Best way to create solid wood panel to fit into frame

[cliffp]

I am building a chest of drawers out of solid European oak. I decided to use frame and panel construction to allow for wood movement. The frames are 40mm square (see diagram below) and I want to fit a panel in a slot in these frame members such that it is inset by 5mm. My first attempt was to use a bandsaw to cut 5mm thick slices of oak and edge joint these. I then glued them onto some 6mm ply in the hope that the resulting laminate would be relatively stable. Firstly the edge jointed oak warped badly. Then when I glued this to the ply, this ended up badly warped as well! I finally thought that if I glued this laminate onto some 17mm exterior ply this thick tough slab would haul everything into line - well it didn't! I have decided to give up on the panels I have made thus far (in fact I wrecked one trying to flatten it with an electric hand planer). It is worth pointing out that I did try and clamp the panel laminates flat and even ended up making cauls which didn't work. If anyone reads this and thinks I must be an absolute plonker, I wouldn't disagree!

I would be grateful for any suggestions on how to do this properly.

 

[Mitchwood]

Hi Cliff
You can buy 5mm old oak top layers they are priced at about £30 per square meter plus any carriage, they are all kiln dried and flat. If you want to attach to ply you need a high quality ply that is at least 12mm thick. Alternatively purchase lengths of good quality unfinished oak engineered floor, square up the edges and join them to make your panel. Finally you could construct them from solid oak 19mm or 20mm thick that is kiln dried using rough sawn planks machined on your planer.
Hope that helps.
 

 

[mattfc]

Did you laminate the ply on both sides? If you stick the oak on one side it will warp, you need a balancer

I would just buy oak veneered mdf or ply

 

[Mitchwood]

Posted by: mattfc
« on: Today at 06:29 AM » Insert Quote
Did you laminate the ply on both sides? If you stick the oak on one side it will warp, you need a balancer

You only need to glue to one side, engineered flooring on ply is only glued to the one side and does not warp!

Oak faced MDF is also a possibility as mattfc suggests, it comes face on both sides, 10mm thick would probably be a good size to go for.

 

[mattfc]

You only need to glue to one side, engineered flooring on ply is only glued to the one side and does not warp!

I am not sure that this is helpful advice. If you are creating a composite board where it is all glued at once as is an engineered floor then that is one thing, which done with industrial presses and heat activated glues so is a fixed and controlled environment.

If you however introduce moisture (glue) to one side of a board then you should do the same on the other, same is even true for paint. Same why plywood always has an odd number of ply's, a core then one each side

You might get away with veneering just one side, but its always riskier. That why veneer shops sell cheaper balancing veneers

 

[cliffp]

Thanks a lot for the replies! I think I will consider oak veneer.

 

[mike_aa]

Sorry, I'm a bit late in replying.  The frame of your piece is what will bear the weight so a thinner panel would be adequate and also help to lighten the weight a bit.  That being said, when I see your diagram, you don't have a frame member at the top of the panel.  You might consider adding that in the construction to provide strength, square everything up, and reduce the need for a thicker panel.  The panel could then simply float in its space. 

In your initial post, you said the oak warped after you bandsawed it.  Was the wood dry enough to begin with?  Did you let it acclimate after bandsawing before you started to machine it?

Oak veneer would be fine, however if you wanted to still explore solid wood, your oak is plenty strong to use in as little as 12mm thickness. I used some local red oak here in the states to make drawers from by bandsawing and machining 10mm strips from thicker pieces and they were strong enough for the task.

Good luck!

Mike A.

 

[cliffp]

Thanks for the reply Mike. You are correct about there not being a frame member at the top of the panel. I did consider adding one but didn't think it would look good. My original idea was to use a thinner panel of oak, and to square everything up and add strength, I was going to attach a panel of mdf essentially parallel to the oak one, but not into slots as there would have been no need to worry about movement. This panel would have been flush with the inside of the frame and would have been convenient for attaching the slide runners. I toyed with the idea of using 10mm thick oak with 3 cross members (at right angle to the grain) to prevent warping, but decided against this as I didn't think there would be enough room for the 5mm inset, 10mm oak, 13mm mdf (inner panel) and a cross member thick enough to provide adequate strength (40mm frame - 5 -10-13 = 12mm ie not enough!). These cross members were not going to attach to the frame as they needed to be part of the floating oak panel. I decided instead to laminate a thinner 5mm panel (arguably a thick veneer) of oak to 6mm plywood thinking that the combination would be stable - wrong!

The oak had been kiln dried and had acclimatised for a month or so in the bedroom before I planed it flat and bandsawed it. It had a moisture content of 8% if I remember correctly. I didn't let it acclimatise after bandsawing. I just thicknessed it (planed it).

Maybe I should go with my first idea with cross members and instead of using a complete panel of mdf for strengthening, I could use a single piece of wood - effectively a top frame member but only on the inside so it wouldn't be seen.

Alternatively, I could try and be more careful about selecting wood less likely to warp (ie quarter sawn or without tight radius rings in the cross section) moisture control, allowing the wood to stabilise after bandsawing and making sure that I alternate the grain direction (I have forgotten to do this on more than one occasion).

 

[mike_aa]

Based on what you just wrote, I'm not sure why you experienced the oak warping the way it did.  Not being there, it's hard to offer more suggestions, but you also mentioned the oak veneer.  That sounds like it might be the most stable at this point and maybe simpler to fit.  Although, as another poster mentioned, you may want to consider veneering both sides (one with a lesser quality veneer) of the panel to further ensure it remains stable.

Let us know what you decide to do and how it works out!

Good luck, Mike A.

 

[cliffp]

Thanks again Mike. If I did use veneer, it would be veneered mdf bought in - this is veneered on both sides so would be ok for stability. I may have another go using thinner solid oak panels. Whether I do this or not may depend on the state, moisture-wise, of the oak boards in my garage (I only brought in enough wood for this project and didn't allow a big enough margin of error for mistakes). These may well have become more moist over the winter.

I'll update this thread with the outcome.

Cliff