Better Table Saw or Better Band Saw?

[Ashlee52]

I am just about to move into my new shop. We were lucky and I'll have lots of space.

I had planned a largely Festool set up using a combination of the MFT and the flexible bench systems described in the Joshua Finn Fine Woodworking article. Largely, I believe in taking the tools to the wood, and having complete flexibility in the space. I'll have a good jointer and planer, a decent dust collector, and I have both a Jet 14" Band saw and Bosch 4000 Table saw from my old shop. I had planned to replace the table saw with the coming SawStop intermediate saw.

My goal is to have a completely safe, and clean shop. I really value both... my fingers and lungs are equally important to me. And the shop is in the same building as living space... with forced air heating that can spread dust if given the chance. I'm old, partially retired, and treating myself to the perfect refuge.

Over the weekend I built 8 Finn style tables working in a garage with both Festool Rail Saws and the Bosch table saw (ripping up 2x12's to get straight clear 2x4's. (The wood they use to cut 2x12s is the straightest clearest wood. They make 2x4s from the worst.) The danger and dust from the table saw really got me grumpy. About all I can see I need a table saw for in the future is that sort of ripping... the TS 75 completely "owns" crosscuts. And in a shop built around a sawhorse system, a rail saw can easily handle even ripping of sheet goods.

So my question is this... for the money is the SawStop cabinet style saw going to be cleaner and safer... or for less money do I get a Laguna 16 inch band saw with the 1" carbide ripping blade and make that my ripping saw? Would there be a dust advantage to the band saw? Are band saw tables and fences up to ripping long boards.?

I'd still have the Bosch which I could often wheel outside should I absolutely need a table saw for something.

Or is the best table saw you can buy (SawStop, I think) still the cornerstone of a well equiped shop? Its funny to have a situation where the Laguna would be a "cheaper" option, but in this case it might be. Similarly, its funny that Festools can be a cheaper option... but if they can actually replace a saw stop, or other high end cabinet saw, maybe they are.

I haven't used the Festools long enough to know if I could do without either a better table saw or better ripping band saw. I have the new parallel guide coming... maybe with that they can?

It seems to me like somebody needs to actually invent a new type of saw... a ripping saw, probably based on a band saw but with long fold down tables and fences and superb dust collection.

I build furniture and plan to build some boats... but mostly it seems I build shops.

I'd welcome suggestions, particularly from those who have tried to get the dusty table saw out of their lives.

 

[rwdawson]

Ashlee,

I keep thinking table saw is the center of any work shop, but if you are going to build boats, then the band saw will probably be more useful.

Being new to this forum, you might not be familiar with either John Lucas or Jerry Work.  I suggest you check some of their posts on this forum and get a good look at their websites; what they have to say should prove very helpful.

Welcome to one of the best web sites of any kind in the world.  There's a lot of good people here with a lot of good information.

Regards,

Richard

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi Ashlee52,

The quick answer from my POV is a band saw is way better and way safer than any US/SEA style table saw.  The Sawstop is the best of this type because it has a real riving knife in addition to the blade stop stuff, but without a sliding table is still way behind the European sliding table centric saws.  If you work mainly with solid woods as I do, then there is no question.  Get a 12" jointer/planer combo and a quality band saw like a Minimax (Centaro - sp? - with SCMI motor, switches, etc.).  Aggazani - sp? - also makes a good unit.  Check closely the rep Laguna has for customer service before going that direction.  Probably the best bang for the buck is the MM 20 but any Italian band saw with a 1" carbide blade (I prefer Lenox) is miles ahead of everything else from my experience.  No matter where you buy your hard woods to properly prep stock you need to joint one face and one edge, then rough rip to width and thickness on the band saw, then plane to exact dimension.  This process will produce far better stock for any work you do, has better dust collection and, most importantly, is way, way safer than using any table saw and rip fence combination.  Do all your dados and sliding dovetail grooving with the guided rail router.  Dado heads on table saws are illegal in most parts of the world for a good safety reason.  Once you learn to properly use the guided rail sawing and routing, the jointer and planer and the band saw you will probably forget all about a table saw.  Most all of us learned woodworking on radial arm saws (yikes!) or table saws so have had decades of trial and error to try to overcome the limitations.  Put one tenth that amount of effort learning a new way and you will enjoy a rest-of-your-lifetime of safe, clean woodworking.  Hope this helps.

