Can a plunge cut saw truly replace a table saw?

[Danny]

Hello,

I'm looking at purchasing what many consider the central piece of equipment for any woodworker - a table saw.  However, I would much prefer purchase a Festool plunge cut saw.  Some people argue that with a plunge cut saw, you don't need a table saw.

Already having a miter saw, do you believe a plunge cut saw could fulfill all my table saw needs?

If I was to purchase a plunge cut saw, will I still need to invest in a (perhaps "cheaper") table saw for some cuts that the plunge cut saw and the miter saw just can't cover.

Any comment, suggestion, idea on this would be greatly appreciated.

Danny

 

[kpeluso]

Danny,

IMHO, I would say yes. Depending on the work you are doing. I work out of a small 10x20 1-car garage. For a number of years I had a Grizzly 1023 cabinet saw crammed in there. When the TS75 became available, I sold the Table Saw and bought the TS75 and MFT3. Anything they cant do, my bandsaw can. Maybe its just my workflow and what I build, but Ive never regretted selling my table saw. I did debate selling the table saw for a loooong time before I finally pulled the trigger.

 

[jujigatame]

I Love love love my TS55, but I wouldn't say it replaces my table saw.

I do use the track saw a lot more than any other saw in my workshop, but it doesn't do everything.

For rip cuts there is nothing better than a good tablesaw and fence.  I rarely use my tablesaw for crosscuts or miter cuts since I have the track saw, but it is a lot easier and more accurate to use my tablesaw for ripping.

I would say you still should invest in a good table saw and a track saw.

 

[rdesigns]

I have both, and I use the table saw more often in the shop, except for when I need to process sheet goods.

The Festool plunge cut saws can do almost anything a table saw can, but will be slower for certain tasks.

I would recommend the plunge cut saw as your first inventment, then buy a table saw when you can. (Before the table saw, I would also recommend getting the MFT/3 and a Festool dust collector.)

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I say no.  I still have 2 table saws, one for nothing but ripping with an 18" blade, the other for cross cut work, beveled work, short rips, and large dado work (holds a 2+" stack).

I rarely use sheet goods, most of my work is with solid timber, but when I do my 55 is great. 

I use my 55 75% of time for field work.

 

[ScotF]

This topic comes up about every month and you will get a range of responses -- you have the yes camp and the no camp and the "it depends" on what you intend to do camp.  I think that you can do almost everything with a plunge cut saw that you can with a table saw and get very accurate results, especially when paired up with Parallel Guides and an MFT/3.  I posted a video series on FOG in July with a Hall Table I built using nothing but Festool tools (except for jointing and planing and jigsaw) for my power tools.  There were lots of cuts that I made with the TS75, PG's and my MFT/3.  I did this to demonstrate how versatile and accurate Festool tools are and how you can accomplish a myriad of tasks without the use of a tablesaw.  I own a 3 hp Cabinet Saw and it is very accurate and heavy duty, but since I have the TS75 I do not think it has been turned on in close to 2 years.  I think that a good bandsaw is a more versatile choice for a stationary machine and you can pretty much accomplish everything with this set-up from processing sheet goods to working with solid wood.  I keep debating with myself over selling the cabinet saw and reclaiming some valuable real estate.  Lots of users get the TS55 or TS75 and then add a smaller table saw/job-site saw for narrow rips as this can be faster or easier to set up.  You can always by the TS55 or TS75 and try it out for 30 days to see if it works as expected or fits your workflow and/or return it or buy a table saw later to supplement it...

There are lots of users here that have gone that route and it seems to work fine for most things.  I think it really comes down to speed and ease of use and with practice, you can achieve good results with the Festool system.

Scot

 

[peter halle]

I will whole heartedly agree with Scot.  I am one of those guys who has a TS55 and a DeWalt portable contractor table saw.  Since I got the TS55 in 2006 I have rarely used the table saw for anything except of narrow rips.

Now to add to the mix, I am a little more unusual in that I also own a full size panel saw.  I have not used that saw since I got my TS55.  That might say something.

Peter

 

[hockey_magnet]

If you have the room, there are things that a small table saw will do much more easily than a track saw, the main one being small narrow rips BUT the Ts55 does pretty much everything I need, just sometimes a bit slower to set up. As someone else stated, if you're just going to go with a track saw, the MFT/3 or equivalent is a must, otherwise forget it, IMHO

 

[NEW2FES]

NO it can't. It can compliment one but in the real world they each have their place.

Problem with the Festool system is they did not address cutting or ripping boards or stock that are narrower then say 4". Try and rip a 8' 4x1 to say 3x1 and you will understand. With a table saw it is a simple adjust the fence and go. Can it be done with the track saw?? Yes but with quite a bit of time and other accys.

It is a great system for ripping larger boards or panels. That was the shortcoming of table saws unless you had a sliding table which most don't. Ripping a 4/8 down using the track saw is easy as pie.

I think a lot of people get carried away and make the set up almost a super hero of tools and make a lot of excuses for it's shortcomings. Be warned that if you look at all the jigs and attachments you will need to make somewhat simple cuts they are also usually posted by the same people who claim it can do it all.  Also what kind of work are you doing? Basic rough carpentry or fine furniture building?

