Better miter saw for dust collection??

[Toolpig]

Sorry if you're reading this twice -- I also posted at sawmillcreek.org.

I have a DeWalt chop-saw hooked up to my Festool CT22 vacuum (talk about "The beauty and the beast!"). The dust-collection with the DeWalt is less than stellar.

Which miter saw puts out the least dust when connected to a shop-vac? I'm talking out of the box -- not with some aftermarket shroud or homemade setup. Soft-start would be a nice feature, too!

TP

 

[Dave Rudy]

Well, Kapex, of course.  Is there any other answer?

 

[mastercabman]

Which miter saw puts out the least dust when connected to a shop-vac? I'm talking out of the box -- not with some aftermarket shroud or homemade setup. Soft-start would be a nice feature, too!

TP

are you looking for a slider?if so,you are out of luck!i don't think any of them are any good with dust control.i have read a lots of reviews on those saws (all make and model) and none came close to be acceptable.i have the bosch 3915 and if i hook up a vac,it still blow dust behind the blade.when i looked at the kapex.there is a rubber like dust shield right behind the blade.it could be the answer to our problem.i'm also looking for a saw with a good dust control.i'm sorry that i can't help you at this time.

 

[pteubel]

I have a Dewalt, Porter Cable, Ryobi, and Ridgid. The only one that has good dust collection is the Ridgid....a full 2 1/4" port that a regular shopvac wand fits into. It's not 100% but I would rate it at %85 while the others are down in the >40% range.

 

[Toolpig]

I hope so, seeing as you can't get the Kapex here in the U.S.

So.... anybody got something that works a little better than my dust-belching DeWalt?

TP

Well, Kapex, of course.  Is there any other answer?

 

[Mike_Chrest]

  I have a Hitachi 10" slider, it has a flexable skirt below the blade but most of the dust gets by it even with the CT 22 hooked up. I think I read in the forum here that the Kapex has dust collection below the blade as well as from the dust port above the blade.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I took a cue from the Kapex design and taped a piece of vinyl to the back side of the blade housing on my 12 year old Bosch slider today. That made a huge difference, with a Fein vac connected to the dust bag port.

On my Bosch which tilts left only (don't recall the model number) the right side fence is tall and close to the blade. This interferes with the travel of my vinyl dust diverter and it got chewed up a bit. The benefit of adding the vinyl is so dramatic that I'm seriously considering cutting the upper corner off the fence.

Without such a dust diverter there is little chance for a diffuse vacuum eight inches away and perpendicular to the direction of the dust stream to capture anything except the fine stuff that bounces off the back of pivot casting. I had previously gotten good results with a large chute shaped surround of filter bag material connected to my central dust collection system but that was not portable.

 

[Marco F.]

Perhaps instead of being pressed to buy a saw based on its dust collection you should get one of these.http://www.rousseauco.com/downdrafter/index.htm

They work extremely well and you don't have to worry about a saw dust collection performance but rather the cutting performance. Best thing is it works on all my saws so I don't have use just one if dust collection is an issue.

Marco

 

[mot]

My only problem with the downdrafter is I don't have that kind of room behind my saw.  As far as my shop goes, the SCMS is the major culprit in my dust control problem.  If it had a smaller footprint, I would consider the downdrafter, but I'm 31" out from the wall already.  That is the reason I'll probably buy a Kapex.  It will afford me better dust collection, and dramatically reduce the footprint of the saw.  Plus, with my newly diagnosed, FPD, I can't seem to think of other solutions to a problem other than Festool.  :

 

[Marco F.]

