Built your own kitchen cabinets?

Emmanuel said:
My first finish experimentations for the cabinets were with wipe on poly.
It is very easy to apply but it takes forever to cure. No matter what I tried I always got dust nib on the finish  >:(

Emmanuel
Emmanuel,

Hi.  How did you resolve your finishing issues?  Hmm...  maybe I should ask, did you resolve your finishing issues?

Thanks,

Dan.
 
I am still having my finishing issues  :o
I am 99% convinced I will go with spraying a water based poly. I have a Fuji HPLV unit and do manage to get a very decent looking finish.
The lat problem I am having is that the finish I pick (GF High performance) which rated best overall in FWW did fail after runing some tests with some house cleaners leaving a dull appearence. Someone on another forum commented that I should leave the finish to cure for a while (he mentionned a month) before it can resists chemicals. In the meantime I will try other brands just in case...

Emmanuel
 
Hello Emmanuel,
I used an Olympic water based poly that seemed to work fine for our bath cabinets. I have some of the General product, but have yet to try it. I know this stuff does take some time to cure.
 
Emmanuel said:
I am still having my finishing issues  :o
I am 99% convinced I will go with spraying a water based poly. I have a Fuji HPLV unit and do manage to get a very decent looking finish.
The lat problem I am having is that the finish I pick (GF High performance) which rated best overall in FWW did fail after runing some tests with some house cleaners leaving a dull appearence. Someone on another forum commented that I should leave the finish to cure for a while (he mentionned a month) before it can resists chemicals. In the meantime I will try other brands just in case...

Emmanuel
Emmanuel,

Please post your results here.  I'm interested in what you find.

Thanks,

Dan.
 
Benjamin Moore makes a water based poly that is often used on floors.  It makes for a very good kitchen and bath topcoat [X 3 or 4].  It doesn't yellow and is quite durable.

There are certainly others as well.  I do like the BM for cabinets though.  It is very easy to apply. Looks like a million bucks!  All of my customers have loved it.  It isn't really cheap, but well worth it!  IMO, others have their way and it works too!
 
You can certainly do it yourself and for less money than you will get charged by Lowe's or HD.  For instance, if you want to go high-end with your drawer slides, check out:
AH Turf
They sell the Blumotion drawer slides that I thought I got a great deal on at $38/set for $26.  HD charges you a $50 surplus for that feature (on top of the Tandem undermount).

I agree that finishing is the hardest part of doing a quality job.  There's a lot of sanding involved in the drawers and interiors of cabinets.  You'll go through gallons of semi-gloss poly.  I wish I had a spray setup, but I don't (yet).  The Minwax poly I used raised the grain on the 3/4" plywood, so I spent a fair bit of time using my Rotex and 220 Brilliant to smooth them back out.  If I do it again I'll pre-finish the carcasses before assembly (mask your dados!).  I would love to get a DTS400 as those drawers have lots of corners that my RO150 won't reach.  Wipe-on stain and poly require careful attention to avoid runs.  Runs look very amateurish.  Runs in poly are also hard to remove without sanding through the stain layer.  Spraying would definitely help here.

I would consider a pocket-hole system to be a necessity.  Dominos are great but pocket holes are instantaneous and dissassemble-able.

You'll save a lot of time if you batch-build components.  No matter how you decide to build (box on box or integral cabinet sides w/dadoes), you can knock out 20 of something in not much more than the time required for a single.

Work out ALL of your dimensions and joinery first before starting to cut.  Most of my delays were caused be incomplete measurements or calculations.  I use CAD to plan my cabinets.  My wife thinks I'm over the top and that I take to long to start, but it sure is great when you don't ever have to do math.  Just cut and it all fits the first time.  Working out the drawings forces you to make decisions on dado and rabbet placement, length of support pieces, etc.  Plus, if you have all of the parts modeled, you can make a sheet of plywood and spin them until you've got the least waste.  You can do the same thing on paper, but I'm pretty quick with the computer and I always find myself adjusting things as I get better ideas.  This way I can just print a new copy.

Good luck and keep us informed!
 
Thanks clint.
Are you refering to Benwood? Stays Clear? Acrylic Polyurethane Low Lustre 423 ?
Also are you spraying it?