Jerry

 

[tvogel400]

Welcome Ashlyee52

I have a sawstop 5hp cabinet saw in my shop- It is hands down the finest cabinet saw I have ever used.

It has plenty of power, it's guts are machined beautifully, and the riving knife goes on and off with the flick of a lever-sublime.

However DC is kinda lacking- with the addition of a baffle or two I bet it would be fine, if your DC has got real power(mine doesn't) you should be good.

The fence, a beismeyer copy, is really solid if a little bindy-it needs a little more space tween the fence rail and its bracket, saw dust gets in there.

Having said all that the stop feature works really, really well and is very reassuring. I will never not have a sawstop saw ever again.

As for the table saw vs band saw question, I vote for the table saw it is just so much more versatile than a band saw(think rabbots and dado heads) plus

you already have a band saw.

T-bone

 

[mohrab]

Welcome Ashlyee52

I have been struggling with the same decision but have pretty much decided to just use my existing table saw for awhile (not upgrade it).  Since you mentioned you like Josh Finn's workbench solution, I thought you might be interested in what I have done with it (pic).  The Shopsmith is on the way out of my shop so ignore it.  I have bought a band saw (Jerry Work's suggestion) and find I am using my table saw less and less.
[attachimg=#1]

 

[Ashlee52]

Mohrab

I love the crosscut Finn table. Its a modern day RAS with Festool quality. But how do you keep the rail in exactly the same position when you put new/sequential boards under it to make duplicate cuts?

Ash

 

[mohrab]

Instead of clamping the guide rail you should clamp a stop that the guide rail could rest against.  I have found the weight of the torsion boxes is sufficient to keep them from moving.  I fastened the Kreg fence with knobs and T-nuts so it is easily removed.  The same could be done with a clamp at the other end of the rail (needs to be adjustable).

I am past the age where I want to work on the floor and have found it much easier to slide sheet goods out of my truck while walking between the torsion boxes.  Once I get rid of the Shopsmith I plan to stack the torsion boxes on the sawhorses against the wall so they leave room for other activities like maintaining my tractor!

My shop is small.  If you have room you should look up the post by Steve Jones - his cutting table was really my inspiration. 

 

[Ashlee52]

I built a total of 9 of the Finn style tables, with various sized tops. So now I can create flat space as well as support in any configuration I want... so I can flex the shop layout around the task at hand. I'll probably build a number of jigging arrangements to create fences and stops on the tables as needed... and may add a grid of 20 mm holes to some. I also built a cutting top from a hollow core door and foam insulation. I agree.. I am too old to work on the floor.

 

[Ashlee52]

I'll probably end up with the Saw Stop... it's just the dust from any table saw I have ever owned is so problematic... and band saws seem so much better behaved in that area. Do the better saws actually keep all that fine dust out of the air?

 

[polarsea1]

I have a Laguna TSS sliding table saw and wouldn't trade it for a half dozen Sawstops. But if I were going to buy a new saw in the same price range I'd buy the new Laguna Pro slider. I have firsthand experience with Laguna and I've never had anything but good service.  99% of the negative comments I've seen are from people that don't have firsthand experience with the company.

As far as ripping on a bandsaw then taking it to another peice of machinery - all I can say is at 67 I'm slow enough already (ask my wife).  ;D

 

[James Watriss]

I have a laguna 18" with the carbide blade, and a Sawstop 3hp.

The sawstop is a really fine machine, no question. But so is the Laguna, and their resaw blade for ripping makes cleaner cuts than anything I've mounted on the table saw so far. (I've tried various freud blades, CMT, and others) And in the end, while I appreciate the ability to rip dadoes with the table saw, the only real advantage it has for me is in handling sheets of plywood. And I don't really like ripping plywood on the table saw... I'd rather use the Festool saw.

One other advantage of an 18" band saw... lower table height. It's a much more workable height for large pieces of wood, so the work is a lot easier to do. 14" saws are (IMO) more for small work, scroll sawing, and so forth, and the higher (closer to you) table makes sense for that. An 18" is a whole other tool.

Both tools are a hassle when it comes to DC. Sawstop is pretty decent, and the Laguna could be better. That said, I did read an article by David Charlesworth about his band saw setup... he runs PVC pipe right up under the table insert, for DC right at the source. As long as you're not tilting the table very often, it looks like a great setup... so that's something I'll be doing soon.

