Buying advise

[SanderS]

Hey Guys,

It's my first post on this forum.
I've been reading here for several weeks now, and found some great information.

I'm currently in the market for buying some new tools.
I'll use them for my job and for some major DIY work in my own house.
My main occupation at this moment is the placement of solar modules and as a normal electrician.
I also do some small renovations for family.

At this moment I am using the Makita LXT 14,4V range for about five years and there up and running.
I am using them in every weather condition.
The impact driver (BTD130F) is a great tool.
I mainly use this for driving is wood-screws (8x120 or 8x80mm) in Douglas or Oregon rafters. (for the installation of roof hooks)
I use my drill/driver (BDF442) for pre-drilling holes for the above wood-screws and normal construction purposes.
Before I bought the BDF442 drill/driver is use the BHP441, but this was to heavy and clumsy to use on the roof all day long.
It isn't particularly stronger than the other drill/driver either and the beat drill function sucks.

During the coming months I will do a renovation of my own house which is already half finished.
We are already living there and I would like to keep the discomfort for my family as small as possible. (I want to work as dust-free as possible)
I need to convert the attic to two bedrooms (lots of drywall construction), insulate the roof (thickening out the existing roof construction, to place a thicker insulation layer), place skylights, renew the bathroom, and build a lot of built-in cabinets all over the house.
So that is the task at hand.

What am I looking for:
First of all I would like to replace my current drill/drivers for something better. (the impact driver is great and I will keep using this)
For the work on the roof (pre-dilling 5mm holes), I think the CSX is more then enough and light weight will be a real benefit here. 
I could also use this for the assembly of the built in cabinets and general work.
Will this however be strong enough for the construction of the framing work for the walls?
Should I buy a CSX and a T15+3 for the heavier work or take a look at the C range?
(I do like the depth stop chuck for all the drywall work I am going to do)

The plunge-cut saw seems to be a no brainer.
No questions about this one.

A router!
Never worked with one before.
Where to start?
I think they will come in handy when making the cabinets.
(The Domino seems a real good tool for this also, but both is going to extend my budget to far)

When looking and reading about the sanders the choice is also to big for me.
There seems to be a different sander for every application, where I would like to buy a all-round sander for all purposes. (Which of course doesn't exist)
I will mainly use this for the drywall sanding. (wall and ceilings)
If I could also use this for the cabinets, it would be great.
Thinking of the ETS 125 or 150 myself, correct me if I'm wrong. (the 150 will be to heavy for sanding ceilings)
The planex would of course be great for the drywall, but I can not justify the cost when not working with it constantly.

The extractor also seems to be a difficult choice, especially because of the drywall sanding I am going to do.
Should I look at a special type because of this?

Am I forgetting anything, any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for helping me with my questions,

Best Regards,
 
Sander (yep, that's my name)

 

[ccarrolladams]

[welcome] to The FOG, Sander!

I own a large custom cabinet business. I personally have not installed any cabinets since the early 1960s. Consequently I am the only woodworker I know who never used any batter-powered drills/drivers until Festool introduced the CXS. I do my work inside my shop, which as electrical outlets close to every work station. I am used to having my tools connected to outlets. Still, I love the features of the CXS, especially the sophisticated torque control for sensitive driving of cabinet hardware screws.

My suggestion is to start with the OF1010 plunge router, especially for cabinet making. It has 1000 watts of power, with is more than enough for making grooves and rabbets of 20mm or less. The OF1010 in my opinion is best for LR32 drilling.

You are located in Europe, so should you decide to buy the Festool router table CMS, you can equip it with the OF2200 plunge router. I have used this combo in classes and also while in Europe on trips. Unfortunately currently in North America use of the OF2200 in the CMS is not approved.

I own both TS55 and TS75 plunge track saws, but I use the TS55 the most. Before the current CT26, CT36 and CT48 were introduced, I had already purchased several CT22, which in my experience have proven very effective. I do own a CT36 which installers working for me use on sites.

The Kapex has made a lot of money for me and I own several of them.

The Festool sanders are marvelous. Which sander is best for you is a function of how you work and the projects you build.

 

[fatroman]

Since you are working for yourself, and not in a production environment, I'll offer the following recommendations:

Yes, you can use the CXS for framing. I use mine to run pilot holes and then switch centrotec heads to drive 3" and 3 1/2" screws and it's not been a problem. Much nicer than listening to my Makita impact. Do make sure you have the second battery charged up, though. You aren't going to want to run Tapcons or hole saws with it, but the CXS is a really handy drill for many applications. More than I thought I'd use it for in fact.

You don't really need the depth stop chuck for drywall. Once you start setting a few screws you'll get the hang of how they need to sit. I use the CXS to run drywall screws, as well.

