Calling UK Woodworkers - What's This About Table and Miter Saws?

[onocoffee]

Was just listening to the latest Shop Talk Live Podcast with Mike Peckovich and Phil Huber about their woodworking tour of the United Kingdom. They visited The Snowden School where they related their experience talking to the people there about their limited use of a table saw only for ripping and a precise miter saw to do crosscuts, tenoning and other tasks that we, in America, do mainly a table saw. I am fascinated by this and am interesting in learning more on how you utilize the miter saw.

In my own garage, I have an old miter saw but find very little use for it with the furniture making that I do now. Today, I was doing some table saw operations and switching back and forth between ripping and crosscut blades multiple times, making me think that another table saw might be more convenient, but if there's a way to utilize the miter saw more, that would be interesting,

The commentary on this starts at the 12:00 mark.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Let me try to steer you in a similar, but slightly divergent direction. I'll start by saying I rarely crosscut on my table saw. A few years ago I did most cross-cutting on a dialed in Hitachi sliding compound miter saw with an 8" blade (I know...heresy not to have a 10 or 12 inch miter saw).

Today I use a 1950s era DeWalt radial arm saw. One can be found on the secondary market for $100 or less, but the value isn't in getting it cheap, it is in discovering the beauty of these machines and why they dominated the pre- and post- WWII era woodworking shops (both pro and hobby) for 40ish years. They fell out of favor because the manufacturers started a race to the bottom in the late 60s, sacrificing design and manufacturing quality for price advantages.

Cross-cutting and mitering cuts are accurate and repeatable. Dadoing is a pleasure when you can actually see the cut being made. The power rating on the motor is ultra-conservative rather than a gross exaggeration.

The models to look for are MBC, MBF, 925 and 1400. Unless you're looking for a much bigger saw, then there are several other choices, but stick to 1940-1965.

I have a few, but not because I need more than one, I've just fallen in love with them and enjoy bringing them back to life. I have a 1400 set up with a big table on one side. My most recent ressurection is a 925 that might be the smoothest saw I've ever switched on. Here's a pic of it.

 

[AstroKeith]

Very few people in the UK have the space for a table saw, and certainly not as a permanent station. So we have learnt to use a mitre saw.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Radial Arm Saws are indeed far more versatile than the typical Miter Saw, but they take far more space too. Plus, they gained a bit of a reputation of safety issues. Granted, those were all "user error" problems, but it seemed to taint them for a while.
I have always had/used a SCMS, as a Pro, in a cabinet shop. It's certainly not that table saws were not around, but they were shared. It was much easier to maintain my own miter saw, at least for cuts within its capacity. We always had a sliding saw too, for larger cuts, but the SCMS was far handier, especially for miters. The big saw was better for bevels.
My first SCMS was an 8" model too, and I would say that I never had a capacity issue with it. I replaced it, after a fire, with a 10" version of the same saw (DeWalt) The change was only because of the increased availability of blades, specifically alternate tooth shapes. The 8" was not common enough.
IMHO, avoid all of the 12" models out there, with one exception. If you regularly need to cross-cut 4"x4"s (like fence posts) they can do that in one pass. This is not a precise cut, so the typical deflection or wobble, doesn't matter so much. For more precise, woodworking applications.....no. Framers, deck builders...sure, if you're willing to haul it around.
In later years, I switched much of my cross-cutting to a TS55, with a dedicated table.
Since my retirement and subsequent move, I have not used a table saw at all. I have a Dewalt contractor saw, still in the box, but the TS and miter saw have done everything so far.

That same fire destroyed the Maggi RAS, that the company owned, but it was never replaced. They chose a vertical panel saw instead, since it was never used for miters anyway.
Altogether, it seems like a preference thing? Either what someone was trained on, had access to, or is most comfortable using.

With a decent miter saw, a good blade, and a measuring stop system, miter saws are great. This is where a sled and table saw kind of fall off. A cross-cut on a piece over 40" or so, is not so great there. It is not only from moving the part, rather than the saw, stops are quite difficult at that length.
So again, the choice might be driven as much by what you do most often, as what you have available.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Radial arm saws were the bees knees at most places I worked in the door/timber industry, and were very popular about 20-30 years ago with DIY'ers, but have really fallen out of favour in recent years.