If I had to do it again, I'd probably lose the table saw and stick with the band saw. I really enjoy having both, though. If space is an issue, that's a deciding factor for me... band saw has a much smaller footprint.

 

[BIP]

I say go with the Laguna Bandsaw.  I have a Laguna HD16 Bandsaw and never regret the purchase.  A bandsaw of that caliber opens up alot avenues, especially when it comes to re-sawing large boards.  I have a tablesaw too mind you (Laguna TSS w/sliding table), but it was more of a step up then a broadening experience when compared to the band saw.

 

[fshanno]

That bench system is the bomb isn't it?

I like your original plan.  Why not continue on the way you started?  And I would just keep the Jet band saw unless you are absolutely positive you need big resaw capability.  The parallel guides are great.  You can make a ripping platform and turn that TS75 into the "ripping saw" you talk about.  Check out my little ripping platform on a similar thread.  You could make short work of those 2x12s with either a ripping platform or the parallel guide.

And then down the road, if your plan isn't working out or if you just have SawStop on the brain, go ahead and get a table saw.  But at least wait until the SawStop PCS comes out in August. 

I just bought that new Ridgid granite top hybrid.  I have a table saw for the miter slots more than for ripping or crosscutting.  Also because I enjoy cutting on a table saw.  So I'm going to have one no matter what and since my old Craftsman contractor saw is getting long in the tooth I went for the cheapest replacement I can find with a true quick release riving knife and a 4" dust port and the Ridgid fits the bill nicely for $450 on sale.  It's for miscellaneous stuff (someone mentioned ripping molding)  and for quick one off rips.  If I'm going to rip a bunch of rails and styles at 1/4" width increments I can do that better with the TS55 on the ripping platform.  Then gang plane them.

 

[Ashlee52]

Your ripping platform is brilliant... as I said earlier in the other thread, it may replace the table saw... or at least let me use the Bosch for what little TS needs I still have.

And yes the Finn style bench system is such a clean easy solution, and fully "Festool" friendly. I've set up the new shop in a very unconventional way... a rubber floor... and all benches and counters made out of the Finn tables plus the MFT. With 9 tables I can flex the layout for every sort of task. The room is 16x36 so I can handle wood long enough for boat building. As much as possible I'd be trying to take the tools to the wood rather than sliding big boards across saws. I can make a huge center bench or arrange most everything along the walls.

I built 4 of the 48"x16" Finn tables at 33.5 inches height and 5 larger ones at 37.5 inches (the height of the other tables with the beams mounted. The larger tables will serve as the counters and as tool stands but can still be moved whenever needed. Even at 48" x22" they are rock solid.

 

[cgmojoco]

http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt37

That should replace a table saw and allow you to do a whole lot more!

Of course, you probably don't need to go that big

 

[hanshamm]

Powermatic PM1800 best I've used to date

 

[bruegf]

I have the sawstop and a use a 4" connection to my dust collector for the below the blade dust port and a 1.5" hose connected to the dust collector for the blade guard dust port above the blade.  I believe that with this arrangement, dust collection is even better than with my TS55.  I recently ripped a number of 2x4s into 3/4x3/4 stickers for stacking freshly milled wood for air drying and ended up with less than a quart of sawdust on the sawtable and shop floor.  All the rest went into the thien baffle I have in front of my dust collector, with the exception of about a cup that made it past the thien baffle into the dust collector.

Most of the dust that ended up on the saw table and shop floor came from the last rips that just skimmed the side of the last piece instead of having the blade completely embedded in the wood.

IMO, sawstop dust collection is up to festool standards.

Fred

 

[RONWEN]

In my opinion a bandsaw is the corner stone of the workshop.  Bandsaws are inherently safe and with the possible exception of breaking down sheet goods bandsaws can do everything that a table saw can do but the reverse isn't true.  Breaking down sheet goods is best handled by Festool TS rail saws.  As far as a choice of table saws the superior safety and excellent quality of SawStop can't be ignored.  One would have to have a specific special requirement (i.e. slider, etc.) to make a choice other than a SawStop.

Grooves and dados on a bandsaw you say???  That what those great Festool routers excel at.  [thumbs up]

 

[hanshamm]

+1 on what Ron said. 

 

[ScotF]

+1 too on Ron's comments.

Scot