Just look at the overall purchase needed not just thinking you can get the rest down the line as you will find out you need just about all the accys to do a complete job. Then there is the question of what people think is accurate. I will only say do you think table saws are made of thick castings and  expensive rock solid fence systems for nothing? Read any forum and the complaint of table saws is getting them accurate. I do not feel that the track saw is accurate enough for me. There are just too many parts that move to make the cuts I want that can be made in seconds with a table saw with a solid fence. It is accurate when cutting a large panel that supports the entire track but even then I check at several points as when tracks are joined there is movement.

I think Festool could easily replace a table saw but for some reason they took the product to a certain level and then just stopped. At the prices charged you shouldn't have to jury rig something to make a basic cut. The glamour of the product is the sales motivation.

That said I do love the track saw for what I feel it is great at. Would I have invested the money again??? Maybe I would have just bought the saw and made my own bench and bought a good solid cabinet saw. I like accurate wood work where in the end I don't have to fudge things to be square or straight. It is wood and of course there are inaccuracies.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Hello,

I'm looking at purchasing what many consider the central piece of equipment for any woodworker - a table saw.  However, I would much prefer purchase a Festool plunge cut saw.  Some people argue that with a plunge cut saw, you don't need a table saw.

Already having a miter saw, do you believe a plunge cut saw could fulfill all my table saw needs?

If I was to purchase a plunge cut saw, will I still need to invest in a (perhaps "cheaper") table saw for some cuts that the plunge cut saw and the miter saw just can't cover.

Any comment, suggestion, idea on this would be greatly appreciated.

Danny

Danny, the question of replacing a table saw with a Festool TS55 or TS75 is frequently discussed here on The FOG.

As others have said, it all depends on the tasks you need to preform with a saw and how much time you can afford performing those tasks.

My own experience has been that Festool TS55 are far more effective replacing conventional table saws when breaking down sheet material into precision glue-ready parts. For working with solid lumber, I use a table or sliding table saw. If I need to cut narrow strips from sheet material, and the sheet is small enough I can safely handle it by myself, I used to do that with a small table saw. Then Festool started selling the parallel guides with extensions and I reserved my small table saw for solid lumber.

Back in 2006 I had been without a large table saw with power feed, that I had used for breaking down sheet material for 36 years, for almost 10 years. I did still own a decent miter saw and the small Inca table saw.  That day I bought my first TS55 I had gone to the dealership of a friend intending to buy a large sliding table saw, although I knew I did not have the space. My plan was to buy the large saw to force my decision to  buy or rent a decent-size shop. Then my trusted dealer handed me a TS55 attached to a CT33 to run on a guide rail. The quality of the cuts was glue-ready and the CT33 collected most of the dust. All the space I needed as enough to walk around a stack of sheets. That allowed me space to assemble cases without moving the large saw. I kept the Inca for the solid lumber parts of cabinets and the miter saw for cross cuts of the solid lumber.

The money I saved on rent of a shop between early 2006 and 2010 was more than enough to be the down payment on my current shop building of 20,000 square feet, I own a CNC pressure beam saw, a large CNC Felder sliding table saw, a Stop  Saw and I still use a TS55 on rails for parts I can produce more efficiently this way.

My work flow is top quality custom cabinets, so I need to use my cabinet makers efficiently. We all love using Festools. We really get satisfaction being at one with the material. But the reality is that to retain our quality and still be competitive, we must use the CNC equipment as much as possible when doing so makes sense. The sheet plywood parts of cabinet cases can be made as precisely with a beam saw as with a Festool on a guide rail, so long as all the corners are right angles. The cut quality is glue-ready as is the case with the Festool. The Felder slider certainly can make odd angles, bevels and miters. But when starting with a full sheet, in reality it takes two cabinet makers working as a well-rehearsed team to handle the sheet on the saw.

My experience is that one cabinet maker using a large protractor and guide rails can produce identical odd angle parts on a cutting table in less than twice the time as on the slider saw. So our slider saw can do what it does best, cutting solid hardwood. The TS55, with a CT22 and a generous selection of long rails and clamps costs about USA$2,500 and uses less than 2,000 watts max. My Felder Kappa 550 e-motion cost over USA$70,000 and in addition to its 15hp saw motor and 2hp scoring motor needs over 10hp of dust extraction. So you can see why I use it to do what it does best. Besides, all of us get a lick out of making precise sheet parts with the guide rails and TS55.

Oh yes, the CNC beam saw requires a dedicated 25' square hunk of floor space. Because we often must start out with solid lumber 14' long, the slider saw needs a dedicated 20' x 30' hunk of floor space. Our largest cutting table is only 4' x 18' and it can be rolled out of the way. Moving the big saws requires a team of machine riggers, fork lifts and electricians.

