Buying Advice

[NYC Tiny Shop]

While some suggest that the track saw is safer than a table saw you need to consider what it is you intend to build with the saw.  If I were a carpenter using sheet goods I would certainly have a track saw. 

If you want to have the versatility to build furniture and cabinets then get a good table saw.  Using a track saw haphazardly can be as dangerous or more time consuming as compared to doing the same work on a table saw in my opinion.

I would suggest that you go to a unbiased source online with furniture and cabinet makers and ask the same questions.  There have been multiple times on here where the table saw/track saw comparisons have been discussed but, keep in mind that most people that have and use one or the other might not be doing the work you talk about.

Get more opinions from multiple sources and then make a decision.

Jack

+1

 

[Dionysus480]

Thanks guys, and I certainly respect all of the opinions offered.

A couple of details:  I have a budget of about $2000 to fit out my shop with larger tools.  I have a ton of cheap tools sitting around, some of which are certainly serviceable.  The OTHER thing is that the money isn't immediately available, I still have about 2-3 weeks (from investment, not tax return actually.)  My wife and I have agreed on the amount and that I can have the space.

This has been GREAT! Although I'm chomping at the bit to get set up and start projects.  I decided to clear the space and epoxy the floor.  This weekend I'm moving electric around.  I've spent time moving bits of paper around deciding on a layout, and I've used google sketch up to render ideas.  I'm a planner, and I've been really energized by getting to layout my workspace in this detail rather than letting it happen.

So - In my plans I still have a Dewalt 744X portable table saw.  It has 3/4 dado capability (that I could do instead on the router), and is easily mounted to the workbench. But it has all the limitations of a portable saw (not too mention a father in law that is telling my wife how unsafe portable saws are...)

I actually HAVE surfed the cabinet makers forums and it seems as though the recommendation is a low end cabinet saw with cast iron wings.  This is great, but I don't have room or money for one. My total space is 9 x 18.  I "can" expand to about 12 x 18 routinely with the use of casters, but more than that will require "setting up" the shop and "shutting down" the shop each time I work, and makes weeknight sessions less productive.  (Part of a dedicated workspace is not having to move a bunch of stuff out of the way just to work for 30 mins... At least for me.)  Now subtract space for storage cabinets along one wall, drill press, bandsaw, workbench, leave space along the garage door to move lumber in and out, and put some lumber storage overhead.  Figure actual work area in the center is probably 6 to 9 x 15 feet.

I also really like the idea of the track saw for sheet goods - so that is a decision I'm comfortable with.

Is adding a saw like a portable Dewalt or Bosch (as mentioned) going to add to my shop and the scope of my projects?  My goal is to have MY abilities be the limitation and set up to grow as a amateur woodworker.  Portable saws are generally frowned upon by REAL cabinetmakers, who point out alignment problems, width limitations, and problems with stability.

So - I asked here specifically to get a perspective on going the all Festool route.  Unfortuntately my budget is pretty limited to include very many Festools on this go-round.  But as a planner I am also thinking about future growth and expansion.

The CMS is fantastic - but a budget breaker.

Currently, Festool TS + Track is about $700, table saw is about $500, router, bit sets, and table (with some other accessories) about $1000. I'd love to add a dust extractor, but I was looking at space and was considering swapping the table saw for the MFT/3.

Keep in mind I also have a bandsaw, and while it is a different instrument, resawing and whatnot will be done with it.  I also have an old craftsman chop saw.  I use it extensively and it is pretty darn good at staying square.  I'll put some supports on it for now and dream of the Kapex.

 

[jacko9]

Thanks guys, and I certainly respect all of the opinions offered.

A couple of details:  I have a budget of about $2000 to fit out my shop with larger tools.  I have a ton of cheap tools sitting around, some of which are certainly serviceable.  The OTHER thing is that the money isn't immediately available, I still have about 2-3 weeks (from investment, not tax return actually.)  My wife and I have agreed on the amount and that I can have the space.

This has been GREAT! Although I'm chomping at the bit to get set up and start projects.  I decided to clear the space and epoxy the floor.  This weekend I'm moving electric around.  I've spent time moving bits of paper around deciding on a layout, and I've used google sketch up to render ideas.  I'm a planner, and I've been really energized by getting to layout my workspace in this detail rather than letting it happen.

So - In my plans I still have a Dewalt 744X portable table saw.  It has 3/4 dado capability (that I could do instead on the router), and is easily mounted to the workbench. But it has all the limitations of a portable saw (not too mention a father in law that is telling my wife how unsafe portable saws are...)

