Carvex 420 first impressions

[RC]

I guess one thing that makes me question the empirical nature of the testing is that in the Festool vs Piece of Pine video, I spotted this under the work surface, which struck me as a technological oddity amidst a team showing competence with infrared grade heat measuring technology...

I don't even plug office equipment into junk like that.

[attachimg=#]

Well, that's a quite standard Central-European extension lead - I use them everywhere else but in wet spaces since those white plastic ones are not IP44 protected. They do have integrated child protectors in them so the holes are blocked when not in use. Sure, for the lawn mower I have a more robust rubberized extension lead and some Chinese 25m long rolled extension cords for renovation use when electricity has to be cut in a room and brought in from elsewhere but in a normal workshop where there is neither water nor a need for extended lengths I use those normal extension leads.

I think here we are getting a bit too over-analytical...  [blink]

 

[jmbfestool]

Like Ken said. 

I dont think this Thread should be closed if you going to close it you should delete it.

because people will make up there own mind and so far no videos of proof that the carvex can do it.  So people will leave this page thinking it might not be up to the job. 

Only thing going on at the moment is people discrediting the people doing the tests...

I am hoping to get the Carvex 420 and I will DEFIANTLY be doing some tests and videos my self and post on this topic.

JMB

 

[woodguy7]

JMB, i look forward to your test.  As for the full test results from the OP, where are they,,,,,

 

[cliffp]

As for the full test results from the OP, where are they,,,,,

Maybe the OP tried doing the tests hoping to show the Carvex 420 performing badly but given all the suggestions made by other contributors as to the way the tests should be conducted (which were obviously aimed at making the tests more valid), couldn't get it to perform badly? If that were the case and if their only motive was to damage Festool's reputation (and I am not suggesting it was their motive), they probably wouldn't bother showing the second test.

 

[Rembo72]

BTW, Why the obsessive interest in jigsaws? Instead of routers, TS, etc?

Their is no obsessive interest, #1 tool category for both users and manufacturers is the plunge saw. This was tested few months ago.

Finally, Can you refute any of what Shane has said regarding this dealer and his previous activities on this forum? It's either true or it's not, it's not open to interpretation.

I believe much of what Shane is saying is true, but don't know all the details.

Maybe the OP tried doing the tests hoping to show the Carvex 420 performing badly but given all the suggestions made by other contributors as to the way the tests should be conducted (which were obviously aimed at making the tests more valid), couldn't get it to perform badly? If that were the case and if their only motive was to damage Festool's reputation (and I am not suggesting it was their motive), they probably wouldn't bother showing the second test.

Test results will be published in coming days, you have to accept that it takes some time to write the review and make te movie a comprehensive summary.

 

[Rembo72]

it is obvious that the blade guides are too tight, why bend a dozen of blades and insist, just make 1/2 turn instead 1/3...

Blades guides where definitely not too tight, they where tighter on the PS 300 Trion and the Protool JSP with no issues. They where adjusted to manufacturers instructions and after adjusting the as instructed they was plenty of space to move around. The drive shaft however is not as tight as you would expect it to be so the whole pack, shaft, guides, blades has a lot of space to bounce around between the shaft / guides.

You too can make sparks with any jig saw blade. Just run a screw directly through the path of your cut and then hide it from yourself by clamping the square, paying special attention to cover the screw so it won't be visible. Then push like you mean it when cutting. I was raised on a farm so I'm pretty sure I know bull crap when I see it.

If you want to fool a test yes than you can probably do that but the effect would probably not be as what we have seen but you blade would have been completely worn out and not bended or broken. Making this statement says much about how you think and does not say anything about what we have done in the test.

Well, a couple of things on that. For a review video to so meticulously refer to the festool manual and using the "just like festool said" card, I just found it a little odd to see an piece of electrical equipment directly under the work surface that was so unqualified to be there in any shape or form. How do I know you didnt plug your tool and extractor combo into that junk, and if you did, could there be any correlation between poor current and heat at the tool? Perhaps.

