best way to show a Newbie the advantage of the FESTOOL Track Saw vs table saws

[JohnnyEgo]

The price of entry determines your market.  You are going to appeal to tradesman and hobbyists with disposable income.  Both of them are going to value time as much or more than money.  People who value the money in their pockets more than their time are unlikely to appreciate any of the merits of these systems.  They will argue that they can do the same things for less money with all sorts of work-arounds.  You will be able to tell who these people are within two minutes of talking with them, and the best approach for both of you will be to acknowledge their point and disengage from the conversation. 

If you think you've got the right audience for your product, then I got sold on the TS55 because I could break down sheet goods fast and straight with a minimal amount of set-up or time.  I am a hobbyist with money, but not time.  These systems allow me to get the most out of my shop time by saving me set-up and clean-up time, and that is well worth the cost to me.

 

[Klemm]

thanks all for the nuggets of wisdom in this thread.
Can we  find someone to volunteer to summarize the key points in this thread? that would be a great reference and body of knowledge to pass along.

My original post  was prompted by my desire to help someone in a distant state make a helpful and reasonably objective choice for their particular circumstance. I'll run with what I now have.
thanks All,
Hans

 

[peter halle]

As usual I am late to the party.  The easiest way to illustrate the advantages in my mind is to draw two pencil lines on a full sheet of plywood that would represent a diagonal cut, drop the rail on the two points, and then make the cut.  Then simply state that trying to do that on a table saw that mortals can afford just isn't going to happen.  Especially in a 10 x 12 shop.

Tool to work not vice versa.

Peter

 

[Holmz]

The topic says, "best way to show a Newbie the advantage of the FESTOOL Track Saw vs table saws".

Will that include an advantage over a deWalt track saw?
Or
Is it any track saw over any table saw?
Or
A TS-55 versus a contractor tablesaw?

 

[Tinker]

As usual I am late to the party.  The easiest way to illustrate the advantages in my mind is to draw two pencil lines on a full sheet of plywood that would represent a diagonal cut, drop the rail on the two points, and then make the cut.  Then simply state that trying to do that on a table saw that mortals can afford just isn't going to happen.  Especially in a 10 x 12 shop.

Tool to work not vice versa.

Peter

I also had gotten here late.  As i was reading thru all of the replies (waiting for rain to stop so I can get out to earn some $$$) I kept thinking of which saw can set up and make a diagonal cut on a sheet of ply wood easily and acurately?  Peter beat me to it.
Tinker

 

[pixelated]

I think the biggest problem in introducing someone to a track saw is explaining how it is different than using a skill saw with a long clamp-on guide. IMO for anyone who has cut down at least one sheet of plywood using that method the advantages of a track saw are pretty clear if the nuances are explained.

 

[semenza]

I think the biggest problem in introducing someone to a track saw is explaining how it is different than using a skill saw with a long clamp-on guide. IMO for anyone who has cut down at least one sheet of plywood using that method the advantages of a track saw are pretty clear if the nuances are explained.

Yes, and in particular getting peoples thinking away from the idea that they are "breaking down" sheet goods ......... to then be finish cut on a table saw. Important to point out that the finish cuts are being made by the track saw.

Seth

 

[clark_fork]

Case Study:

Last night a friend came over. He is traditional hobby woodworker, average skill level. His aim is to build some built-in book cases. His question was how to deal with sheets of plywood. He has an older Craftsman table saw and he worried about struggling with making  his cuts. He thought he might also use a straight edge clamp and run his Skil-saw along an edge clamped to the plywood.

As it happens, I am building a small low rise assembly table and needed to cut a panel 26 1/2 by 39 from a sheet of 18mm Baltic Ply.

In a short time, I had my centipede up with a Styrofoam sheet and the ply on top. Measured once, applied the rail and cut the sheet across 26 1/2, then turned the sheet, applied the rail and cut to length the 39 inches. Put away centipede and Styrofoam sheet. His comment was, "you only measured one time for each cut." 

We forget the efficiency of measuring once and not running around the other side to make a second measure and drawing a line to follow or clamping on a guide etc. Bottom line, he was completely persuaded with the tipping point, the ability to cut squarely by making one measure.

He was also impressed with the clean cut, and the rail cut was a final cut, not a cut that had to be finished on the table saw.

Yes, I mentioned the four S's... Straight, Square, Smooth and Safe.

I also showed off the Festool Triangle Work Process.. Track saw... Rail and MFT/3 set up with dogs. So the next step will be making him his own MFT with the UJK Parf Guide kit.

 

[RussellS]

His comment was, "you only measured one time for each cut."

Measure twice, cut once.

 

[tjbnwi]

Case Study:

Last night a friend came over. He is traditional hobby woodworker, average skill level. His aim is to build some built-in book cases. His question was how to deal with sheets of plywood. He has an older Craftsman table saw and he worried about struggling with making  his cuts. He thought he might also use a straight edge clamp and run his Skil-saw along an edge clamped to the plywood.