Since I was turned on to using the DTS400 for drywall (thanks Rob!) it's done a fantastic job and made a big difference in the surface finish. Working on one room at a time for you? That would be perfectly fine. No need to do the Planex.

Any of the extractors will work for your needs. I use a CT22 for everything, including drywall. I do find occasionally that a smaller one would be handy to tote across the house to a different project, or even outside. But if you want to run the Boom Arm, then you'll need one of the larger vacs.

Router for cabinets? If the bit I want to use comes in a 1/4 or 8mm size, I much prefer the 1010 to the 1400. Principally because of the dust extraction hookup. I don't at all like the snap in plastic device on the 1400. And I think the 1010 just handles better. If you were planning to build something bigger than cabinets, then the 1400 might be a better choice, though I think the best combination of routers is the 1010 and the 2200.

Do get a bigger D36 sized hose. It makes for better dust collection on both the router and the plunge saw. You'll still need the smaller D27 hose (I assume that comes with the vac in Europe like it does here) for the sander.

Oh, and welcome!

 

[lecozthomas]

Hi Sander,
I choose the CT26 one year ago for my business (handyman, carpenter). I was about to buy a Midi but the guy at the shop convinced me to spend an extra couple of hundreds dollars to get more suction and extra bag capacity. I wouldn't get any bigger (like the 36) because of the weight. When the bag is half full it's already quite heavy to carry around the worksite. If it's to stay in a workshop you can go bigger but not to carry around.
I've got the Rotex 150 and 90, both great, both virtually dust free, i'm hardly doing any drywall sanding so i don't know if they're the best in the range for that but they're doing amazing work for cabinet making etc.
Plunge saw, i've got the 55, clearly great tool and time saving. I did the mistake to by an extra 1400 rail when i bought the saw which is not the best idea because most of the time the max length you need is 2400 to cut standard size panels so a 1000 is enough and most useful to cut small pieces. (so finally i  bought a 800!!)
I've got the T18 with all the different chucks. Very powerful, the battery last forever, the 90deg  chuck saved me hours of painful work in tight areas and the eccentric one is pretty handy for cabinet making. The CSX looks like a very good choice for cabinet making especially for that price!

 

[RC]

[welcome]

Which ever Festool you get make sure you have a vacuum to start off with. CTL26E is plenty good for everything around a house and unless you are sanding drywall you don't do anything with the AC-model (I have one and I have the AC-feature disabled all the time when working with wood only). Some tools like the Domino actually won't work without active dust extraction, so get one early on. They come default with the 27mm antistatic hose in Europe too. (I can't understand why the hose with integrated plug-it isn't the golden standard thou, since I'm damned if I'll shell another 150€ to get one and then be stuck with two 27mm hoses. I have heard that some retailers might let you swap the hose for the integrated one for a few euros in between, but our local ones didn't do deals like that. ) The 26 is size wise very optimal with it fitting nicely under the MFT table and storing under stairs as well as being still light enough to carry even when the bag is full with saw dust. It's just as powerfull as the larger models - only the bag size and the bottom plastic tub are different between the models.

I got an OF1400 router as my first Festool and what a mess it was without an extractor and when I borrowed an Kärcher extractor it performed half decently with the hose getting blocked every 5min, but now that I finally bought a CT-vac it has been working like a charm even thou I usually can't be bothered to get the 36mm hose out for the odd routing job and just run it on the default 27mm one.

I agree with the previous posters that you should look hard at getting the 1010 router set to start off with and maybe get the LR32 hole drilling kit and a holy rail to go (FS1400/2 LR32) for cabinet work. It has a slightly more complicated setup of copy rings than the OF1400, but it's about half the size and plenty powerful for free-hand use. If later you feel the need for more power (larger diameter router bits) or table routing and want to stay within the Festool system I think the OF2200 CMS-kit is the way to go (I have the OF1400+CMS-set only and find swapping the router in and out just boring enough that it never gets inserted into the table).

With regards to the Domino it's a treat to use to make quick joints and well worth the money if compared to a Lamello bisquit machine or routing manual joints. I use a DF500 and the 10x50 dominoes seem to keep my boxes nicely together even in 2"x4" stock. Two dominoes to a joint.

The 36mm hose will give you more suction, but you can use even the routers with a 27mm hose with reasonably good dust extraction if money's tight initially. You can ask father Christmas for the hose if you feel that its required. I've understood that the Kapex benefits most from the larger hose and I know that my router likes it too. I don't have a Kapex, so don't have first hand experience of it.