Mafell is taking more power and was connected through the same cords as the other machines. Mafell was showing no issues and was the tested machine with highest power requirements so that one should have been the one causing issues.  Theoratically you might be right, practically what you say does not make sence and I think you know that yourself.

Also, I am pretty sure that Festool didnt recommend that you run their tool on another brand extractor. Why on earth would your facilitating dealer not have provided you with a ct unit, given the systemic engineering of festool gear?

It appears that you used a different brand extractor on the tool. Is this the case? If so, why?

No specific reason, there was only one shopvac available, not branded like any of the 5 machines. I believe it does not make a difference at all to this test. Do you? Please explain.

 

[woodguy7]

I don't think the vac would have any relevance to the test either.  But I do hope the new reviews shows a mixture of scenarios not just hogging through a ridiculous lump of wood !

 

[Jaybolishes]

Obviously by all the tests the ONLY thing anyone ever uses a jigsaw for is cutting huge beams.  There's no other use at all, these tests show the Mafell is way better.  I mean who the heck uses a jigsaw for anything else, the only important task a jigsaw is for is cutting thick beams.

On a serious note, using  a jigsaw to cut thick beams is like using a Ferrari for hauling gravel.  Then saying after the car overheats, wow, these ferraris sure are junk.   Give me some more tests, not just this ridiculous use that isn't even a common application.  Btw, Mafell makes amazing timber framing tools, I'm pretty sure festool is fine with staying out of that market. I don't see many timber framers on the fog lol

 

[neeleman]

To set the record straight, is there anyone with a Carvex 420 who can replicate the test on their own and post their results here, please? Someone not associated with a Mafell dealer or Festool.

Since a few weeks I have a Carvex PS 420.
Before that I had a PS 300 and a PS 400. The PS 400 was sent back twice to Festool because of the problems we've all read about.
So two weeks ago when I went to pick-up the PS 400 there was a T-Loc systainer waiting for me while the PS 400 was brought in a Classic systainer.
So Festool did gave me a new PS 420 as an exchange!!!!!!!!!!! Together with 2 new blades, from which one of them is the new S75/4 FSG Carvex (499476).
I was very surprised but also very curious how this model would perform.

Of course I have also read all the messages about the jigsaw testing with GereedschapPro in Holland.

But I CANNOT CONFIRM, I repeat CANNOT CONFIRM, the bending, sparkling and very hot blades AT ALL.

I used a various selection of blades from Bosch and Festool (Trion and Carvex models).
I used it for sawing a timber beam 2"x6" in 2 directions with a longest blade of 145 mm.
Therefore I used pendulum setting 3 and the Automatic or 5-speed setting.
I also did some plywood in the middle and on the edges without a problem.

My other experiences:
1. The blade guide is nearly the same as on the PS 300.
2. Fiddling with the Allen key is not the easiest part but to my experiences it's not an art. To remove the baseplate is a pity and could be better. The Allen key should be of square shape and not the standard rectangular. The Allen bolt should be of high quality otherwise it will wear out soon.
3. Indeed it's a pity that they did not design a storage for the Allen key in the body or baseplate. I'am thinking of drilling a hole somewhere for the storage of the Allen key.
4. And the light has 3 settings: off, strobe or permanent on.
5. The changing of blades goes better then with the PS 400 and the little black knob on the slider has not come off once.

I have no possibilities to make a video and posting pictures is not necessary because of the good results I had.

I'am a satisfied customer of all my Festools and since two weeks also the Carvex PS 420.

 

[nickao]

I have no interest in this thread as I never believe any review, not even posts here. I  try the tool myself. But as far as jigsaw testing thick beams is the gold standard of testing and EXACTLY how I would test and how I would want to see the jigs tested.. If the jig saw can do that it can do anything. Heck, a 50.00 Home Depot special can cut 3/4" ply perfectly, but the blade deflects using a 2" x 4". That simply is the difference between a good and bad jig in my opinion, lack of blade deflection on thick cuts that is.

