cabinet coat

[mrFinpgh]

I stopped in the paint store to pick up some ceiling paint and happened to ask the salesperson about their waterborne lacquers.  He sells Lenmar but doesn't keep a lot on the shelves.  He did, however, suggest that I look into Insl-X's Cabinet Coat product, and he said that seems to sell more.

To that end, he gave me a gallon to test out and give him some feedback on. 

I figured I would try rolling it, brushing it, and spraying it.  I have a Fuji 4 stage hvlp sprayer, but have only a tiny bit of experience.  Setting up to spray in my basement is a production, so if there is any chance I can get something good w/ a roller I'm interested.

I have  1.3mm and 1.0 mm air cap.  Should I use a different size for this? 

Anybody else have any tips about how to use this product successfully?

Thanks,
Adam

 

[mrFinpgh]

First round of testing:

I did three test panels tonight on some MDF to get a feel for how this stuff rolls.  The salesperson recommended a velour roller for it, so that's what I went with in this case.

I did panels at three thicknesses : about 7mil, 5.5mil, and 2.5mil. 

The 7 mil was an abberation - I had way too much paint on my roller cover.

View attachment 1

That it still leveled out decently well.  Too much texture though, especially for cabinets.

The 5.5 mil was a bit fuzzier, but I think some of that comes from going over raw mdf with a waterbourne finish.  I'm wondering if I would have liked the results more if I had primed with BIN and sanded before putting on the first coat.  The paint is supposed to be relatively self-priming, but I think sealing the MDF would have benefited me here.

View attachment 2

The 2.5mil was a bit of an afterthought, so the MDF wasn't really prepped in any way (the other two were sanded to 220).  2.5 is about 1mil below the bottom of their recommended range (3.6-4.6 mils) but it covered decently well and I am curious to see what a second coat looks like after sanding the first.

View attachment 3

Somehow, I managed to avoid being in the right target range for thickness.  I'm going to have to work on that.  The other variable that seems obvious is the velour roller cover.  I still have quite a few Purdy 3/8 white dove mini-covers, and it might be interesting to see whether those give me better results. 

If it can work out, it would be nice to have the option of rolling the painted section of the cabinets - it's basically 2 doors, 3 drawer fronts, and a bunch of panels.  I have a sprayer, but I'm not good with it (yet) and soon it's going to be getting colder which will impact the feasibility of spraying (waterbourne finishes) in my basement.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Pnw painter]

I've used Cabinet Coat on a few projects, but I've only brushed it and sprayed it using an airless.

Straight out of the can I found CC to be a little thick for brushing. Adding a small amount of water it really helped the paint level and improve the workability. It's a fast drying paint so you have to move quickly and not obsess about trying to make it look flawless when brushing. Giving the paint time to level works better than trying to re-work and keep brushing it too much.

I'd suggest that you try priming some MDF. It pulls moisture out of paint very quickly, which probably doesn't make it a great substrate for testing.

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[bkharman]

I'd suggest that you try priming some MDF. It pulls moisture out of paint very quickly, which probably doesn't make it a great substrate for testing.

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Try priming with Zinsser BIN (shellac based). Great primer for mdf.

Cheers. Bryan.

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[mrFinpgh]

I've used Cabinet Coat on a few projects, but I've only brushed it and sprayed it using an airless.

Straight out of the can I found CC to be a little thick for brushing. Adding a small amount of water it really helped the paint level and improve the workability. It's a fast drying paint so you have to move quickly and not obsess about trying to make it look flawless when brushing. Giving the paint time to level works better than trying to re-work and keep brushing it too much.

I'd suggest that you try priming some MDF. It pulls moisture out of paint very quickly, which probably doesn't make it a great substrate for testing.

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Thanks, [member=40801]Pnw painter[/member] .  So far, I've been focused on rolling it and it does seem a bit thick. I haven't tried thinning it, yet.

My latest testing involved priming with coats of BIN and sanding smooth to 220.  I then rolled Cabinet coat on @ 4 and 5 mils with a velour roller. 

In both cases, I'm getting a substantial amount of orange peel, even though the texture of the substrate is not poking through quite so much anymore.