Oh, and I've successfully drilled 30mm holes with Forstner bits on my CXS, but that is pushing it to the limit. It'll happily do the 5mm holes you are talking about and drive normal screws easily.

 

[hockey_magnet]

Assuming you don't already have a good portable work surface, I would highly recommend the MFT/3, particularly for use with the TS, but it's fantastic for a large number of uses

Chris

 

[SanderS]

Thanks for the quick replies and great advise!

Did some more reading regarding the advise I received about different parts I want to purchase and made a final list.

I will start of with the CSX with all the chucks.
Did take a look at the systainer with all the centrotec parts, but it is quite expensive.
Does any one own this kit and is it a good purchase, or should I just buy everything separately I think I need?

Next is the TS 55R plunge cut saw kit with the FS1400 rail

The OF1010 seems to be the router to start with.
Did also take a look at the LR32 hole drilling kit and FS1400/2 LR32 rail.
Could I also use this rail for the plunge cut saw and connect it to the normal FS1400 rail or is it better to buy a normal FS rail and only use the special rail for routing?

As advised I will go for the DTS400 sander. (mainly for sanding the drywall)
I did see that there is quite some difference in sanding paper that some of you have used for drywall sanding and have not yet decided with paper to buy.
Maybe try out a few.
I will also use this for the cabinets in the first place.
Mainly for sanding MDF and plywood.

As for the vacuum cleaner I have chosen  the CTL26.
Not decides about the AC option, because I see most of you guys don't have this or just didn't state it.
There is gonna be quite some drywall sanding in the coming months however, but only one room at a time.
Any suggestions? What do you use?
I will try to switch the standard D27 hose for the one with the lead included, this will be handy for sanding ceilings.
An extra D36 hose is also on the list. 

The MFT/3 will be the last part.
Some additional clams are also needed.
Thinking of a quick clamp set and "clamping elements 2-pack"

I will wait with a T15 or 18, and the domino will also have to wait.
I will already have to sell my wife or some organs to do do this purchase ;-)

Any last suggestions?

 

[hockey_magnet]

Just to note that many of these tools are available in combo's that will save you some money. For example the TS 55 with MFT/3 or Vacuum, etc.

 

[jc]

Hello, my first Festool purchase was the RO90 rotex sander.  However, I have, over time, read good things about the Mirka Ceros sander.  Since you'd most likely want a lighter sander for drywall, perhaps you may want to check it out.  I wasn't aware the Ceros existed before I got the RO90, don't want you to make the same mistake. 

 

[green fever]

welcome , if you can hang on until October festool tend to do promotions throughout Europe so i would hold fire until the offers are out there as you may end up buying  twice if you return an item  under the 30 day return period, that said the cxs is a very good drill to have as part of your arsenal , if you cant afford the domino why not just buy a biscuit cutter for the router and go domino if you will require one later, as for sander i have dts 400 , rotex 90 rotex 150 and 75 belt sander, i like the ro90 because you can change the sanding heads but i have a use for all my sanders so its hard to pick the best but for two if i had to carry them around would be the dts400 and the ro90, and the midi vac i only use my ct33 for the kapex and routers.

 

[RC]

You might want to look if the CXS kit with the extras from the spring deals are still available at your location (you get some torx, pozidrive bits and a set of centrotec wood drills in a nice systainer with storage space in the lid) for pretty much the normal CXS price.

I would try to get the default FS1400 rail that comes with the TS saw swapped to a holy rail from the get-go since they are entirely interchangeable except for the holes that are required by the LR32 drilling system. If your reseller is good enough to do the swap of the hose he'll most likely swap the rail as well. That will leave your options open whether to purchase a single long rail (FS3000) or fool around with the extensions.

There is always a little stop when running the saw over the extension however exactly you align the two rails whereas a single long rail is obviously harder to store but works smoothly all the way. You will also receive an 800 rail with the MFT/3 table and I have been happy for now with joining that and the 1400 one together for the odd times when the 1400 one hasn't been long enough. Oh, and if you get the OF1010 kit there is a short rail to that as well I think if you want to go hard core with rail extending  [wink].

If you don't have a good work table yet I'd see if there is a deal for the TS-saw + MFT going at the moment and purchase that to start off with (and the VAC!).

 

[SanderS]

Thanks for the new suggestions.

I did try to look for the package deals but I couldn't find them on the Belgium website.
Are these package deals composed by the resellers or does Festool make them?

The Mirka sander looks quite a nice little sander.
I will start of with the DTS400, mainly because I can also reach the corners, but I won't forget about this sander.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

At this moment I think I will by a biscuit cutter to start with. (Also to get some experience with routing)
Maybe by a second hand Domino will also be an option.

