I have certainly fiddled with a track saw/connecters/parallel guides/ etc... for way too much time BUT it is part of redefining the way you work. Tom has some great jigs and work flows for making face-frame stock with a track saw on here. I have yet to imitate but I should make a jig in his style for adjustable stock widths.
Building a Lean, Mean Portable Finish Carpentry/Woodwork Shop
- Thread starter rjh
- Start date
Alright, a little math in accordance with the suggestions.
Recommended Corded Festool Tools
$1258.50 for TS 55 and MFT3
$992.5 ETS EC 125/3 and CT 26
$560 OF 1400 Router
=$2,811
$280 Bosch JS572
$350 Milwaukee Drill Driver Fuel (brushless) kit
===$3441===
Cordless Festool Setup with same or more functionality:
$1196 TSC 55 Basic and MFT3
$992.5 ETS EC 125/3 and CT 26
$560 OF 1400
=$2748.5
$578 Cordless Carvex and Accessory Kit
$625 T 18+3
===$3951.5===
Difference: 3952-3441=511
So the first option has the advantage of saving $511 and having a brushless impact driver. (Also, some will see cords as being advantageous on the TS and jigsaw.)
With the second option the advantage is having cordless capacity on the TSC and Jigsaw and Drill, having Systainer storage for all of these, having the different chucks (right-angle, eccentric, etc.) and quick changing with the drill. For jigsaw work one would have better quality and flexibility with the Carvex.
To my mind, the math is clear and the advantages of the second option are worth the extra $511. However, I can understand why others prefer the first option. Some of it just comes down to personal preference and idiosyncrasy. I use a jig saw a LOT, and in ways that other people usually reach for other tools. On the other hand, I have very little use for an impact driver, especially with a T18 (This is why I went for it rather than a CXS - power). But I made it pretty clear that there was room to grow in this setup and I appreciate the sage advice of the experienced.
$4500 was just the initial budget for power tools. The rest will present itself as time and jobs go on. With the cordless option I still have $500+ left to buy a small dewalt table saw and a couple other accessories.
Thanks again though.
Recommended Corded Festool Tools
$1258.50 for TS 55 and MFT3
$992.5 ETS EC 125/3 and CT 26
$560 OF 1400 Router
=$2,811
$280 Bosch JS572
$350 Milwaukee Drill Driver Fuel (brushless) kit
===$3441===
Cordless Festool Setup with same or more functionality:
$1196 TSC 55 Basic and MFT3
$992.5 ETS EC 125/3 and CT 26
$560 OF 1400
=$2748.5
$578 Cordless Carvex and Accessory Kit
$625 T 18+3
===$3951.5===
Difference: 3952-3441=511
So the first option has the advantage of saving $511 and having a brushless impact driver. (Also, some will see cords as being advantageous on the TS and jigsaw.)
With the second option the advantage is having cordless capacity on the TSC and Jigsaw and Drill, having Systainer storage for all of these, having the different chucks (right-angle, eccentric, etc.) and quick changing with the drill. For jigsaw work one would have better quality and flexibility with the Carvex.
To my mind, the math is clear and the advantages of the second option are worth the extra $511. However, I can understand why others prefer the first option. Some of it just comes down to personal preference and idiosyncrasy. I use a jig saw a LOT, and in ways that other people usually reach for other tools. On the other hand, I have very little use for an impact driver, especially with a T18 (This is why I went for it rather than a CXS - power). But I made it pretty clear that there was room to grow in this setup and I appreciate the sage advice of the experienced.
$4500 was just the initial budget for power tools. The rest will present itself as time and jobs go on. With the cordless option I still have $500+ left to buy a small dewalt table saw and a couple other accessories.
Thanks again though.
Michael Kellough
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 7,096
With the title in mind, I'd get a CT Midi instead of the 26.
Is the TSC the basic tool only version? That's what I'd go for since you are already buying a power supply with the T 18. Buy extra batteries (now) if you think you need them. For some odd reason Festool 18v 5.2 Ah batteries cost half as much as M18 5 Ah batteries.
Finally either get the cordless Carvex or get a Bosch jigsaw.
Is the TSC the basic tool only version? That's what I'd go for since you are already buying a power supply with the T 18. Buy extra batteries (now) if you think you need them. For some odd reason Festool 18v 5.2 Ah batteries cost half as much as M18 5 Ah batteries.
Finally either get the cordless Carvex or get a Bosch jigsaw.