As far as I know cutting thick beams IS the standard for jigsaw testing. When I first saw the Trion at a show, yep the Festool reps were cutting thick beams. Check the Trion original literature, yep shows cutting thick beams. And they state the lack of blade deflection in thick cuts as it's MAIN selling point. This type test demonstrates the power and the blade deflection and it has always been the standard test for a jig saw for me.

I used to make tons of trellis on site. Tell me, without a jig saw how was I suppose to cut the scroll ends on the 4" x 6" pieces, drag a band saw to the site?. A jig is the defacto tool for that operation! Cutting thick beams IS what a great jig saw is about and a great test.

As far as these testers who knows. I never saw a test that was not biased in one way or another and me having almost 4000 Festool posts am automatically biased toward Festool, as these guys are to Mafell, so what. Any person here saying the testing is biased is biased themselves, this is a Festool forum after all! Don't any of us FOG members under our breath hope the Festool wins? If you are a big poster here and can not admit that get real, we are all Festool biased and who says it's and bad thing. And just because one is biased toward one tool brand(we all are)  does not change the facts of a test. We can interpret the results and justify tests any way we like to get the answers we want to personally hear, these tests are meaningless to most.

Try the darn tool for yourself, you will either like it or hate it!

 

[hockey_magnet]

Test results will be published in coming days, you have to accept that it takes some time to write the review and make te movie a comprehensive summary.

Very true , so then why did you immediately publish only the rather spectacular appearing failure of the Carvex and nothing else? Why not wait and publish the test in its entirety instead of floating this around for a week knowing full well how inflammatory it would be?

 

[Jaybolishes]

If you're telling me that the beam test is the end all be all, I have to disagree.  I'm glad you do a lot of trellises and the videos helped you, but it's not at all how I grade a jigsaws performance.  

 

[nickao]

There are at least 20 jigs on the market that are fantastic saws and can do anything each of the other jigs can do, except for cutting thick wood without deflection. I have not purchased a jig in five years that was not fantastic in  1" thick wood or less. And I specifically said these videos were for the birds, I test the tools myself. We all have our opinions, but in ten jig saw reviews 8 of them, if not all 10 of them, will address the thick cutting verse power and blade deflection. It's simply how the jigs are tested by manufactures and hobbyists for years

How should a jig be tested to show differences between the tools when the new 50.00 jig saw perform like 350.00 saws from 10 years ago? For the thinner woods a Harbor Freight throw away can get the same EXACT results as with a Bosch(its all in the blades). The HF scrolls around fine and has plenty of power and makes perfect cuts, up to 3/4" that is.

With today's tools they are all so good that we must stress them to even find the differences. If all one is doing is cutting 3/4" or 1" hardwood truly, IMO, a Festool or Mafell is not required. A  2nd tier cheaper Bosch, Porter Cable or even Black and Decker are all good saws and will cut thinner woods with a good blade perfectly, just as well as any 500.00 jig saw. Many of these cheaper jigs have lights and the toys too. Longevity for a hobbyist will be fine with these tools too. It's like the many guys here that use the Ryobi cordless drills. They are fine for most and the only time  a difference would be seen is during stress testing them like is done with thick woods for Jig saws. How many of us sit around with a 2" Forstner bit and drill through a 2x4 50 times at one crack, yet its how they test the cordless drills.

My point is the Newer jig saws are all so good that we have to go to these thicker wood tests to even see a difference. And long before all the jig saws were this good they (the manufacturers and heavy hobbyists) were using thicker woods for testing. It's just a torture test of power and blade deflection nothing more, if that is not important to someone then maybe a less expensive saw can make them happy.

Out of all the jig saws I have ever used my Bosch is the still the best of the bunch, maybe the 420 will change my mind, maybe not.

 

[Jaybolishes]

I hear ya man.  Just seems fishy this was the only test  conducted and a test that could be rigged to show the festool failing when there was high scrutiny about the previous jigsaws festool came out with.  Like many have  said we need more testing by others to even confirm if their tests were rigged or not.  I want a festool jigsaw that incorporates with my festool equipment I already have.  I think people on the fog want to see if the 420 is improved from the others they had made, this test may be valid, but as a person on this forum who likes the festool interchangeability with cords and hoses, this test is not very important to me when done by a seemingly biased reviewer. Hey maybe they are not biased but from what I read it sure appears that way.

