Brilliant sandpaper - rapidly burning through sheets w. Rotex

[Greg_R]

I've been using a new Rotex 150 with some 220 and 320 grit Brilliant sandpaper.  I have tried the vacuum on a variety of settings to keep the sander from being sucked down onto the surface.  My major issue is that I'm burning through sandpaper at a very fast rate.  A single pass on a 12"x96" sheet of plywood removes a significant amount of grit from the paper.  In other words, a new sheet has a certain roughness and after 1 pass the sandpaper feels significantly smoother (and it doesn't cut as aggressively).  I am using the Rotex on the lowest speed setting and the vacuum at about 50% power.  Does the brilliant paper "break in" and settle into it's final grit or is something wrong with my equipment or methods?  There is dust loaded on the paper and on the work surface when I'm done a single pass.  My garage is about 40-50 degrees but I can't imagine that having an effect on sandpaper.

Any suggestions about what's happening with my sandpaper (or proper speed and vacuum settings) would be appreciated.  Thanks!

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Greg.  I guess my question is 'what are you trying to do?'  220 and 320 paper would not be expected to cut aggressively.  They are for smoothing out a finish.

For what its worth, I usually use the Rotex in the beginning for stock removal at 80 or 100 grit, then switch to the 150/3 to take out the scratches left by the course grit and to smooth over my finish.  I sometimes go back to the Rotex in buffer mode to polish a formal finish.

 

[Greg_R]

Jesse, I agree and I am not expecting an aggressive cut with the 220 paper.  What I am expecting is a _consistent_ cut from that paper.  With a fresh sheet I get the most aggressive cut and after a very short time I get a significantly less aggressive cut.  The feel of the sandpaper is also more smooth to the touch.  In other words, it feels like I've ground off the majority of the sanding grit off the paper.  Is this typical?

I currently only own the Rotex so swapping to different sanders is not an option for me.

 

[Ned]

Greg--

Which mode is the ROTEX in -- ROTary or EXcentric?

Kind of a dumb question, but I'd expect you to go through 220 Brilliant real fast in the more aggressive mode.

Ned

 

[TahoeTwoBears]

Greg,

If you're loading the paper, you might try a lighter touch to see if that helps.............

Mike

 

[Dan Uhlir]

try some 80 grit rubin or 36 saphir see what happens, seems way to fine a grit i rarely use 320 or much beyond 120. brilliant is for painted rubin is for bare wood.dan

 

[Greg_R]

I am sanding walnut veneer plywood and am trying to knock down any lifted grain and markings before I start finishing (and will sand again using 320 or 400 grit as I proceed through the finishing stages).  Coarser grits will immediately go right through the veneer and expose the core layers.  Yes, I'm operating in eccentric mode (not rotex mode).

I may be using a heavier touch because the sander is jumping around on me.  This has to do with the vacuum setting (I think).  What vacuum setting is everyone using with the rotex sander?

Everything I've heard has been to use Rubin for the lower grits and Brilliant for the higher grits.  Did I hear incorrectly?

 

[EdL]

I set the vac control at about 1/2 or slightly less for sanding with the rotex. The sander speed control is set between 4 & 5. Use NO pressure on the sander, just guide it.

HTH

Ed

 

[CharlesWilson]

I use Rubin up to 180 grit and then switch to Brilliant at 220. However, since I acquired my ES-125 sander, I haven't used the ROTEX sander above 120 grit (Rubin) unless I am buffing with Platin. At 120 grit on the ROTEX I primarily use the eccentric mode.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

If you are trying to remove wood, you might be better off with Rubin and no pressure on the sander at all.  Put it in rotary mode and keep it moving.  Brilliant isn't made for wood removal.  If the veneer is extremely thin, I would be tempted to hand sand.

 

[Greg_R]

Jesse, I agree that scuff sanding by hand would be ideal in most situations.  However, I'm building 14'+ of floor to ceiling bookshelves and have a LOT of sanding to do.  The RS2 would probably be the ideal sander for this situation but the budget does not allow for this purchase right now.  I'm just trying to remove little nubs & marks to get the plywood surface super-flat before applying my finish.

I'll try a higher speed with the rotex and see if it "floats" more across the wood.  I'm definitely exerting downward pressure with my current sanding method (to keep the tool under control).

Rubin is completely out of the question since 180 is the finest grit that I can find in that paper.  It would burn through the veneer very quickly.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.  I'll do some more experimenting with speed / pressure / vacuum settings and see if I can make the fine-grit Brilliant paper work on the rotex.

