BS 75/105 Sanding Frame

[Roachmill]

Hi folks,

I took delivery of a BS 75 yesterday which included the sanding frame. Getting the sander in and out of the frame is straight forward enough but that leaves you with the "guiding struts" as the manual calls them still attached both front and back. The front strut partially obscures the the rounded end of the sanding belt and I can see me wanting to use that area (e.g. with the sander fixed on its side for shaping concave curves) or not want the strut protruding from the front when using the thing out of the frame for fear of denting the workpiece accidentally. However, the manual (yes, I RTFM!) has an explicit warning about how said struts are pre-aligned at the factory and not to remove them [unsure]

My question is: are there any particular tip or tricks to realigning the struts (the front one in particular) if removed?

I can certainly see how a messed up alignment could seriously screw up the main function of using the sanding frame so I've left them be for now.

 

[Holmz]

No help to offer, but I am keenly interested in this sander.

 

[peter halle]

Although we don't have those Festool sanders over here I did go to see if I could find a video showing what you were asking about without any success.

Peter

 

[aloysius]

Hi folks,

I took delivery of a BS 75 yesterday which included the sanding frame. Getting the sander in and out of the frame is straight forward enough but that leaves you with the "guiding struts" as the manual calls them still attached both front and back. The front strut partially obscures the the rounded end of the sanding belt and I can see me wanting to use that area (e.g. with the sander fixed on its side for shaping concave curves) or not want the strut protruding from the front when using the thing out of the frame for fear of denting the workpiece accidentally. However, the manual (yes, I RTFM!) has an explicit warning about how said struts are pre-aligned at the factory and not to remove them [unsure]

My question is: are there any particular tip or tricks to realigning the struts (the front one in particular) if removed?

I can certainly see how a messed up alignment could seriously screw up the main function of using the sanding frame so I've left them be for now.

Think of your "schleifrahmen" as a type of parallelogram attached to the ends of the base, that may be adjusted up & down in relation, but preset & remaining in parallel, to the sander's platen.

Yes, the front strutting may be removed.  Yes, it can be replaced, & yes it will require readjustment once reattached.  This would've been preset originally in the factory by the HolzHer engineers, probably using some sort of jig arrangement to ensure parallel alignment.  Are you sure you want, or even need to remove it?  The Festo version, in common with the HolzHer originals & AEG, Atlas Copco & Milwaukee clones still retain that rather intrusive, blobby non-removable front "handle" that will prevent getting closer to 90 degree (vertical) corners in line with the belt's travel.  You can still access the belt's 90 degree edge on the right side of the machine.

No belt sander can sand right into "concave" corners, due of course to the roller assemblies.  With the exception of proper orbital delta sanders, no other type of sander can either.  You would in fact gain little other than quite a bit of bother in realignment by removing the front strutting guides.  Only the Metabo & Wurth versions of the HolzHer original model (now both unfortunately discontinued) have the extremely useful feature of a removeable front handle that allows sanding closer to (but thanks to the front roller not actually into) corners.

Having said that, over time, with vibration, perimeter brush wear and extended use, the schleifrahmen will eventually work its way out of parallel, and will actually require eventual parallel realignment.  Nevertheless, this adjustment will only be minuscule, and really only required for the very finest of jobs like sanding the finishes on veneers with superfine grit belts.  A job fraught with obvious dangers and definitely better accomplished with an alternative tool.

If you do wish to remove & eventually replace the guides, then realignment would be best accomplished on an appropriately sized, certified flat piece of float glass, granite or cast iron surface plate or planer/thicknesser in or outfeed table with a set of feeler gauges.  You would need to realign to the sanders' platen, not the rollers, and realignment will be required in both longitudinal & lateral planes.  I'm not actually sure here, but for the "perfect" parallel realignment one may need to remove the perimeter brushes from the frame.

 

[Roachmill]

[member=1674]Peter Halle[/member]: there are very few videos I could find either for what is quite a unique sander setup. I guess it's not a Kapex [wink]

[member=9481]aloysius[/member]: thanks for the in depth reply. I didn't know exactly where the '75 came from so it's nice to learn a bit of the history. I shall do some further digging to find out more.

I'm not wanting to get into 90 degree corners at all. Rather, the aim was to expose a bit more of the front roller and use it like a bobbin sander with the sander mounted on its side. But that's really just wanting to be lazy! I fear you may be right about just keeping it as it is and not taking the front strut off at all. Given the amount of red threadlock gubbins there is on the various bolts that comprise the sanding frame mountings... I think Festool would tend to agree too!

 

[Michael Kellough]

Don't remove the struts.
They are factory adjusted.
Thread locking compound is applied to keep the adjustment.

If you want to use the front roller of a belt sander as a convex platen buy a cheap sander for that.

 

[Roachmill]

Part of the reason for getting the set version was the financial saving against buying the frame separately at a later date. How do folk that do exactly that cope with aligning the struts correctly I wonder. I can see no sign of a Festool manual for the frame itself and the BS (no pun intended) manual has nada. I'm glad I ponied up and bought the set version now.

