Carvex 420 first impressions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rian said:
@Shane Holland : Didn't you just post something? Something about "everybody should dislike the youtube video's & write remarks beneath it"
It was posted somewhere between 10:30 and 12:59 on October 08…. But it suddenly disappeared.. Weird..

I opted to remove my post.

Here is what my post said:

I would like to remind all of you with a YouTube account that YouTube offers the opportunity to "like" or "dislike" a video. Please mark the video accordingly based on your own opinions.

So, no, I didn't tell everyone to dislike it. The forum members have the right to their own opinions.

You know nothing about this forum or its members. You are only a spammer and here on behalf of Sander, a banned forum member.

I have posted several videos of the Carvex cutting 4" thick material without issues. Soon, our friends in the UK will post their results and this will end. I have no concerns about what the results will be: without bent blades.
 
@Rian

First - Let me "thank you" for your participation here.  I know that as both a member and a moderator your input into this forum has left me virtually speechless.

Second - I will openly remind you that you are a guest here.  Admission is revokable.  If you at any time you would like assistance in deleting your account, please feel free to let me know and as a moderator I will be glad to assist you.

Third - Members have the ability to edit their posts.  It is that button that says modify.

Peter - Moderator
 
MODERATE NOTE: THESE TESTS WERE SPONSORED BY AND ADMINISTERED BY A MAFELL DEALER IN THE NETHERLANDS

Hi everybody,

The English version is attached below.

as is the result-sheet as well.
(that one is still in Dutch, but I think you all will manage)

Have fun!

Aha, it's a banned link!
wel...if you whant to see what all the fuss was about.

[ edited by Shane Holland - links removed - attachments added ]
 
Yes, they have also banned the link on the first post  [eek] [eek] 

John.....
 
Links to that website are not allowed, because it's owned and operated by a banned forum member. However, the PDF versions of the review documents have been added to Rian's post.
 
@Reika

What I'd like to know is which jigsaw would each of the testers choose today and why? And a realistic version of which one would be best for you all considered including cost - not just that Mafell because its the most expensive one and did well in these tests.  

I used to have a Carvex PS 400, It not give me too much joy, after we did the test with circular saws I tested a Mafell P1cc and I instantly liked it, why? because it did what I wanted without any blade deflection. That was primarily the reason why i bought it, together with the fact that it's very well built and engineered to high quality standards. Additional to this there the option to use the CUnex blades that give super straigh cuts. Yes they are expensive but again quality has it's price.

I'm a tool addict and price to me is less important than quality and performance. The price is significantly higher than a Carvex when you do not include the syatainer with accesories. If you include that with the Carvex the price almost equals that of the Mafell, Mafell approximately 615 euros (netherlands) including the tilting base and the Carvex includes accessories is aproximately 600 euro. Not much difference, tha Mafell offers all the extra's that you need from the accesories systainer standard, only you can cut cmaller circles (up to 20 inch) , you don't have the seperate glider bases. As extra you have a parallel guide that the festool does not have. Pretty much comparable. Only bad thing with the Mafell is that you can not choose to buy it without.

If price did come into play I would probably go for the Festool Trion because of the proven quality of the tool. I must admit, not knowing what I know today probably the Carvex 420 would be an appealing option given the features of the machine and the fact it perfectly blends in with my other tools. Protool is as good as the Trion but my personal preference would be the green over the orange.

I would not consider the Bosch or the Makita, the Makita feels lumpy and havy and has come details I don't like (for quality reasons). both of them have a pretty weak base, should you ever want to tilt it it's no good.

So far the Carvex 420 has not convinced me to make the change again to the Carvex. It's definitely better than the old 400 but if yuo want to keep the options open to cut thicker stock it will not meet my personal quality standard.
 
Well thanks Shane, that's very thoughtful.
I didn't even now that was possible, thanks for the help (I'm still new ;-) )
 
Second - I will openly remind you that you are a guest here.  Admission is revokable.  If you at any time you would like assistance in deleting your account, please feel free to let me know and as a moderator I will be glad to assist you.