As a result you occasionally see them being offered for free, going to the scrappers if no one bites. Shame as they're a very useful machine used correctly.

 

[Mini Me]

In Oz Radial arm saws were used extensively on building sites for framing as they could be used for both cutting to length and trenching the top and bottom plates but when things changed and builders went to prefab frames delivered to the site everything changed and onsite saws were done away with. No one builds frames on site any longer as a general rule any longer and the most used tools are a nail gun and cordless drills. Houses are these days assembled like Lego, put a slab down and stand the frames up.

 

[Vtshopdog]

In later years, I switched much of my cross-cutting to a TS55, with a dedicated table.
Since my retirement and subsequent move, I have not used a table saw at all. I have a Dewalt contractor saw, still in the box, but the TS and miter saw have done everything so far.

Plus 1:
Once I built a Parf top for my MFT my small TS fell out of use and eventually I sold it. Tracksaw narrow rips are an issue that can be worked around but not at commercial speed.

I pair the Parf MFT with an easily mounted/removed Incra Positioner fence and a little 30 pound M18 SCMS with find 'em everywhere 7 1/4" blade. Absolutely love the little M18, drag it out in the yard all the time, dust port fits my Midi hose and have it mounted on a base with 96mm dog holes so it mounts on the MFT.

My priority is light and mobile, so we all end up finding what works for us.

 

[4nthony]

On the RAS topic, a while back, Stumpy Nubs did a fun video on the usefulness -- and craziness -- of the RAS. Regardless, I wish I had the space for one.



Mike Farrington and Frank Howarth have restoration videos and they see quite a bit of use in their shop.

 

[peter halle]

Well, here is something you don't see everyday: Military Radial Arm Saw






Peter

 

[rmhinden]

I have a table saw (SawStop PCS) and a Kapex miter saw. I do most of my cross cuts on the Kapex. I have a nice setup with reliable stop blocks, so I can get very repeatable cross cuts. For smaller cross cuts that don't work well on the Kapex, I use the table saw with a Jessem miter gauge, and a track saw for wider cuts than the Kapex can handle.

BTW, I continue to be terrified by radial arm saws. Too many stories about people cutoff off hands and arms.

Bob

 

[jeffinsgf]

Not Army Issue, but a combination of product promotion, horn-blowing and war time propaganda.

 

[mwolczko]

I grew up in the UK with a dad who was a woodworker (amateur and then pro) before moving to the US in the 90s. He had a table saw (self-built!) in his workshop, and I used a table saw in school shop class (we were taught to use them at age 11, in middle school). Neither place had a mitre saw (or miter saw if you prefer the American spelling), although dad had a chop saw at his workplace, iirc.
UK (and most European) houses are typically a lot smaller than Αmerican ones so I get that a track-miter combo is attractive, as are small table saws such as the CSC. We were lucky to have an older house with a cellar, which dad used for his workshop, but it was still small, around 8x10’.
Shortly after I moved to the US I discovered New Yankee Workshop and was amazed by Norm’s use of a RAS and dado blades — I’d never encountered either in the UK.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I have a table saw (SawStop PCS) and a Kapex miter saw. I do most of my cross cuts on the Kapex. I have a nice setup with reliable stop blocks, so I can get very repeatable cross cuts. For smaller cross cuts that don't work well on the Kapex, I use the table saw with a Jessem miter gauge, and a track saw for wider cuts than the Kapex can handle.

BTW, I continue to be terrified by radial arm saws. Too many stories about people cutoff off hands and arms.

Bob

At the door company I worked at years back, the guy operating the RAS had been using one for many years, but one day somehow had a momentary lapse, and cut most of 3 fingers off.

A couple went up the dust chute so they had to switch off the motor and go hunting in the hopper.

At the time he was most concerned that he got back the finger with his wedding ring.

Between the door companies and the mill/timber yards I worked at, there were lots of serious injuries back then involving almost every machine or tool you can think of with staff.