I actually HAVE surfed the cabinet makers forums and it seems as though the recommendation is a low end cabinet saw with cast iron wings.  This is great, but I don't have room or money for one. My total space is 9 x 18.  I "can" expand to about 12 x 18 routinely with the use of casters, but more than that will require "setting up" the shop and "shutting down" the shop each time I work, and makes weeknight sessions less productive.  (Part of a dedicated workspace is not having to move a bunch of stuff out of the way just to work for 30 mins... At least for me.)  Now subtract space for storage cabinets along one wall, drill press, bandsaw, workbench, leave space along the garage door to move lumber in and out, and put some lumber storage overhead.  Figure actual work area in the center is probably 6 to 9 x 15 feet.

I also really like the idea of the track saw for sheet goods - so that is a decision I'm comfortable with.

Is adding a saw like a portable Dewalt or Bosch (as mentioned) going to add to my shop and the scope of my projects?  My goal is to have MY abilities be the limitation and set up to grow as a amateur woodworker.  Portable saws are generally frowned upon by REAL cabinetmakers, who point out alignment problems, width limitations, and problems with stability.

So - I asked here specifically to get a perspective on going the all Festool route.  Unfortuntately my budget is pretty limited to include very many Festools on this go-round.  But as a planner I am also thinking about future growth and expansion.

The CMS is fantastic - but a budget breaker.

Currently, Festool TS + Track is about $700, table saw is about $500, router, bit sets, and table (with some other accessories) about $1000. I'd love to add a dust extractor, but I was looking at space and was considering swapping the table saw for the MFT/3.

Keep in mind I also have a bandsaw, and while it is a different instrument, resawing and whatnot will be done with it.  I also have an old craftsman chop saw.  I use it extensively and it is pretty darn good at staying square.  I'll put some supports on it for now and dream of the Kapex.

Weather you go table saw or not the most important thing for me would be the "Dust Extractor".  Some woods will cause you physical problems if your not very careful wearing dust masks regularly.  If I could go back 35 years and change my priorities I would have purchased a dust control system first before many machines or tools.  It might not work for you but, I have purchased car covers for my wife's cars for the past twenty years and don't hesitate to put the cover on or off as needed, it sure expanded my shop by 50%.

Jack

 

[waltwood]

I want to add that I think the track saws are safer than a table saw. I have had and seen many bad things happen with a table saw. The blade retracts after each cut and there are no kickbacks with the tracksaws.

I just used mine in someones living room yesterday for the first time because it was raining out and it left almost no dust using the CT26. I have a $5000 table saw and I use it one third of the time after buying the TS55.

Regarding kickback...http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/ts55-kickback/?all there are other threads also

Yes, if you do everything wrong with it as described in the thread, it could kickback.

 

[Paul G]

I want to add that I think the track saws are safer than a table saw. I have had and seen many bad things happen with a table saw. The blade retracts after each cut and there are no kickbacks with the tracksaws.

I just used mine in someones living room yesterday for the first time because it was raining out and it left almost no dust using the CT26. I have a $5000 table saw and I use it one third of the time after buying the TS55.

Regarding kickback...http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/ts55-kickback/?all there are other threads also

Yes, if you do everything wrong with it as described in the thread, it could kickback.

Not exactly, it's a real possibility when doing plunge cuts which is a legit use of the tool. Stops help mitigate the problem but no one should be thinking kickback isn't a possibility. When dealing with power tools I want to be eyes wide open about any risks and never let my guard down thinking something can't happen.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

+1 to dust control as a priority...consider it a part of your safety requirement.

Yes, I had a scary kick-back once with a TS75...good thing that I had two hands on the saw!

FWIW, DeWalt has a new portable table saw. It came out Dec. 2013?

DEWALT DWE7491RS 10-Inch Jobsite Table Saw with 32-1/2-Inch Rip Capacity and Rolling Stand

 

[Kev]

Of all of the site/contractor saws I've seen lately, the most recent revision of the Metabo seems pretty impressive. I came dangerously close to impulse buying one just before Christmas.

 

[wrightwoodwork]

Dust collection is well worth doing a track saw and small table saw can compliment each other. There is no such thing as a dangerous tool. It's a dangerous operator

 

[Sparktrician]

Weather you go table saw or not the most important thing for me would be the "Dust Extractor".  Some woods will cause you physical problems if your not very careful wearing dust masks regularly. 

+1!!! 

 

[Dionysus480]

just wait and see what comes along.

This is along the lines of some other advice I ran across.  I was out in the workshop last night and realized my allotted infeed area for the table saw is only about 4 feet long.  I thought about it, and I don't think cost is why I'm reluctant to add a table saw, I think its space at this point.  Generally bigger saw means more capability but usually takes more space.  Smaller saw, more limited use (but as pointed out, may still be useful) but fits in smaller footprint.  The commonality I see is that the infeed and outfeed areas still need to allow for the workpiece.

