Can the TS75 and TS55R be used on the same rail?

[Runhard]

I have a TS75 and multiple guide rails and I am thinking about getting the TS55R also. Would I be able to use both saws on all the guide rails without any issues with the clear splinter guard? Of course I would not be using both saws on the same rail  at the same time [laughing]

Daniel

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Daniel,

Check out the supplemental manual, page 12 I think. It talks about how to calibrate a saw to a rail. That would allow you to share the two saws with the same rail(s).

http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/TS_55_EQ_US.pdf

Shane

 

[Runhard]

That seems easy enough.

Thanks,

Daniel

 

[ccarrolladams]

Between the 8 TS55 and 2 TS75 belonging to me, the employee master cabinet makers of my firm own 5 other TS55 and 4 TS55,

All of those are adjusted to my in-house standard fit to rails so that any of those saws will work accurately with any of the rails belong to me or to my employees. At the same time the fit to rail is adjusted, so is the toe-in perfected.

Trusted pals of mine in Europe and the UK also own TS55R. Over they years I have taught them my method of standardizing a batch of TSxx saws. Unfortunately because I am so busy here in California I have not had the chance to make an extended visit to Europe since the TS55R became available there.

I trust my pals when they tell me there is enough adjustment available on the TS55R they can be adjusted to conform to their standard.

I currently have 2 TS55R pre-ordered, so by 2 May I will be sure adjusting them to my standard is practical.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I have a TS75 and multiple guide rails and I am thinking about getting the TS55R also. Would I be able to use both saws on all the guide rails without any issues with the clear splinter guard? Of course I would not be using both saws on the same rail  at the same time [laughing]

Daniel

Yes, your saws can be matched to use the same guide rails. There is one caveat to this regarding the TS55R. Previous saws did not limit how far out of factory calibration you could adjust them (within reason). The TS55R limits the adjustment to be no more than 0.030" from factory settings. This prevents you from setting the blade distance too close or too far from the aluminum edge of the guide rail.

So if your TS75 is outside the boundaries of factory calibration, you will have to reset your TS75 back to factory calibration to match the position of the TS55R. However, if your TS75 has never been adjusted, you will probably find that no adjustments would be necessary.

 

[Runhard]

I have a TS75 and multiple guide rails and I am thinking about getting the TS55R also. Would I be able to use both saws on all the guide rails without any issues with the clear splinter guard? Of course I would not be using both saws on the same rail  at the same time [laughing]

Daniel

Yes, your saws can be matched to use the same guide rails. There is one caveat to this regarding the TS55R. Previous saws did not limit how far out of factory calibration you could adjust them (within reason). The TS55R limits the adjustment to be no more than 0.030" from factory settings. This prevents you from setting the blade distance too close or too far from the aluminum edge of the guide rail.

So if your TS75 is outside the boundaries of factory calibration, you will have to reset your TS75 back to factory calibration to match the position of the TS55R. However, if your TS75 has never been adjusted, you will probably find that no adjustments would be necessary.

I have never adjusted anything on my TS75.

Thanks for the information Rick,

Daniel

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Matching up the TS55 to the TS75 sounds great, and yes, it is possible.  I've wasted 4 full days trying, with no luck.  You are aiming for a 0.002 overlap between those saws.  Very difficult to match them both.

Now if the TS55R has solved this problem, then great!  I'll sell my much loved 55 and buy one as soon as they come out.  Beats buying either a duplicate set of rails or constantly replacing splinterguards on the rails.

 

[duburban]

why did this not work?

 

[Brice Burrell]

One thing to keep in mind is that the TS75 doesn't have all the same sized kerf blades.  So if you match TS75 it will only work for blades with the same size kerf.

 

[duburban]

throwing a wrench in my master plan...

why hasn't festool standardized ts75 blades like they did for the ts55? what about the system?  ???

 

[Rick Christopherson]

One thing to keep in mind is that the TS75 doesn't have all the same sized kerf blades.  So if you match TS75 it will only work for blades with the same size kerf.

This issue gets a little overblown for what it really means. First off, it isn't a matter of what the blade's kerf is. It is the difference (actually 1/2 the difference) between the kerf size and the blade plate thickness. If the plate thickness changes with kerf, then it is completely a non-issue. Unfortunately, the plate thickness is not listed for the kerf sizes, so we don't know.

The maximum difference in kerf thickness for wood cutting blades on the TS75 is only 0.2mm. If they all have the same plate thickness, this would result in a tooth offset of only 0.1mm, which to put this into perspective for most of us is only 0.004". If the blade is cutting only 0.004" away from the splinter guard, you're not going to see any tearout in the cut. Moreover, just vibration and wobble is going to pretty much guaranty that any blade will be cutting this far away from the splinter guard.

As for setting a TS55 and TS75 for use on the same rail, the best solution would be for setting the TS75 slightly farther away than the TS55. That is because the TS75 is not used as much for fine cutting on splinter-prone materials like the TS55 is. It doesn't rely on the splinter guard as much as the TS55 does.

But to repeat what I said above, it is all a moot point if the blade plate changes thickness too.

 

[duburban]

Thats a great point about the TS75 and usage, that setup would suit my needs well. Thanks for the data Rick.

 

[Corwin]

... If the blade is cutting only 0.004" away from the splinter guard, you're not going to see any tearout in the cut. Moreover, just vibration and wobble is going to pretty much guaranty that any blade will be cutting this far away from the splinter guard.

As for setting a TS55 and TS75 for use on the same rail, the best solution would be for setting the TS75 slightly farther away than the TS55. That is because the TS75 is not used as much for fine cutting on splinter-prone materials like the TS55 is. It doesn't rely on the splinter guard as much as the TS55 does.