Thanks. Yes, the T 18's batteries are serving as the power for the TSC 55 and Carvex. That's why I bought a 2.6Ah battery for the T 18 to cut down on size and weight while using the 5.2ah batteries in the saws.Michael Kellough said:
Do you feel that the MIDI gives that much better portability? I kind of want the boom or tool stand eventually...hence the ct26
Michael Kellough
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 7,096
You can't use a boom arm with a midi but you can't take a boom out of the shop either, unless you have a big truck and a helper.
Holmz
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2014
- Messages
- 4,001
rjh said:
Your whole process is starting to show more easily followed thought and care now.
On the jig saw.
I used to consider them a tool of last resort, or for general caveman work.
After getting the p1cc I have found that they can be very capable in the right paws.
Now if you NEED a cordless jigsaw, then the Carvex is probably the right choice.
I could picture a cordless jigsaw and a corded TS55. As I cannot picture NEEDING a cordless track saw, but I can picture others needing them for valid reasons. And I do not prefer a cordless track saw, but understand that some do.
In my mind your whole set up hinges on you jigsaw.
If you go Bosch or Mafell then you need Bosch rails, and that puts you onto a Bosch or Mafell track saw.
I believe that the FT router fits on the Bosch version of their 32-mm rail. And I use my p1cc and the MT55 on an MFT along with a CT26. Or you go with a Bosch router. I dunno for sure, the kit is an OFA Kit32 or something like that.
This insight does not help the costing for you. But if your work favours a jigsaw, and the jigsaw needs to be used on a track, then it is seems worth investigation. If you are never on-track with the jigsaw, or need cordless then disregard.
I have a Ryobi brad nailer and have put several thousand 2 inch brads through it putting trim in a lot of our house. I recommend it. A compressor and pneumatics are cheaper but the cordless nailer is much handier. The batteries (I use the little lithium ion) last a long time. No regrets. I see that they make 16 and 15 gauge models now. They are bigger - and the 18 gauge is not small - but I bet they work well too.
I have a pretty complete set of Ryobi cordless. I have two drills, the impact driver, the reciprocating saw, jig saw, circular saw, and oscillating saw. And a light. And a weed whacker and a bush trimmer. I like them all. But my Bosch jig saw is a lot more capable than my Ryobi and my DeWalt corded reciprocating saw will do work the Ryobi just won't do. Some of it is the batteries. The saws go through them quickly. But there are bigger batteries. But part of it is the tools are not as good as the best corded tools. The blade on the jig saw wanders more than the Bosch. The stroke of the reciprocating saw is shorter than the DeWalt. I think the cordless are worth having and I grab them first a lot but I would get the corded first. You're going to need them sometimes.
If you can live without the sustainers my DeWalt track saw is pretty darn nice. My Rigid shop vac with Dust Deputy, auto-on switch, and quasi heap filter works great for a lot less than a Festool dust extractor. But it is also not nearly as impressive looking. Festool might make sense if your clients will witness your setup. But I'd still go Bosch for the jigsaw, cordless should be OK if that's the way you want to go. And Ryboi drills and nailers will work well for you.
I have a pretty complete set of Ryobi cordless. I have two drills, the impact driver, the reciprocating saw, jig saw, circular saw, and oscillating saw. And a light. And a weed whacker and a bush trimmer. I like them all. But my Bosch jig saw is a lot more capable than my Ryobi and my DeWalt corded reciprocating saw will do work the Ryobi just won't do. Some of it is the batteries. The saws go through them quickly. But there are bigger batteries. But part of it is the tools are not as good as the best corded tools. The blade on the jig saw wanders more than the Bosch. The stroke of the reciprocating saw is shorter than the DeWalt. I think the cordless are worth having and I grab them first a lot but I would get the corded first. You're going to need them sometimes.
If you can live without the sustainers my DeWalt track saw is pretty darn nice. My Rigid shop vac with Dust Deputy, auto-on switch, and quasi heap filter works great for a lot less than a Festool dust extractor. But it is also not nearly as impressive looking. Festool might make sense if your clients will witness your setup. But I'd still go Bosch for the jigsaw, cordless should be OK if that's the way you want to go. And Ryboi drills and nailers will work well for you.
My musings:
How are you going to turn on your vacuum if you go cordless on the track and jigsaws ? I'll bet you'll go lazy and eventually not turn them on at all - negating much of the Festool benefit in the first place. The carvex doesn't have dust collection with the angle base either so consider that too.