My only problem with the downdrafter is I don't have that kind of room behind my saw.  As far as my shop goes, the SCMS is the major culprit in my dust control problem.  If it had a smaller footprint, I would consider the downdrafter, but I'm 31" out from the wall already.  That is the reason I'll probably buy a Kapex.  It will afford me better dust collection, and dramatically reduce the footprint of the saw.  Plus, with my newly diagnosed, FPD, I can't seem to think of other solutions to a problem other than Festool.   :

Two words that don't belong together are Festool and Afford. I hate to be a party pooper but there is no way in this world that I would consider spending close to or over a grand on a saw just because it offers better dust collection. Not when I'm perfectly happy with my current saws, which are the top of the line saws now and they only cost me around 550 apiece. Im not saying that they will not be great machines but the reason I buy Festool is they offer things that others are not providing such as features on the rotex, the TS 55, and the Domino. I personally cannot justify the cost over the benefits. Just my personal opinion on the matter. 

Marco

 

[Ray Newman]

I "dunno" just how effective (or “universal”) the DownDrafter really is.

I have the 10" Hitachi SCMS & 'bout 5 yrs. ago bought a DownDrafter for it. Hooked it up to the Oneida cyclone DC via a 6“ hose.

When utilized as a chop saw, the DownDrafter worked well. But when making cuts in the sliding mode, it was very inefficient.

It also occupied a great deal of space behind the saw.

Michael K: can you post a picture of your "modification"? I think I understand what you did.

 

[Ted Miller]

Two words that don't go together is Power Miter Box and Dust Collection, I have tried it all and nothing really works that well. If you get 50% to go into your DC connection then you have a good set up. Using a SCMS is even worse since the collection wooden box has to be really open for the 45s and bevels. Downdrafters look great but most CMs are against the wall with no room behind the saw.

Marco, I like using Festool products at clients homes, the DC is so great that I can do work right there in any room with minimal dust and if there is any dust from the TS 75 I can DC it up in seconds and it looks like I was never there. The other Festools I use there is no dust left behind at all. You would be surprised the clients that will pay just to have you work clean in their homes. Also I can now break down full sheet stock without wrestling sheets on my TS and the cuts are perfect ready to go, my lower back loves it...

 

[Marco F.]

Two words that don't go together is Power Miter Box and Dust Collection, I have tried it all and nothing really works that well. If you get 50% to go into your DC connection then you have a good set up. Using a SCMS is even worse since the collection wooden box has to be really open for the 45s and bevels. Downdrafters look great but most CMs are against the wall with no room behind the saw.

Marco, I like using Festool products at clients homes, the DC is so great that I can do work right there in any room with minimal dust and if there is any dust from the TS 75 I can DC it up in seconds and it looks like I was never there. The other Festools I use there is no dust left behind at all. You would be surprised the clients that will pay just to have you work clean in their homes. Also I can now break down full sheet stock without wrestling sheets on my TS and the cuts are perfect ready to go, my lower back loves it...

I agree that the dust collection on the TS 55 and the sanders ect. are great, I use them frequently and my customers greatly appreciate the lack of dust. The point I'm making is how much is that dust collection worth to you. Personally I have never found it acceptable to use my miter-saw in a house that a home owner is already living in. Also I have never encountered a need to setup a miter-saw in an occupied house. My major point behind this is spending over a grand on a Miter-box is ALOT of money. And to justify the purchase because you want better dust control is hard to understand because I strongly doubt it will completely
eliminate dust. Especially when you consider the cost of other top end miter-saws. This isn't to say they will not be great saws and that you shouldn't buy it. I just feel its a huge price to pay for saw dust. Just my $.02

Marco

 

[mastercabman]

Two words that don't go together is Power Miter Box and Dust Collection, I have tried it all and nothing really works that well. If you get 50% to go into your DC connection then you have a good set up. Using a SCMS is even worse since the collection wooden box has to be really open for the 45s and bevels. Downdrafters look great but most CMs are against the wall with no room behind the saw.

Marco, I like using Festool products at clients homes, the DC is so great that I can do work right there in any room with minimal dust and if there is any dust from the TS 75 I can DC it up in seconds and it looks like I was never there. The other Festools I use there is no dust left behind at all. You would be surprised the clients that will pay just to have you work clean in their homes. Also I can now break down full sheet stock without wrestling sheets on my TS and the cuts are perfect ready to go, my lower back loves it...