Emmanuel
 
Emmanuel said:  ...Benwood? Stays Clear? Acrylic Polyurethane Low Lustre 423?

Yep that's the stuff.  And, no, I don't spray it.  I use a Corona finishing brush [very fine ends] and sand VERY LIGHTLY, using a fine sanding sponge, between coats.  Sometimes I use the High Gloss for the first couple of coats and the Low Lustre for that final coat.  It can add a lot of depth.

I don't think it takes any longer than spraying if you include the clean up. But I'm a bit of a neanderthal about such things.  I've talked with guys who have sprayed it and they said it went on just fine - no problems at all.
 
Thanks for your replies.  Finishing is the part that worries me the most.  The reason I wondered about wipe on poly is that I started using it for furniture because I always had runs in the finish when I used a brush.  Of course I didn't find them until the finish was dry. I was looking at Wood magazine and they made cabinets out of sheets that have melamine on one side only.  I don't like the plastic interior look, but then I wouldn't have to finish the inside of the cabinets.  Plus my wife likes the bright white for the inside of the cabinets and likes that they would be easy to clean (how often do the inside of a cabinet need cleaned anyway?).  I still like the wood look over the plastic look.
If I remember right, I read somewhere that the cabinets were sized so you can get one base cabinet and one wall cabinet out of one sheet of plywood.  Does this seem right?  Also, what are you guys using for plywood?  Just birch ply from Lowe's or HD or hardwood plywood that matches the door material?  $35 for birch seems better than $100 for maple for something that will only be seen when you open a door.
Clint, how do you avoid brush marks and runs when applying the finish?
Thanks Brandon for the link for drawer slides.  What hinges are you using - European or other?

Tom.
 
Not a direct answer for your "one sheet of plywood" question but I highly recommend the Cutlist Plus software for laying out sheet good cuts.  You can download a trial version here.  I have the Silver version and have been very pleased with the product. 

In my experience, product support is excellent:  I moved the software from a desktop to a laptop and my 2 year old license key did not work.  I sent an email to the web page contact mailbox at 8am on a Saturday morning and got an updated key from the software author within 15 minutes.

Update 1:  woops, looks like product is only available for Windows XP or later (no Mac version) if that is an issue -- check the FAQ

Update 2:  software (at least the Silver version) also supports dimensioned lumber layout and provisions for hardware, finish and labor if you want to estimate the total cost of a project.
 
I would stay away from the lowes or HD ply. When I first started doing the cabinets I used one birch ply from HD to do a prototype and the thing is really unstable. I had to cut my dado oversized because as soon as I was making a cut the thickness of the material was changing unevenly. Also it was a real hassle to find a sheet that was not damage or bent at the store.

I did all my cases with birch ply which unfortunatly is currently  very expensive  :-[

Emmanuel
 
Tom,

I am writing the following from my own experience, with the hope of encouraging you to "go for it."

I was in much the same position 20 years ago that you are now, except that I had no Festools, no FOG helpers, a Shopsmith and some Craftsman power tools including a radial arm saw.  I redid all of the cabinets in my small kitchen using solid cherry for the face frames and doors and drawer fronts, motivated as you are by the need to modify one of the cabinets to fit a microwave/vent unit over the cooking range, and installation of a dishwasher.  The original cabinets weren't even cheap boxes.  Ryan Homes simply fastened a couple of rails (furring strips to the drywall to support the backs of the shelves and drawer guides, built a toe-kick support for the floor of the cabinet, and installed painted poplar face frames to which they fastned the doors (vinyl coated particle board).

I built new face frames using dowels, assembled them on the garage floor.  One piece for the upper hanging "cabinet" , a second face frame for the lower "cabinet."  To accomodate the utensils and cookware my wife had, I replace the original stack of 3 nearly equal depth drawers with 4 drawers with the top one being less deep than the original (to hold tableware type utensils) and the third down and bottom most drawer deep enough to hold her pots and large boiler for making soupls and chilli.  The drawers were fully dovetailed, front and back using a cheap Craftsman jig with plastic templates, and mounted on Blum slides.