I seriously question whether a carpenter can make $$$ doing face frames on site with hand tools in the first place. It's simply not efficient ,and I don't care how many kreg jigs, or dominos, or pin nailers you have in your collection. Site built framed cabinetry only makes financial sense for the customer if the craftsman doing the work is working for peanuts, and we all know peanuts don't buy no stinkin Festools.
A midi or mini is infinitely more portable than a ct26. Both in terms of size and weight - especially after the bags fill with dust ! If you NEED a vac in the shop, the 26 or 36 is the ticket for sure. But if you're doing site work and are changing sites every other day or even a different one a week - lugging the 26 gets old fast. If you NEED a site vac , the the midi or mini is almost always a better choice. If your worried about $$$ and capacity with the mini being too small - consider adding a dust deputy and you'll get portability and capacity for those instances when you really need it without the weight penality when you don't. That combo adds way more versatility than a 26 even if the form factor isn't as sleek.
You mentioned a Kapex - I'd drop that notion if your wallet is sensitive as the risk seems too great given all that saw's problems mentioned here in the 110v version.
I also fail to see the allure of the cordless carvex. I find it waaaay to heavy and a bit unbalanced with the battery. My personal bias for sure, but with no triggered dust collection I just dont see an operation where a full sized cordless jigsaw is an advantage. For a few tasks where it might be - I think something more compact and lighter like Bosch's js120 would be preferable. At $150 the economics would seem more favorable too.
A Bosch js572 doesn't seem like much of a savings after you figure in the cost of a systainer to put it in to make it portable with the rest of your Festool kit. Might as well get the Carvex. The is 572 does allow you to make beveled cuts without spending an additional $200 like you must on the Carvex.
Echoing what has been mentioned already - consider your immediate NEEDS when trying to allocate capital expenditures on tools for your business. If a tool is idle , it's not making you any money and the capital you spent on it has been wasted. Resist the urge to acquire pretty blue and green (or any color for that matter ) tools that
just look good on your shelf or in the back of your truck.
Now if your business is rolling in cash, balance sheets can have a category for vanity and emotional purchases but they still impact return on investment.
How are you going to turn on your vacuum if you go cordless on the track and jigsaws ? I'll bet you'll go lazy and eventually not turn them on at all - negating much of the Festool benefit in the first place. The carvex doesn't have dust collection with the angle base either so consider that too.
I seriously question whether a carpenter can make $$$ doing face frames on site with hand tools in the first place. It's simply not efficient ,and I don't care how many kreg jigs, or dominos, or pin nailers you have in your collection. Site built framed cabinetry only makes financial sense for the customer if the craftsman doing the work is working for peanuts, and we all know peanuts don't buy no stinkin Festools.
A midi or mini is infinitely more portable than a ct26. Both in terms of size and weight - especially after the bags fill with dust ! If you NEED a vac in the shop, the 26 or 36 is the ticket for sure. But if you're doing site work and are changing sites every other day or even a different one a week - lugging the 26 gets old fast. If you NEED a site vac , the the midi or mini is almost always a better choice. If your worried about $$$ and capacity with the mini being too small - consider adding a dust deputy and you'll get portability and capacity for those instances when you really need it without the weight penality when you don't. That combo adds way more versatility than a 26 even if the form factor isn't as sleek.
You mentioned a Kapex - I'd drop that notion if your wallet is sensitive as the risk seems too great given all that saw's problems mentioned here in the 110v version.
I also fail to see the allure of the cordless carvex. I find it waaaay to heavy and a bit unbalanced with the battery. My personal bias for sure, but with no triggered dust collection I just dont see an operation where a full sized cordless jigsaw is an advantage. For a few tasks where it might be - I think something more compact and lighter like Bosch's js120 would be preferable. At $150 the economics would seem more favorable too.
A Bosch js572 doesn't seem like much of a savings after you figure in the cost of a systainer to put it in to make it portable with the rest of your Festool kit. Might as well get the Carvex. The is 572 does allow you to make beveled cuts without spending an additional $200 like you must on the Carvex.
Echoing what has been mentioned already - consider your immediate NEEDS when trying to allocate capital expenditures on tools for your business. If a tool is idle , it's not making you any money and the capital you spent on it has been wasted. Resist the urge to acquire pretty blue and green (or any color for that matter ) tools that
just look good on your shelf or in the back of your truck.
Now if your business is rolling in cash, balance sheets can have a category for vanity and emotional purchases but they still impact return on investment.
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