I agree that the dust collection on the TS 55 and the sanders ect. are great, I use them frequently and my customers greatly appreciate the lack of dust. The point I'm making is how much is that dust collection worth to you. Personally I have never found it acceptable to use my miter-saw in a house that a home owner is already living in. Also I have never encountered a need to setup a miter-saw in an occupied house. My major point behind this is spending over a grand on a Miter-box is ALOT of money. And to justify the purchase because you want better dust control is hard to understand because I strongly doubt it will completely
eliminate dust. Especially when you consider the cost of other top end miter-saws. This isn't to say they will not be great saws and that you shouldn't buy it. I just feel its a huge price to pay for saw dust. Just my $.02

Marco

i agree,you shouldn't buy a saw just because it has great dust control.you need to get a saw that suits you,and that you can afford.it looks to me that the kapex has good dust control.(i could be wrong).but the kapex is more than just good dust control.it's about the way it is designe.maybe the kapex is far more better than any saw you ever use.if it is, i will consider getting it.even if it cost over a $1000.00. but i'm not getting the saw just for dust control. (or maybe because it's a festool! )

 

[Ted Miller]

Marco, Sorry I did not pay attention to the thread. I have never and would never set up a Miter Box in anyones home, I meant the TS 75/55 and the other Festools that the DC is great and I pay the extra money for the DC and the well built tools.

Kapex I cannot see myself buying that since I already own two 12" and one 10" miter so no need for another...

 

[Toolpig]

There are absolutely times when it's a good idea to set up a miter saw inside a home -- especially if you're installing new trim.  I absolutely HATE having to run up and down the stairs a ga-zillion times whenever I'm "sneaking up" on a cut.

TP

Marco, Sorry I did not pay attention to the thread. I have never and would never set up a Miter Box in anyones home, I meant the TS 75/55 and the other Festools that the DC is great and I pay the extra money for the DC and the well built tools.

Kapex I cannot see myself buying that since I already own two 12" and one 10" miter so no need for another...

 

[Loren Hedahl]

What's the chance that a TS55 and MFT could take the place, functionally, of a miter saw? 

Especially for those times when it might be needed in a occupied home?

Loren

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Loren, I do a lot of trim, all of it in occupied homes, IMHO, the MTF is far to slow to set to the angles, compared to a miter saw. And the angle unit is not precise enough for trim work. Maybe in you already had the MTF set up for another project and you only had a little bit of trim to do and you left the miter saw at home and....well you get the point. 

 

[Llap Goch]

Hi Loren

I echo what Brice has said. The MFT/TS combo is excellent for straight cuts and you can do mitres but you will need to finish/fill. Plus compound mitres are a no-no. Though I am still learning the foibles of the Kapex it is perfect for mitre cutting, at all angles and, using the angle guide, is very accurate. But for mitre joins that you could not put a ciggy paper through the Festool Symetric is the one with its superb auto dividing fence. If only the Kapex had it .....

On dust collection, the Kapex is very good. Not excellent but I am more than happy to use her indoors.

Pat

 

[Michael Kellough]

The Kapex is variable speed isn't it?

I've learned that with any tool connected to a vacuum cleaner if the cutting speed and feed rate are reduced a lot less dust is missed by the vacuum.

I seldom take my Bosch 3915 to a client's home because it is insanely dusty but I do take an 18v Makita cordless slider if the stock is small enough to suit the smaller saw. With it's narrower kerf, smaller diameter blade, and lower RPM the cordless slider throws much less dust less far and at a lower velocity so the vac can actually do pretty well keeping up with it. I also added "cheeks" to the side of the bevel housing to deflect some of the dust back towards the dust port.

I was reminded of this the other day when I needed to cut down a piece of MDF to take to the table saw. The Festool saw was away at the job site so I used an old 9.6v Makita cordless saw. The old timer was barely able to do it but what was amazing is that there was a mound of MDF dust 3/4" wide and a half inch tall and 49 inches long, but no dust in the air.

So, if the Kapex has variable speed in addition to it's other dust collection features you can reduce the speed and feed rate to catch a higher percentage of the dust.