 

[Bob Childress]

I find that the 220 and 320 (and 400) loads up pretty quickly, but I don't lose much cutting ability, I just stop and blow off the paper surface with my compressor every now and then. My experience so far has been the opposite--I can't seem to wear out the higher grits (perhaps because I only take a pass or two before moving on?).

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I find on bare wood that much over 220 is wasted really and that any extra effort in smooting needs to go into the between surface coatings instead of the wood. Given that I would suggest that Festools range is spot on in what they provide.

My 2 bob's worth anyhow

 

[The Dude]

The brilliant2 is the "combo-blade" of the Festool abrasives; i am suprised to hear that it is wearing.  Perhaps the downward pressure has a little somethin' somethin' to do with it.  You may try the Foam Interface Pad to take a little "meat" away from the sander.

My 0.02 cents,

timmy

 

[Les]

Jesse, I agree that scuff sanding by hand would be ideal in most situations.  However, I'm building 14'+ of floor to ceiling bookshelves and have a LOT of sanding to do.  The RS2 would probably be the ideal sander for this situation but the budget does not allow for this purchase right now.  I'm just trying to remove little nubs & marks to get the plywood surface super-flat before applying my finish.

Greg,

I'm currently building a similar job out of maple. I used the ETS 150/3 sander, Rubin 150 & 180 with no burn through. My standards are 15" x 92" and I was able to sand several, 2-3, before changing paper. If you're trying to get the "surface super-flat", what will the finer grit get you? If you sand to a too fine of grit, you will start burnishing the ply. Maybe that's what you need.

I'll try a higher speed with the rotex and see if it "floats" more across the wood.  I'm definitely exerting downward pressure with my current sanding method (to keep the tool under control).

Are you using the 90* handle to help steady the RO sander? I need it to help control the sander. I normally set the vac to high and haven't had any problem with the ETS 150 or the RO 150 sticking. Speed control is set on 6.

Rubin is completely out of the question since 180 is the finest grit that I can find in that paper.  It would burn through the veneer very quickly.

I don't agree. Not with a normal pressure. Just guide the sander with little down force needed. Try the pencil trick. Mark the surface with a pencil, sand until the lines are gone. Using the lines will let you judge better if it's taking longer to remove the lines at the end of the standard than at the beginning within reason.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.  I'll do some more experimenting with speed / pressure / vacuum settings and see if I can make the fine-grit Brilliant paper work on the rotex.[/color]

Good luck. Let us know. You shouldn't be having a big problem.

 

[bill-e]

Greg,

My experience is that the Brilliant wears pretty quick and if you have sharp corners like a drawer or box, tears up pretty easily also.

From reading your post I know you cant do this with this project but for future sanding, I have found that if you progress through the grits, the Brilliant lasts longer.  What I mean is rather than starting with 220 Brilliant, start with 180 Rubin and then go through the higher Brilliant grits.

I do agree that I'd like to see the sturdier Rubin sold up to 240 grit.

 

[Woodenfish]

Greg, Why are you feeling the need to power sand 8 square feet of veneer plywood with a $800+ sander/vacuum combo when a $2 hand sanding sponge would work just fine for your stated objective? ???

It sounds like your using too fine of an abrasive with a much too aggresive sander on too soft of material. What are you planning on top-coating the project with?

 

[Greg_R]

Why are you feeling the need to power sand 8 square feet of veneer plywood with a $800+ sander/vacuum combo when a $2 hand sanding sponge would work just fine for your stated objective?

8 square feet?  Try 8' * 4' * 14 sheets * 2 sides = 896 sq feet of sanding!  I have no desire to hand sand this large of a project.  I agree that the Rotex is not the perfect sander for this application but it is the only sander I currently own (besides a drum sander).  The plywood definitely needs sanding to knock off some raised grain and dirt / scratches that were incurred during it's storage at the lumber yard.

Update: The problem turned out to be me putting downward pressure on the sander.  When pushing down, the sander would dance around, causing me to push down even harder to keep it under control.  I've now been sanding with 220 on speed setting #3 for initial plywood prep and #320 for knocking down the finish after each coat.  I did all the boards on 1 sheet this time and the paper still has plenty of grit on it.  I also swapped out the coarser Brilliant paper (80-180) for Rubin.  I think the rule of thumb is to use only the weight of the machine (with occasional light pressing on problem areas).  If you need to constantly use the 90&deg handle then you better be in Rotex mode and be using a coarse grit.  Thanks to everyone for their suggestions!

Les, I can now see your point r.e. 180 grit Rubin.  I think it would work fine for my current application if I needed to take more wood off in 1 pass.