In addition, everyone already experiences using their rails with a small distance between the blade and splinter guard on a regular basis.  Since these track saws are set with a slight toe-in to the blade, the blade cuts a little closer to the rail during a deep plunge than it does during a shallower one.  This variation is something less than half the amount of toe-in, but still enough to notice evidence of the splinter guard getting cut more the first time you plunge deeper than you have cut before.  Thus, any shallower cuts that follow will have a small gap between blade and splinter guard.  If this were an issue, you would certainly have noticed and complained about it much earlier.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Toe-In is correctly set with the blade plunged all the way. Then the splinter guard is cut also with the blade plunged all the way.

Of course when it is your saw and you are not on my payroll you are welcome to set your toe-in and cut your splinter guards as you want.

All of the TS55 using in my shop are set the same way. The TS75 are set with the Panther blade which is the widest kerf of current TS75 blades. But in our shop hardly ever are TS75 used on delicate veneer plywood. Friends I know and trust in Europe and Australia tell me there is enough adjustment in the TS55R to match TS55. My shop standard is identical to the Festool factory standard adjustment of TS55, so I anticipate in a couple of weeks when the TS55Rs I have pre-ordered arrive, they will out of the Systainer match all my TS55. Therefore they will also match my TS75.

 

[Corwin]

Toe-In is correctly set with the blade plunged all the way. Then the splinter guard is cut also with the blade plunged all the way.

Of course when it is your saw and you are not on my payroll you are welcome to set your toe-in and cut your splinter guards as you want.

Of course the toe-in is set with the blade plunged all the way.  However, according to Rick's supplemental manual, the splinter guard is to be cut initially at a shallow depth setting.  And I suspect that most all users have done just that.  

Yet no matter how you go about this, or who you employ, the fact remains that once your blade has cut the splinter guard at a deep setting, a shallower will cut slight away from the splinter guard.  I only mentioned this to add to Rick's comment:

If the blade is cutting only 0.004" away from the splinter guard, you're not going to see any tearout in the cut. Moreover, just vibration and wobble is going to pretty much guaranty that any blade will be cutting this far away from the splinter guard.

And because of Kodi's post where he described having trouble:

Matching up the TS55 to the TS75 sounds great, and yes, it is possible.  I've wasted 4 full days trying, with no luck.  You are aiming for a 0.002 overlap between those saws.  Very difficult to match them both.

Now if the TS55R has solved this problem, then great!  I'll sell my much loved 55 and buy one as soon as they come out.  Beats buying either a duplicate set of rails or constantly replacing splinterguards on the rails.

Bottom line here is that unless you always cut at the same depth setting, you have probably already experienced cutting with the blade a couple of thousandths away from the splinter guard.  So, not to worry if you set your TS75 a couple thou further away than your TS55.

 

[ccarrolladams]

All I can say is my shop makes a whole lot of custom cabinets sold for top prices. Pay attention to my suggestions or not, that is out of my hands.

When you need to produce parts from sheet material identical to 0.01mm you need CNC pressure beam saws, not guide rails and track saws.

The question was can TS75 and TS55R use the same guide rail. I believe we all say that is possible so long as expectations are reasonable.

My shop uses the TS55 to cut odd miters and bevels which cannot be made on the CNC beam saws. We could do them using our large sliding table saw, which would tie up that tool. Our experience is that we can make the odd miters and bevels as effectively the way we do so using the long rails and TS55s and at almost the same pace as the slider saw. Of course the overhead with the slider is higher than the guide rails, so the cost per finished part is about the same. We held off buying another slider saw largely because all of us enjoy using guide rails and the TS55.

 

[duburban]

so carroll, i've seen you mention your running many saws and tracks together. how are you calibrating the ts75 saws to the track? are you leaving that .01 extra between the blade and strip? i'm wondering if i should be adding 1 business card between the blade and saw on the front and 2 on the back for calibration.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Nearly all classic CNC woodworking saws and routers are repeatable to 0.01mm mostly because they use much of the same servos and measuring techniques as metal working CNC machines.

The difficulty in woodworking is that those materials change shape far more so that tool steel. So knowing that the machine will repeat day after day does not always ensure that after being processed the wood parts will be that accurate.

Our approach is to make use of the machines ability to make accurate parts quickly. We therefore use the CNC machines at the last possible moment prior to assembly. This eliminates a lot of hand fixes. In assembling cabinet cases we are making glue-quality cuts. We assemble right angle pieces using power-driven assembly machines to ensure right angles are true. This would be vastly overkill in the DIY world.

The beautiful thing is with a little care and the use of tips freely shared on The FOG a reasonably proficient DIY can make top quality cabinet cases using Festools, an accurate large square and the same measuring instrument all the time.

 

[Corwin]

Why are we discussing CNC beam saws in this thread?  Or any thread having to do with Festools?  Sure, they may be interesting, but aren't they a topic that is best discussed in another section of this board, instead of being injected into so many posts here? 

This thread has nothing to do with cutting panels to such close tolerances, but rather how to set two saws properly to cut along the same guide rail(s). 

 

[Runhard]

So, I have a TS75 and have not made any adjustments to it and use the blade that came with it. I was thinking about getting the new TS55R and I was just wanting to know if I could use all my rails with both saws without any issues. I have 2 1080 rails, so I could dedicate one for each TS. I have a 3000 rail that has not been used yet, I will wait to use it until I decide on the TS55R. I could use my 1900 rail only with my TS75 and my 1400/LR32 rail only with the TS55R.

It would be nice if I did not have to think about any of this and just use any saw with any rail.  I haven't even considered different blades on the TS75 yet, that will be another issue. Maybe I should just be content with the TS75.

Daniel