I've ordered up some drill press bobbins in assorted sizes as I don't have enough cash / space / use for a dedicated unit.

 

[Robert Hewetson]

That is one awesome sander, I highly recommend it to anyone considering one.  I have used it with the coarser belts to very easily and effectively flatten a solid (and hard!) maple kitchen worktop, and then proceeded to finish sand the worktop up to 150 grit - all with this belt sander.  OK, I did then go one grit higher with my RS300, but it was not really neccesary.    Really  is an amazing tool.  I would not mess about with the frame guides though.

 

[Kev]

Chicken that I am .. the BS105 stays in the frame and I have a 75 (older AEG version, almost identical to the BS75 .. which could even have been sourced from Metabo) that I use upside down on it's "feet".

For what a cheaper 75 is worth to use as a linisher, I'd be tempted not to fiddle with the BS75/105 frame setups if your time is worth anything to you.

 

[Coen]

Festool wants you to buy their 570244 for that . It fits nice in the CMS-GE or CMS-VL
It's a rarely sold product I guess, I have not seen many sold anyway.

On the frame thing; ask Festool for the manual they supply with the 490827, as it seems to be unavailable online.

 

[Roachmill]

Thought I'd post my thoughts on the sander having had a chance to use the thing in anger.

The first thing that struck me was just how big the MAXI systainer was. It's like a small to medium sized suitcase. Once inside you can see why, as the sander sits in the sanding frame and there's space to store a few belts and the bench mounts too. The systainer adds a good bit of weight to the whole thing as the sander itself is reasonably light for its size. Looking at the frame and how it attaches and detaches from the sander gave a good impression as it all looks, works and feels like it'll last.

My first port of call wa trying out the sanding frame to see how it would cope with flattening panels. As someone who isn't quite a novice at making up panels I still get grain direction problems with sections in a panel going in opposite directions. Planeing panels like that isn't a whole world of fun and I was hoping being able to sand them would work. A drum sander is way out of my price range and I'd have to sell a child to free up their bedroom space to home one. This is a possibility once they hit teenage years... I jest (slightly).

Anyway, I took some ash I had laying around that *looked* flat and straight and glued it up in to two small panels about 500x350x16mm. Once dried I planed of the very worst high spots (there was a very slight cupping of one board and minor variations in thickness of boards) but i didn't fuss about getting it completely flat. That was when the sanding frame stepped in... With a 40g belt it made light work of removing stock (shock horror). The frame really was a joy to behold as it lets the belt sander do what it does best but without letting it dip or dig itself into the wood. About the hardest thing was sanding edges as you want to hit the edges but also keep as much of the frame referencing off of the panel. It wasn't hard at all so you can see it really was very simple to hit the ground running with it. For a first go with it I was very impressed! the Rotext came out and worked up through the grits to leave me with a couple of flat smooth panels that went on to become chopping boards.

The Christmas batching out stuff list consists of some 90x90 oak tealight holders of various heights and some bedside table lamps with oak bases. These amounted to some 60 faces needing sanded so the sander came out of the base and was mounted on my bench using the supplied feet. Mounting it was very quick and easy and it all went smooth and way quicker than having to rotate each block in a vise to sand each face. Another pleasing job done in short order.

I also bought the LA-BS-75/105 angled fence accessory (https://www.festool.co.uk/Products/Accessories/Pages/Detail.aspx?pid=490821&name=Accessories-LA-BS-75-105). This lets you repeatedly sand edges at any angle between 45 and 90 degrees. I've not used it yet but the build quality wasn't quite up to usual Festool standards. The pins the fence rotate on weren't both inserted correctly to adjusting the fence angle was pretty stiff. I'll fettle it as it looks easily fixable. It attaches pretty well to the sander so it should come in hand for some of the smaller bits I work with from time to time.

Overall, I'm very pleased I finally stopped thinking, "should I or shouldn't I" and went for it. It cost way more I'd ever think of spending on what is quite a crude type of tool... but was IMO definitely worth it in the end.

And the struts for the sanding frame are staying put. I can think of a few ways I'd attempt putting them back on but I'd really rather not!

 

[Michael Kellough]

  "quite a crude type of tool..."

Not with the frame installed. It becomes a completely different tool.

 

[Roachmill]

^I agree completely. I was meaning belt sanders in general aren't used for anything delicate or precise. The frame does change that for sure.

 

[Haugummobelsnekkeri]

I actually accidentally took the alignment set screw totally out of fabric position, mistakenly took them for having something to to with the installment. No i didnt read the manual first, and banged my head when i realized what ive done.

I went the route of calibrating it back as per the manual. Actually you eyeball a small gap betaen the sanding Belt and the frame using a flat stick. After some fiddling i was happy and did the alignment test as per the manual. It was pretty dead on. Now i’m sure it’s not 100% perfect, but im having no visual problems, even in veneer.

So the alignment of the frame isnt all that scary as you might think....