains directly to some of your earlier concerns.  how to put yourself out there and offer small handy services and be ready to recommend other projects that you can do.  a very informative read on what a great attitude and an active mind can do.  there are also some great tips in the comments section at the end regarding how to price your work.

http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2009/10/01/making-money-built-ins/

i'm sure most on here are already familiar with his story. i'm probably the only one way behind on his reading, but i thought i would post a link before i get back to my other research.  hope you find it helpful. 

 

[WelshWood]

When I first started out doing carpentry and joinery, I saved and saved until I good afford to buy a decent amount of tools that would enable me to do the majority of works.

A Drill, SDS drill, jigsaw, circular saw, mitre saw, router and sander was what I initially bought, all for around £800 - £1,000.

Believe me, it was hard to save up at that time, but I knew that it's a worthwhile investment so I could do to a high quality finish.

Now the only item I have left is the mitre saw, and have replaced all the others with Festool products.

In my opinion, it's better to have a lower end version of a tool if your starting out, rather than not being able to have any form of the tool.

Hope this helps,

~WW

 

[JeremyH.]

Sadly I haven't been able to save any money. I get close but... working full time eats more money for food. A deer taking off my side view mirror didn't help either (even though I replaced it myself)

The blum stuff is nice, but I can use a Red Baron at work, so the blum stuff is kinda toy-ish by comparison.

Worse off the longer I work full time the harder it is to have energy for extra work.  :

I've actually been thinking about setting a goal for a Mafell saw that works on a track because they're so useful with quick angle setup, high depth, etc. But a Festool multitool is super nice because you can make holes in cabinets pretty easily without removing them to jigsaw or whatever. At first I thought they'd be good for dry wall but I'm so good with a razor blade knife that the multitool would look sloppy at this point.

 

[JeremyH.]

for example you could mount your jigsaw upside down in a work table and carefully use it in place of a table saw for a while, etc.  lots of jigs and fixtures are available on this site and elsewhere.

I love ideas like this....