 

[Alan m]

i  dont agree with all the calls for not using the big timbers. festool (and probably others) show and state that their saw can cut material like that. festool even makes really long blades(longer than the ones being use) . i havent use my trion for jobs like this but if i had to i would expect my trion to perform as designed.

something (more than one) things dont add up here. there is a lot of critisising the tests.the tests are not perfect but no test ever is.
the vac issue is rubbish, that shouldnt matter.
the 4 way cord  might make a difference but all the saws were pluged into it so any problems should be the same for each saw.

i dont like the rian issue  but the fact the rest of the testers are still here shows a lot.
i dont seee the guides being too tight . the tester showed the guides adjusted right. the blade fitted in between the guides. he didnt have to force it in.
you have to trust that every test is done honestly. im not sure why peopledont trust the tester from the out set. any test of anyu machine could use hidden methods to distort any result. putting a screw in the cut  would  skew the results but can we really draw conclusions like that. .

i look forard to a similr test by a "trusted tester"
i too would like to see other "normal" everyday cuts being shown too

 

[Alan m]

i have to agree with dovetail

 

[Eco Options Hardwood]

I wouldn't be afraid to buy any of Festool's  products. Their customer service is outstanding and with Festool's 30-Day Money Back Guarantee " Buy with confidence. If you are not completely satisfied, return your tool to the selling dealer within 30 days ......"

Exactly! Maffell has no such return policy. Festool has nothing to hide as they allow for the 30day returns.
One of the reasons my garage is stacked with Festool!

Obviously the comparison is SHENANIGINS! If Maffell wants to chomp away at festools success, why not agree to A 30 day money back return policy as well?

I am not looking for a new jig but if I was, 420 would be at the top of my list!
30 day $ back, available parts and blades AND system integration being my main reasons. Oh yeah and then there's the fact that Festool fixes any problems, most of the time for free.

 

[derrills]

Saw (pun) something in the latest view. This is a screenshot from 2:14 in the video showing the offcut from the first cut.

[attachimg=#]

You can see what appears to be something in the center of the timber.

[attachimg=#]

I don't know what it is, but it looks suspicious. And the Carvex changes sound, jumps, and starts sparking right at that point.

 

[Rembo72]

@Derrils

I don't know what it is, but it looks suspicious. And the Carvex changes sound, jumps, and starts sparking right at that point.

Having looked so carefully to find something you could make a comment on you should have seen that what you think to see there is in the bottom of the wood so the blade did not even go through it.....

Ow boy..... guys do you also think that Pino is responsible for your national debt and that it was actually Dolly Parton killed J.F. Kennedy .... oh yeah Elvis is still alive.... don't tell anybody else..

 

[green fever]

Okay guys i have just returned from the w12 show in Birmingham UK , i went over to the maffell stand and had a chat with a guy who was showing the maffell jigsaw  doing the usual demo so i asked several questions regarding it's capabilities etc and costs of the machine and accessories & blades etc, now this guy kept putting the maffell branded blade back in the saw even though he had other make blades which he said would all work fine as long as you used the correct blade for the material and type of cut , i asked him to cut right up to the edge of the worktop to check for blade deflection he did not instead he just kept cutting into the top, this guy mentioned how good the saw was and made references to other makes with blade guides that got hot and eventually wore the blades out ,  the worktop he cut was around 40mm it looked okay , when i asked about why no light and no cordless version and another few mechanical questions he said well here is the man that designed it i thought great he will come over to answer my questions twelve minutes later i got fed up and left , not before i found the costs of the saw and the optional angle base , the blades are ten pounds each!, now i am not saying the saw was bad just that i would expect the person who designed it would show more of an interest to a possible buyer at a large trade show !! it's a shame jmb was not there as it would have been good to get he's viewpoint on that jigsaw, and give an unbiased opinion  as i am sure he would call it as he would see it ,   green.