I finished the insides and undersides of the drawers using lacquer sanding sealer and lacquer topcoat.  Everthing else to be exposed was finished using oil-based stains, top coated wih PU varnish.  Back then my brush technique wasn't very good, so I brushed the first coat or two, and applied the final finish coat using spray cans from Minwax.  To get the degree of gloss/flatness of finish that I wanted, I concurrently sprayed the same surface with both a gloss and a satin spray can.  Although I had conventional HP spray equipment, I did not want to use lacquer for the exterior exposed surfaces in the kitchen because it was too brittle and easily damaged if bumped.  I did not want to spray varnish in my garage due to its slow drying time and resulting tacky mist particles that would settle on everything in the garage.  My solution was to take the pieces to be sprayed outside and set them up on inverted plastic drywall pails with ply wood or boards for temporary supports. 

I also made a set of hanging cabinets from scratch (no plywood, all solid cherry), and hung them to serve as a partial divider between that kitchen and the adjoining dining room.  I built them with glass paneled doors on the front and back so their contents could be seen and reached from either room.  I had an art glass shop make a leaded glass fixture which I mounted within the recess in the bottom of that hanging cabinet.  Below that hanging cabinet I made a large butcher block style table top of maple strips with a rim of thicker cherry. which served dual functions as a working surface for food preparation (the left 1/3 portion replaced the original maple top of a single ~24" wide base cabinet) and as my family's (four people) daily meal table.

When it came time to sell that house ~7 years ago, the kitchen was one of the highlights that "grabbed" all prospective buyers.  And my wife still misses it, despite having a much larger professionally done kitchen, also of cherry.  She much preferred the warmth, depth, and clarity of the finish I achieved using the methods and materials described above over the modern HVLP sprayed catalyzed lacquer finish on our present cabinets which is extremely smooth, but lacks the clarity and visibility of the wood grain that my simple techniques provided.

One more point.  The cost of my kitchen project was about 1/5 of the lowest quote that my wife and I obtained, and that did not include the arched cabinet doors, or the new hanging cabinet dividing the two rooms.

We were living in the house when this project was in progress.  Because I did it in phases, the disruption wasn't too bad or long.

Did I make some mistakes?  Yes, but most miscut pieces could be salvaged, and even so, the project cost was still much lower than what others would have charged me.

With my much improved shop including several Festools, I think making the same kitchen cabinets or better ones having actual boxes for frames will be much simpler.  A pocket jig or Domino machine or biscuit jointer would make making face frames and boxes much easier, faster and accurate than the methods I used (dowels, rabbets and dados with glue only - no pin or brad nailer).  I plan to do that after making some furniture items, after making some cabinets, etc. for my current garage/shop.

Go for it!!  You can do it!!

Dave R.
 
Thanks Jim, I have XP so I might look into getting that program.  I'd seen it advertised,  but wasn't sure how much I would use it.
Thanks Dave for the encouragement and describing your kitchen.  I know this is something I know (or should know), but what is PU varnish?  Would you still brush the finish or would you use a HVLP system and/or a water-based finish?
You guys have talked me into going for it.  Now I have to plan the kitchen and figure all the dimensions, material needs, etc..  I should be able to make nicer cabinets for less than I can buy them and have them just how I want them (or just how the wife wants them).

Tom.
 
Make sure to build some Festools into the pricing. :D :D
Profit, cost savings, needed to make the finished product more polished, etc.

 
Yea Dave, I was looking into that.  Lets see, after watching the Festool video on the TS 75, I'm going to need that so I can stack all the plywood and cut out all the cabinets pieces at the same time!  I think I can sell the wife on that.  I'll need the RTS and LS sander too.  What else am I forgeting?

Tom.
 
I forget what you have....
CT22, MFT 1080, SYS-LR32, OF1400 or 1010. A coupla rails. I'm a TS55, but we've beaten that topic to death all over the place like religion.
 
tvgordon said:
Thanks Jim, I have XP so I might look into getting that program.  I'd seen it advertised,  but wasn't sure how much I would use it.
Thanks Dave for the encouragement and describing your kitchen.  I know this is something I know (or should know), but what is PU varnish?  Would you still brush the finish or would you use a HVLP system and/or a water-based finish?
You guys have talked me into going for it.  Now I have to plan the kitchen and figure all the dimensions, material needs, etc..  I should be able to make nicer cabinets for less than I can buy them and have them just how I want them (or just how the wife wants them).

Tom.

Sorry, Tom.  PU = polyurethane.

Dave R.
 
Back
Top