As it happens, I am building a small low rise assembly table and needed to cut a panel 26 1/2 by 39 from a sheet of 18mm Baltic Ply.

In a short time, I had my centipede up with a Styrofoam sheet and the ply on top. Measured once, applied the rail and cut the sheet across 26 1/2, then turned the sheet, applied the rail and cut to length the 39 inches. Put away centipede and Styrofoam sheet. His comment was, "you only measured one time for each cut." 

We forget the efficiency of measuring once and not running around the other side to make a second measure and drawing a line to follow or clamping on a guide etc. Bottom line, he was completely persuaded with the tipping point, the ability to cut squarely by making one measure.

He was also impressed with the clean cut, and the rail cut was a final cut, not a cut that had to be finished on the table saw.

Yes, I mentioned the four S's... Straight, Square, Smooth and Safe.

I also showed off the Festool Triangle Work Process.. Track saw... Rail and MFT/3 set up with dogs. So the next step will be making him his own MFT with the UJK Parf Guide kit.

I assume you were using a track square? (otherwise you would need to measure ad mark twice tho set the rail)

Tom

 

[Michael Kellough]

I too was wondering if Clark had discovered some trick that in 13 years of using the track saw had eluded me. I still have to make two marks to set the rail parallel to the opposite side.

The TSO GRS-16 might change that, but you still need to make an end square first to use the GRS to make a side parallel.

 

[clark_fork]

I too was wondering if Clark had discovered some trick that in 13 years of using the track saw had eluded me. I still have to make two marks to set the rail parallel to the opposite side.

The TSO GRS-16 might change that, but you still need to make an end square first to use the GRS to make a side parallel.

Yup!

[attachimg=1]

Killer App

 

[kixnbux]

If they can try one out they'll buy. Just watching videos sold me immediately. Jobsite work dealing with janky circular saw cuts no more. Perfect about cabinet grade cutting no matter what it's on.  Serious time saver. But there's always the guys that time is worthless too and those aren't worth explaining to lol

 

[mlkm18]

Breaking down sheets - Track saw
in-situ 'jointer work' - Track saw
Long rips on long boards - Track saw
Repeatable cuts - Track saw with Woodpecker parallel guide

Narrow rips  - Table saw
small pieces - Table saw with sled, or pull saw

 

[Tinker]

Breaking down sheets - Track saw
in-situ 'jointer work' - Track saw
Long rips on long boards - Track saw
Repeatable cuts - Track saw with Woodpecker parallel guide

Narrow rips  - Table saw
small pieces - Table saw with sled, or pull saw

I agree will your list except for the narrow rips.  I do use my table saw for narrow rips on short pieces. That I agree with.
The track saw is still much easier for narrow rips on long pieces. My shop does not have space to do rips on anything much longer the 3 feet in length on the table saw.
Tinker

 

[Holmz]

Breaking down sheets - Track saw
in-situ 'jointer work' - Track saw
Long rips on long boards - Track saw
Repeatable cuts - Track saw with Woodpecker parallel guide

Narrow rips  - Table saw
small pieces - Table saw with sled, or pull saw

I agree with that  [wink]

 

[grbmds]

One way is to attend a Festool Essentials class. I took that class long after I bought a number of Festools including the TS55 and MFT. They are a bit pricey for someone who is just trying to understand the tool and whether it will work for him, but the Essentials class is the best place to understand what the TS55, MFT, routers, Domino, and Kapex can do for a professional or anyone who is a woodworker. I was fortunate enough to be able to take a single day class at a woodworking store in Champaign, Illinois that completely focused on the basics of the TS55, Carvex, OF1400, and Domino. After that, although it was only an overview, and geared to some degree to sell Festools to the attendees, I was sold on the saw, MFT, router, and CT. That is the best way to understand the uniqueness of some of the Festools; take a hands-on class. There is nothing better than a Festool knowledgeable person combined with hands-on work with the tools even if you already own and use the tools.

Other than that, if the person is visual, I believe there are many videos online which will provide the basics.

 

[RussellS]

Long rips on long boards - Track saw
Repeatable cuts - Track saw with Woodpecker parallel guide

No.  As you stated the on site jointer work is best with the track saw.  But once that is done, all rips are then best done on the table saw.  If you have a 2 inch wide board, how are you going to rip that down to 1.5 inches with the track saw?  For repeatable cuts, a table saw sled all day long.  Clamp a block to the fence.  Set the fence block the right distance from the blade.  Cut all day long with ease.

 

[tjbnwi]

Not being able to make narrow rips with the TS 55 is a fallacy.

These were all ripped with the TS 55. All are within 0.003 in thickness no blade bark at entry or exit. 

I've done rips as long as 16' this way as thin as 1/8".

Very easy to do even on stock less than 1" wide.

Tom

 

[Svar]

Not being able to make narrow rips with the TS 55 is a fallacy.

Nobody is saying its impossible. Its simply less efficient.