Building Kitchen

J

jmbfestool

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
6,646
Right!

I need some advice here please!

I am going to build my own kitchen for my house
[attachimg=#]

Now! I have been thinking of loads ways how to do this.

1. I can build the UNITS with a white/Cream veneer sheets and make all the doors and draws and paint them.

2. I can build all the units and doors and paint all of it. (which to me seems very time consuming and I think option 1 well for my kitchen any way will be fine)

Im mainly site but I do do workshop and I am trying to learn more and trying to head towards work shop aswell as site.

Do you have to do a kinda lacquer coat on top of the doors to stop dirt staining the doors and protect chipping?!?!?

I was thinking using solid wood frame and then just MDF panels.

I assume you would spray paint all the doors?!?!? I have got a proper spray gun with compressor but need some practice I think lol ill practice on my kitchen!

I dont know what I am trying to ask from you all but just some advice,tips,help how you would do it.

Thank you in Advance!
 
As far as paint,i would go with a lacquer based paint for cabinets.Here in Norfolk,VA USA  I have to go to a special supplier for that type of paint.
Usually a cabinet/plywood/laminate supply store.With that paint,you don;t need a top coat.I use ML Campbell finish product.Also some people like to use Target paint.I believe they offer water base finishes.
 
I would buy the carcases in you wont be able to make them for what you can buy them. Then just make the rest and get a good sprayer to paint it all for you, its not worth painting them yourself the guys who do this sort of painting have taken years to learn their trade you wont get anywhere near the finish they will.

Good luck
 
joiner1970 said:
I would buy the carcases in you wont be able to make them for what you can buy them. Then just make the rest and get a good sprayer to paint it all for you, its not worth painting them yourself the guys who do this sort of painting have taken years to learn their trade you wont get anywhere near the finish they will.

Good luck
Click to expand...

I agree with you I think with the Spray painting its quicker than me!

The thing is buying the carcases they are in set sizes. I have not looked at the clients house because its not built yet but mine I really need customized sizes to make the kitchen fit well. So I would be modifying the carcases to get them to fit.

JMB

Thank you so far for the advice!
 
 
jmbfestool said:
joiner1970 said:
I would buy the carcases in you wont be able to make them for what you can buy them. Then just make the rest and get a good sprayer to paint it all for you, its not worth painting them yourself the guys who do this sort of painting have taken years to learn their trade you wont get anywhere near the finish they will.

Good luck
Click to expand...

I agree with you I think with the Spray painting its quicker than me!

The thing is buying the carcases they are in set sizes. I have not looked at the clients house because its not built yet but mine I really need customized sizes to make the kitchen fit well. So I would be modifying the carcases to get them to fit.

JMB

Thank you so far for the advice!
Click to expand...

Thats what fillers are for
 
JMB

Do you have a reasonable size workshop ?

My choice would be buy the carcases, there are many manufacture's that make custom size cabinets in MFC, this is far harder than any paint finish and a lot cheaper.

The picture you have shown has layon doors so I would make the whole door in Medite moisture resistant MDF... 22mm frame and a 6 or 9mm panel, if you want the country look you could hand paint them in Dulux eggshell oil based.  The spray painting would be best done by a Pro with AC lacquer in any colour and various levels of gloss from 10% upwards, cost would be between ?12 to ?18 per sq Metre... sorry my pound key comes out with a ?

Any questions...fire away.

Paul
 
Paul, the software does not recognise the pound sign, that's why most Brits use GBP.  Its a bit like English shops not accepting Scottish notes  [poke]
Legal tender in the whole of the UK but south of the border refuses to accept it  [dead horse]

Woodguy.
 
yes thay drill all the holes for you. they put the shelves where you want them. if fact they do anything you want because you pay their bill
 
harry_ said:
jmbfestool said:
joiner1970 said:
I would buy the carcases in you wont be able to make them for what you can buy them. Then just make the rest and get a good sprayer to paint it all for you, its not worth painting them yourself the guys who do this sort of painting have taken years to learn their trade you wont get anywhere near the finish they will.

Good luck
Click to expand...

I agree with you I think with the Spray painting its quicker than me!

The thing is buying the carcases they are in set sizes. I have not looked at the clients house because its not built yet but mine I really need customized sizes to make the kitchen fit well. So I would be modifying the carcases to get them to fit.

JMB

Thank you so far for the advice!
Click to expand...

Thats what fillers are for
Click to expand...

Yeah I know!.

Thats the reason you build a kitchen to fit  to maximise space to eliminate fillers.

I never built my own kitchen only fitted kitchens and I think its a shame when you have a 100 mm filler such a waist of space plus I dont like them! Okay they dont look that bad but I rather not have any.

Here is a picture of the shape of my kitchen and you will see ill end up with fillers in a few areas.

Black Lines Out line of a section of building

Red Lines Base Units

Blue Lines Appliances

Green Lines Wall Units

I want to hide the Pillars. As you can see ill end up with fillers left right and centre because non of it really works out from all ways. Well not how I want it!!!

[attachimg=#]

NOTE: Drawing is way out of proportion! Just the rough shape!!!
 