Here you will get a free chuck with the C12/15 and T range drills at this moment.
There are no other promotions that I can find.
You can win one device a month and 10000euro worth of materials at the end of the year because of the anniversary.
The only thing you will have to do, is register your products, but this is a lottery system and I have never won anything, so I won't put my hope on this.

I hope the reseller will be prepared to be a little supple concerning the rail, the hose, a package deal, etc., especially if I am going to buy a lot of tools at the same time.
There is a Festool "open door day" this weekend at my reseller, so maybe I can make some nice deals.
I will also inform myself of the up coming promotions of October, and make my decision in buying accordingly.
 
Thanks for all the help!

 

[RC]

Oh, and what ever you do, steer clear of the Carvex 400's regardless of the deal and rather opt for the new 420 model which might actually work.

 

[RONWEN]

Thanks for the quick replies and great advise!

Did some more reading regarding the advise I received about different parts I want to purchase and made a final list.

I will start of with the CSX with all the chucks.
Did take a look at the systainer with all the centrotec parts, but it is quite expensive.
Does any one own this kit and is it a good purchase, or should I just buy everything separately I think I need?

Next is the TS 55R plunge cut saw kit with the FS1400 rail

The OF1010 seems to be the router to start with.
Did also take a look at the LR32 hole drilling kit and FS1400/2 LR32 rail.
Could I also use this rail for the plunge cut saw and connect it to the normal FS1400 rail or is it better to buy a normal FS rail and only use the special rail for routing?

As advised I will go for the DTS400 sander. (mainly for sanding the drywall)
I did see that there is quite some difference in sanding paper that some of you have used for drywall sanding and have not yet decided with paper to buy.
Maybe try out a few.
I will also use this for the cabinets in the first place.
Mainly for sanding MDF and plywood.

As for the vacuum cleaner I have chosen  the CTL26.
Not decides about the AC option, because I see most of you guys don't have this or just didn't state it.
There is gonna be quite some drywall sanding in the coming months however, but only one room at a time.
Any suggestions? What do you use?
I will try to switch the standard D27 hose for the one with the lead included, this will be handy for sanding ceilings.
An extra D36 hose is also on the list.   

The MFT/3 will be the last part.
Some additional clams are also needed.
Thinking of a quick clamp set and "clamping elements 2-pack"

I will wait with a T15 or 18, and the domino will also have to wait.
I will already have to sell my wife or some organs to do do this purchase ;-)

Any last suggestions?

Yes, keep your organs...  [wink]

Welcome to the FOG!

 

[SanderS]

Went to visit the Festool event at my reseller yesterday.
They told me there are no more promotions to expect in Belgium this year. (Hope there giving me the correct information)

Because of the event they did offer me some free parts.
- clamping elements 2 pack
- FS1400/ 2LR32 rail
- guide rail connector
- 5 self clean filter bags for the CTL 26 AC
- One Brilliant 2 P220 abrasives pack

I think I can be quite happy with the deal.

Now the only thing I have to do, is wait a few days for them to deliver the stuff.

 

[RONWEN]

Went to visit the Festool event at my reseller yesterday.
They told me there are no more promotions to expect in Belgium this year. (Hope there giving me the correct information)

Because of the event they did offer me some free parts.
- clamping elements 2 pack
- FS1400/ 2LR32 rail
- guide rail connector
- 5 self clean filter bags for the CTL 26 AC
- One Brilliant 2 P220 abrasives pack

I think I can be quite happy with the deal.

Now the only thing I have to do, is wait a few days for them to deliver the stuff.

I would say that you got an outstanding deal -- those are all very useful to you.  [thumbs up]

 

[terrystouf]

  I would advise to buy tools you need , as opposed to buying a tool and trying to find a use for it .If you have never used a router , buying one by itself to make cabinets ,it will be the smallest tip of the iceberg, you will need a table saw(some will argue this , try ripping 2" wide strips all day with a track saw vs table saw),miter saw, router table,drill press or equivalent hinge drilling jig ,edge bander , clamps, a lot of expensive bits etc...Buy books first or take a course . If you want to make some cabinets for yourself , (you will not save any money if your time is worth anything but you will learn a lot) , you could start with making the boxes , and if you want fancy raised panels , get them made for you , or make some flat ones yourself and ease your self into it.I am still amazed by the number of novice wood workers who insist on buying the absolutely best and most expensive tools available as a first time purchase , thinking that is the only way to make nice stuff, sure it wont hurt , but Its all about the guy using them , and the skill level you have with the tools , not the skill you think the tools will give you.There has been a lot beautiful stuff made with comparatively crap tools ... That said, buy quality tools, and Festools are the cream of the crop ... Best of luck.