I think I'll get the track saw and use it extensively.  Once I understand what I can do with it (me, personally with my skill) I can make a much better decision on the tasks I would require a table saw to accomplish and how frequently those tasks occur.  Then I can decide on whether to sacrifice the shop space for it.

So - Tracksaw, CT MIDI, Dust Deputy, and an extra rail for sure.  I was watching Domino videos all night.  I think I may hit my wife up for a little more moola and splurge.  As I said, I only dowel at this point, and I'm tired of it and don't really enjoy the task.  The Domino looks very intriguing.

 

[jacko9]

just wait and see what comes along.

This is along the lines of some other advice I ran across.  I was out in the workshop last night and realized my allotted infeed area for the table saw is only about 4 feet long.  I thought about it, and I don't think cost is why I'm reluctant to add a table saw, I think its space at this point.  Generally bigger saw means more capability but usually takes more space.  Smaller saw, more limited use (but as pointed out, may still be useful) but fits in smaller footprint.  The commonality I see is that the infeed and outfeed areas still need to allow for the workpiece.

I think I'll get the track saw and use it extensively.  Once I understand what I can do with it (me, personally with my skill) I can make a much better decision on the tasks I would require a table saw to accomplish and how frequently those tasks occur.  Then I can decide on whether to sacrifice the shop space for it.

So - Tracksaw, CT MIDI, Dust Deputy, and an extra rail for sure.  I was watching Domino videos all night.  I think I may hit my wife up for a little more moola and splurge.  As I said, I only dowel at this point, and I'm tired of it and don't really enjoy the task.  The Domino looks very intriguing.

I don't think you'll go wrong with the Domino and it is a much better joint than doweling.

I think your on the right track, good luck.

Jack

 

[Dionysus480]

Well - update with a new specific set of questions.

I really did my research and bought a Sawstop PCS and absolutely love it!  First projects have just been so much fun using it.  I find myself LOOKING for reasons to use the table saw.  Awesome service, just really pleased.  Built several cabinets and other small projects.

So - I'm still looking for my entry into Festool - basically spent my money and had to spend some time appeasing my wife before spending more... (Actually - she fell right into my trap!  She like the results of the cabinets/organizers for the new house, but HATES the sawdust over her car... Just in time for me to hit her up for Festool!)

Anyway - I have a line on a possible used TS55 EQ.  I noticed it doesn't have an "R"

The guide rail looks undamaged as does the saw (really good condition - 2 blades), although it doesn't have a zero clearance on it.

Questions:

Any specific things to look at on the saw to see if there are hidden issues with it?
Do I need an REQ as opposed to an older EQ (don't completely understand the difference)?
Lastly - Can I set this saw up for good performance without any prior experience with a Festool TS?  I'm imagining something being out of alignment and my frustration just because I don't know any better.  Anyone have a good source for instructions on "tuning up" a used track saw like this?

My plan would be to buy new zero clearance edges and possibly a new blade (heck - turn the ones on it in for sharpening...)

Seems like a deal if I can save a couple hundred bucks over a new REQ.

 

[batcave]

Since you have the table saw, I'd invest in a sander/vac combo. It will bring more value to your shop at this time. Even just a ets125 would make shop life better.

Kevin

 

[Dionysus480]

Thanks and yes. Ets 125 and ct midi is up next. In this case, it was too good a deal and I picked up the used saw. Made some cuts this morning and it's awesome. My 20+ year old craftsman is going to the dump. Breaking down sheet goods just went from my least favorite task to enjoyable.

My old sander just broke. My wife might get suspicious if I don't wait a week to two though.

 

[Jmaichel]

I would suggest skipping the Domino for now in favor of an MFT/3. If you really want a TS to replace a table saw then I think you need to step up to a TS-75. Cutting 8/4 material with a TS-55 can be a PITA. The Domino is cool but I think you will find the MFT/3 a lot more useful when you start building cabinets. I would skip the ETS-125 and go with the ETS 150 and DTS 400 and why not just step up to a CT-26.

 

[jacko9]

I think that skipping the Domino for a "bench" is a non-value decision.  Since you already have a table saw, you don't need a track saw and the Domino joiner will give you the ability to cut mortise and tenon joints a capability I assume you don't already have.  Don't waste your money duplicating tools or fixtures you already have unless it's for a quantum improvement.

Jack

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

I have a DeWalt jobsite saw. Yesterday, I was very happy to have a track saw for breaking down some ply. Like Jack said though, if I had a Sawstop PCS on-site, then I would have been comfortable cutting up ply on it. Make sure to build a good out-feed table. It is safer to have one. Go with a Domino.