I really cannot see the point in building your own kitchen units unless there is a compelling reason why you do not want to buy a factory-made kitchen.  A compelling reason maybe that you see nothing on the market that you like, or you want the intrinsic satisfaction of building one yourself.

You cannot build a kitchen carcass for what you can buy a factory-built one for, I doubt you would even buy the materials for the cost of an off-the-shelf carcass.  Furthermore, in the particle veneered board you cannot build one to the same standard / accuracy as a quality factory built ready assembled carcass. As good as the Festool TS55 is it will not cut as good as the machines used by commercial kitchen builders, and of course its accuracy is down to the individual operator's ability.  Where the TS55 comes in to its own is the ability to customize off-the-shelf carcasses for non-standard situations.

Filler panels are an integral part of any fitted kitchen - factory built or custom made.  Filler panels are needed because you need to space wall / floor units off walls to properly fit them, to allow for, amongst other thing, out of true walls / skirting / proper door opening clearance / wall tiles / etc.  The key to filler panels is a properly designed kitchen that makes best use of all available space - you should not need 100mm filler panels if the correct size units are fitted.

Quality factory made kitchens are not inferior products as is often made out.  They bring accurate , well made, and commercially viable products to the market place.  The key to any quality installation, is a good design well executed.  That is the kitchen fitters real skill.  And that's what Festool tools help to achieve.

Troll
 
We build kitchens like this all the time..

Use pre-finished ply for the boxes. Maple or beech for the frames and mouldings, MDF for the panels. The tricky part is the finishing! Talking about sealer coats and stuff. I would maybe consider handing the finishing part over to a finishing company. I don't know about your city, but we have at least 15 furniture refinishing companies in town that could do it.

Good luck!
 
Hey JMB,

Most of the time when building kitchens I order the pieces for the boxes.  Melamine 18mm, white or grey, cut to size, edgebanding 2mm PVC applied.  Most wood suppliers/lumber shops here have a beam saw and a edge bander.  The quality is unbelievable, I get the parts in a couple of days and for the price I can't start cutting it myself.  Melamine is a great material for building cabinets, its cheap, scratch resistant, easy to clean and doesn't need finishing.

Doors I order at a firm that does just that, they make doors for cabinets in MDF and you can choose to let it sprayed or they can vacuum mold a thin plastic around it.  They have a showroom where I can send my customers to choose the model and color.  They give price quotes, so called customer's price, which is about 25% more than what I eventually need to pay, they mark down the choice and I just need to pass along the right dimensions.

This is an example of these doors, if you click on "Country" and then "REALISATIES" you get a feel of what can be achieved.  They don't only have doors but also crownmolding, backsplashes and so forth.

Don't know if you can find something like that in England but it might be worth looking into.

Drawers I also order fit to size at my BLUM importer, they come pre-assembled in cardboard boxes, ready for fitment inside the cabinets in every dimension I want.

What I do, beside sending the bill to customer?

Design of the kitchen, calculate all the dimensions, order everything
I drill the holes for shelving, hinges and drawerslides in the boxes and doors.  Fit everything together, get it all installed including all the kitchen equipment, place the worksurface and clean up.

After 6 months I always call my customers and ask if I can stop by sometime to give the kitchen a quick checkup, no doorhinges that have come loose, drawerfronts that have sagged a bit, things like that.  It's also a chance for me to get user feedback and that is invaluable to building better kitchens, things like: "I would have put this or that somewhere else".  Customers appreciate this and often it also brings in new work, they ask for a dressing or bathroom, things they have been thinking about but didn't quiet get to.  You being there takes them that extra step, often they just ask a quote from you only and you get the job.  Customers that are happy with your work often don't want to risk taking someone else and be disappointed.  For me it's kind of "customer binding".
 
Troll said:
I really cannot see the point in building your own kitchen units unless there is a compelling reason why you do not want to buy a factory-made kitchen.  A compelling reason maybe that you see nothing on the market that you like, or you want the intrinsic satisfaction of building one yourself.

You cannot build a kitchen carcass for what you can buy a factory-built one for, I doubt you would even buy the materials for the cost of an off-the-shelf carcass.   Furthermore, in the particle veneered board you cannot build one to the same standard / accuracy as a quality factory built ready assembled carcass. As good as the Festool TS55 is it will not cut as good as the machines used by commercial kitchen builders, and of course its accuracy is down to the individual operator's ability.  Where the TS55 comes in to its own is the ability to customize off-the-shelf carcasses for non-standard situations.

Filler panels are an integral part of any fitted kitchen - factory built or custom made.  Filler panels are needed because you need to space wall / floor units off walls to properly fit them, to allow for, amongst other thing, out of true walls / skirting / proper door opening clearance / wall tiles / etc.  The key to filler panels is a properly designed kitchen that makes best use of all available space - you should not need 100mm filler panels if the correct size units are fitted.

Quality factory made kitchens are not inferior products as is often made out.  They bring accurate , well made, and commercially viable products to the market place.  The key to any quality installation, is a good design well executed.  That is the kitchen fitters real skill.  And that's what Festool tools help to achieve.