 

[Acrobat]

Seems to me it really depends on what you doing. i.e. do you cut large thick timber alot or cut and assemble ply or similar? If large thicker pieces which require ripping and cutting, then a table saw and mitre saw/bandsaw is a must. If you're just trimming large sheets down regularly then the ts55/75 saw and track would suffice. It would appear to me that the ts55/75 does not fully remove the need for a table saw, since festool themselves are promoting their own CMS table saw setup, albeit on a smaller scale, and plenty of people are keen on this setup, so it says to me it fills that gap or tries to. I guess what I am saying is for me, with both a small table saw and ts55 but not having the MFT table, I find I haven't yet removed my table saw as there are plenty of jobs I do that I find easier with one or the other and as yet am still keeping it. Maybe when I get the MFT it could sway me to get rid of the table saw but not yet.. Purchase the ts55/75 with the 30 right of return and see if it can make that much of a difference to your working habits, that way no harm done if you decide to go with a table saw instead.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

My vote is 'No', but that doesn't mean that fits everyone's situation, so you have to take our opinions and your ideas and make an edumacated guess.  Good luck!

 

[JimB1]

I'm going to say maybe.

If you have a bandsaw and a plunge saw I think you can do pretty much anything but probably not as easily repeatable as with a tablesaw. If you are looking to rip 20 glue line ready 6' lengths 2" wide you might be able to do it with a plunge saw or a bandsaw (with some sanding or planing) but a tablesaw will get you there quicker with less setup.

Of course in reality all power tools are un-neccessary and there are tons of excellent hand made pieces out there to prove the point.

It depends on what you consider a reasonable trade off and what sort of work you are doing.

-Jim

 

[BMH]

No, Festool recognize this and offers the CMS with a TS 55 insert in Europe. The TS 55 and a router, covers 99% of my needs, but for that 1%, the table saw is very handy. I would prefer a bandsaw but lack the space.

 

[James Watriss]

Of course not. It has been demonstrably proven that accurate cutting of straight lines simply wasn't done before machine tools came along. None of the work was accurate, clean, or of lasting quality.

Pfeh.

Can it replace a table saw? Is that the right question?

How about, 'Can I develop alternate techniques that will let you do (X) with ease?'

The answer's yes. Evolve your shop equipment and your work habits and techniques side-by-side.

Thought and effort are required, but yes, table saws aren't the be-all and end all.

That said, I'm still keeping mine.

 

[NoBreyner]

I'm still attached to my tablesaw.  I've divided up the work according to which seems the easiest to me.

My table saw is a Ryobi model with a floor stand and expandable wings.  It's not as good as my TS55 obviously, but there are some jobs that I will do on one over the other every time.  I use my Tablesaw for cutting thin strips and cutting down 2'x4' sheets of plywood to oversize then use the TS55 to cut to finish size with clean edges.  I have an oversized crosscut sled with stop for the tablesaw so I use it for half of my crosscuts, the other half is when I have the TS55 out or if the car is in the garage.  I'm currently trying to do most of my cuts with the TS for dust control.  The only crosscut I will always use the TS55 is for crosscutting long lengths of lumber.  I can't allow bowing even when sitting on a crosscut sled, or the fact that I have half of a two-car garage and it's going to run close to the car or the wall or both.  I can solve that by moving the saw over or moving the car, but I'll just put it on the MFT/3 and won't have to bother.  Then there's the capacity of the TS55 vs. the Tablesaw where I can get another 1"+ cutting capacity, then there's the jigs I've already made that just make repetitive cuts like tapers and 45 degree cuts pathetically simple. 

In the end I'd say I use both equally.

 

[GhostFist]

In my humble opinion, no. There are numerous things that a table saw is faster and safer at doing.

 

[mouppe]

Simply put, it can't replace a table saw.

But can you get by without a table saw if you only have a plunge saw? Yes- I do- but sometimes I have to go to a friend's to use his bandsaw.

Hard to answer the question without knowing more about your particular needs.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

This question is one of the most frequently asked over the years.  It used to be answered with great rancor and something close to name calling.  I'm really pleased to see the answers seem to have matured a lot. 
We seem pretty close to consensus on a couple of points:
1. It depends on what you are doing
2. If you have to, you can probably do just about anything a table saw does with a TS, but the table saw is faster, smarter, easier some of the time.

I configured my table saw to handle sheet goods.  Its footprint would be much smaller if I had it to do over.  I like your idea about getting a TS and a smaller table saw.  It got me thinking about swapping out my Unisaw with a wide table for a good contractor or hybrid saw with 1/3 the footprint.  Sure could use the space.

 

[Jmaichel]

No! I had this same question about 8 months ago and I acted on it. I bought a TS 55 and MFT. It was about a 85% solution but that other 15% really made me unhappy as a woodworker. The TS55 has limitations when it comes to ripping hardwoods, even with the dedicated rip blade. Repeated cuts for building furniture are not done very easily and I have heard that the parallel guides are just okay. I think it can work if your fully vested in Festool products, including routers and the domino or another joining system. I don't think you have to have a cabinet saw either, a contractor style saw and bandsaw would be probably serve you very well. If you are dead set on going with Festool, than I would recommend the TS75 seems like a much more capable saw if you really want to try and replace a table saw.

James