I'm suspecting that perhaps 4 and 5 mils is too thick with this kind of roller cover and maybe I should try dropping to two mils.  The TDS specifies 3.6-4.6 mils, but perhaps the situation is different if you apply it by hand?

Try priming with Zinsser BIN (shellac based). Great primer for mdf.

Cheers. Bryan.

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When you posted this, I was actually just leaving the store after buying some BIN.  I'm a big fan of the stuff, and it definitely did a great job sealing the MDF.    I always like how easily it sands compared to most other primers.

As I mention above, I'm suspecting that the prescribed thickness may be too much with a roller and that I need to lay it down much lighter in order to avoid getting the texture I'm getting.    I'll have to see if I can find a sweet spot between dry rolling it and the prescribed film thickness, where hopefully these mythical leveling qualities present themselves.

Thanks,
Adam

These experiments are interesting, but never fun - usually I need to

 

[bkharman]

Adam,

Do you need to stick with cabinet coat?  Just asking as there are definitely more forgiving products. I personally have never used it. Maybe just get tinted BIN!  ;^)

I use a lot of Sherwin Williams and their Pro Classic line rolls extremely well. I used it on a kitchen update in the spring and it was a treat.

If you are stuck with using CC, I agree that a few lighter coats might lay down better.

Cheers. Bryan.

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[mrFinpgh]

Adam,

Do you need to stick with cabinet coat?  Just asking as there are definitely more forgiving products. I personally have never used it. Maybe just get tinted BIN!  ;^)

I use a lot of Sherwin Williams and their Pro Classic line rolls extremely well. I used it on a kitchen update in the spring and it was a treat.

If you are stuck with using CC, I agree that a few lighter coats might lay down better.

Cheers. Bryan.

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Nope, I'm just testing it out since the sales person gave me a gallon to try out for the price of my feedback on it.

My original plan was to spray Lenmar dura laq through my hvlp gun.  I'm not too experienced at spraying, though, so a rollable/brushable finish that laid down well does have some appeal given the scope of this project. 

I'm going to give some lighter coats a shot and see where that goes.  Part of this for me is just learning how to do more with paint than walls and trim.  I think going through the process of trying different things ultimately will make me a little bit more informed about how to solve future problems.

I remember looking at your kitchen project earlier in the year -  that turned out really well!

 

[bkharman]

Adam,

Do you need to stick with cabinet coat?  Just asking as there are definitely more forgiving products. I personally have never used it. Maybe just get tinted BIN!  ;^)

I use a lot of Sherwin Williams and their Pro Classic line rolls extremely well. I used it on a kitchen update in the spring and it was a treat.

If you are stuck with using CC, I agree that a few lighter coats might lay down better.

Cheers. Bryan.

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I remember looking at your kitchen project earlier in the year -  that turned out really well!

Thanks mate. It was also a bit of trial and error! 

Good luck and let us know if you find a winning combination that works for CC.

How much is a gallon of the stuff?

Cheers. Bryan.

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[mrFinpgh]

Good luck and let us know if you find a winning combination that works for CC.

I think it runs somewhere around $50/gallon.  So somewhat less than I pay for Advance or Aura, which I'm more familiar with.

I did some new experimentation after sanding the previous coat (mostly) flat @ 220.  I switched to a 3/8" nap microfiber mini roller and tried to get my coverage closer to 2mil instead of the 4-6 mil i was doing before.  This seemed to work out a little better.  I put on a coat yesterday, scuff sanded it @ 320 , and put another thin coat on tonight.  Tonight may have been a little bit too thin, as I noticed a couple holidays after I cleaned everything up.

Under critical light, there is still some obvious texture happening but nothing like what I had before. 

View attachment 1

That's 1500 lumens @ 5500k about 1 foot away from the surface.

Close up:
View attachment 2

View attachment 3

In more 'realistic' lighting conditions - two bulbs about 4 feet overhead:

View attachment 4

Same shot, with the more punishing lighting:

View attachment 5

I think this last coat may have gone slightly far in the opposite direction in terms of being applied thin.  I'll probably try to go a little thicker on the next coat and see if I can get closer to flat.  I'm not sure if a smaller nap roller would be useful for this, or if I just need to get better at controlling the consistency of thickness.