Troll
Click to expand...

There are many reason why I want to build my own but like you said above its mainly for my own satisfaction a feel of achievement seen I have never build one before! Ill show pictures when I have done it showing the reasons why I think only a self build could achieve!

Well im still going to build my own but Ill properly get the carcasses made for me to cut costs down.  The company I worked for sometimes made their own kitchens I was asked to work in the workshop but I said ill be bored wish I did now could of learnt a thing or two. I just fitted the stuff they made.

JMB

 
Mettes said:
Hey JMB,

Most of the time when building kitchens I order the pieces for the boxes.  Melamine 18mm, white or grey, cut to size, edgebanding 2mm PVC applied.  Most wood suppliers/lumber shops here have a beam saw and a edge bander.  The quality is unbelievable, I get the parts in a couple of days and for the price I can't start cutting it myself.  Melamine is a great material for building cabinets, its cheap, scratch resistant, easy to clean and doesn't need finishing.

Doors I order at a firm that does just that, they make doors for cabinets in MDF and you can choose to let it sprayed or they can vacuum mold a thin plastic around it.  They have a showroom where I can send my customers to choose the model and color.  They give price quotes, so called customer's price, which is about 25% more than what I eventually need to pay, they mark down the choice and I just need to pass along the right dimensions.

This is an example of these doors, if you click on "Country" and then "REALISATIES" you get a feel of what can be achieved.  They don't only have doors but also crownmolding, backsplashes and so forth.

Don't know if you can find something like that in England but it might be worth looking into.

Drawers I also order fit to size at my BLUM importer, they come pre-assembled in cardboard boxes, ready for fitment inside the cabinets in every dimension I want.

What I do, beside sending the bill to customer?

Design of the kitchen, calculate all the dimensions, order everything
I drill the holes for shelving, hinges and drawerslides in the boxes and doors.  Fit everything together, get it all installed including all the kitchen equipment, place the worksurface and clean up.

After 6 months I always call my customers and ask if I can stop by sometime to give the kitchen a quick checkup, no doorhinges that have come loose, drawerfronts that have sagged a bit, things like that.  It's also a chance for me to get user feedback and that is invaluable to building better kitchens, things like: "I would have put this or that somewhere else".  Customers appreciate this and often it also brings in new work, they ask for a dressing or bathroom, things they have been thinking about but didn't quiet get to.  You being there takes them that extra step, often they just ask a quote from you only and you get the job.  Customers that are happy with your work often don't want to risk taking someone else and be disappointed.  For me it's kind of "customer binding".
Click to expand...

Thank You for you advice

Im not sure if I have any company local who can do this for me but im sure their must be some were in the UK. 

I total agree with you about going back to the customers I dont do that but I might start doing it depending on job type. Often I have kitchens which needed fitted as quick as possible with minimal work possible so no coving very basic now that type of job I dont think it requires you to return for a check up lol Mainly renting housing. Not long did a kitchen for a family I gotta go back and do a little door under the stairs ill will ask them and looks at the kitchen fitted.

Cheers

JMB
 
"There are many reason why I want to build my own but its mainly my own satisfaction a feel of achievement seen I have never build one before! Ill show pictures when I have done it showing the reasons why I think only a self build could achieve!"

Isn't that what I said in my initial response?

"I really cannot see the point in building your own kitchen units unless there is a compelling reason why you do not want to buy a factory-made kitchen.  A compelling reason maybe that you see nothing on the market that you like, or you want the intrinsic satisfaction of building one yourself."

If you are doing a job for reasons of self-satisfaction then money and time doesn't come into the equation.  You talked about doing a self-build kitchen for a client on a commercial basis and that is a totally different situation.  There are people who are willing to spend enormous amounts of money on one-off kitchens but the reality is they are few and far between.  For most clients you simply couldn't compete price wise against a quality factory-built kitchen.  That's the difference.

Also as I pointed out your reasons for self-build because you didn't want filler panels doesn't stack-up because you need filler panels even in self-built kitchens.

No doubt you will let us know how you get on.

Troll
 
I was agreeing with you!!!

EDITED:
 I have edited my above post as reading it again I can see why it doesn't read like I was agreeing with you!!! sorry!

Now yes you need fillers but you dont need fillers between units which I will be having.

If you look at the picture you can see the U shape which is between two rows of units now I don't want any fillers in their.

Again if you look down the left side again its a U shape and it will create another filler point

Again I wont the Unit to end 20mm from the end of the wall again this will need a filler to get it to the required set back.

Thats why I mentioned the fillers

I know it wasnt a good point to back myself up with but its what I could think off at the time.

Now I might just buy a kitchen in but the client is my Girlfriend mate and she was being very specific what she wants and I said well im building mine and she said oh build mine aswell I was like well see how mine goes and she said well my house isnt built yet so dont worrie about it yet!

Thats why I mentioned in this topic just cus I did!

I cant believe how some people are sooooooo against building you own. The thing is if its good and people pay up whats the problem?!?!
All I wanna do is just learn about things thought it was a good story line to find out more about things really.

Thank you to every who has been helpfull and giving me good advice.

JMB
 
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