Peter, well said, thanks for making that statement. I still consider myself a guest although sometimes "we" as testers are bashed a little, I do understand that people are suspicious and apparently whatever we say is explained in a way that's negative.

I hope everybody will remain to be fair and open and discuss on facts rather than on opinions. This is a great forum as Festool is a great brand of innovative and high quality tools and it should and will remain to be so.

Thanks again...
 
Rian before the link was deleted I had a look and found it all associated with a website selling power tools. I think you have only joined this forum to promote this business and are biast towards other tool brands.

It clearly says on the website that you consider Mafell tools to be superior and that you will offer people money to trade in their festool products in return for Mafell products.

I personally think you are just trying to hijack this forum for your own gain.

I do not think any of the video tests I saw were impartial or remotely practical.

Jog on.......
 
@Coen, if you thinks what Sander is doing bad why are you giving signs you do the same?

Haha, Sander Schuiten and his name-changing webshop from Zandvoort...

You start of with haha.... appearantly you as a part time employee from a dealer on the other end of the country knows Sander, what does that say? How do you know him and what have they told you? Have you checked with Sander what his side of the story is?

Ok, let set this straight:

-The guy behind GereedschapPro has some personal problem with Festool

I think it more fair to say that there's an argument between Festool and Sander.

So what do we get: a cabal of him and a few of his buddies do a fake 'test' of three jigsaws; the Mafell, the Trion and the new Carvex.

What make you give me the qualification of Sander's buddy, I'm a customer of many tool shops and where I like a lot of the people in these shop they are not my buddies.

Fake test, why is it fake? Wanna come to my house with your own Carvex 420, I'll get a piece of the wood and we can see what happens. Will you pay for all costs when the blade bends, we get sparks and the blades gets above 200 degrees?

None of us is blind and all of us can see that the blade they use in the 420 is too short. It doesn't even get 1/10 of an inch through the wood.
I don't know if the 420 keeps it's blade a little bit higher or not; perhaps. But it would still be within spec, since the Trion could cut more than spec.
This however does provide them with an easy way to show the Carvex to be 'bad'; that's why they cherry-picked the length of the blade and the thickness of the wood: half an inch less thick and it wouldn't suit their purpose. And let's be honest about that purpose: attracting traffic from those interested in Festool to show them the so called superiority of the Mafell.

Day one the blade was indeed too short, that's why the test was redone with longer blades day 2 with the same results. if you would have read this post completely rather than to shout around you would have known that.

And even if he doesn't get to sell them a Mafell he would already be happy if Festool sells less, since that's his personal obsession.

You seem to know Sander personally as you can think and speak for him, is he your buddy?

And the word 'obsession' also fits the fervor with which all of a sudden a bunch of these freshly created accounts appear on the FOG to in a magic way corroborate the story while hiding details.

Which details are hidden, I guess if FOG can track IP addresses if they want to they could see I already visited FOG as a viewer regularly. I created an account as the topic starter alerted me too it and I responded to false accusations made here.

Now the real kicker comes when you can understand the Dutch voices in the video. Starting at around 0:52 they discuss the following:
Man in background: Maybe the blade is too short
Man holding Carvex: Yes
Third person: It’s as if it’s oscillation is different
Man in background: If it’s too high [cut off by sound of Carvex]

What does that say? Based on this we went over to fesool in waddinxveen to discuss this issue. no hidden speech or whatever, just the raw footage, nothing to hide.

And in the time this topic is open they get what they want: higher page-ranking from Google.

Anyone anywhere can simply see this is a bunch of nonsense: go to your nearest Festool dealer and test the machine. If he doesn't have it in his test corner, call up your local branch of Festool, make an appointment with a representative and he will bring a test machine.

Wanne pick up the glove and do the test yourself?

Conclusion

This so called 'test' or 'comparison' done by GereedschapPro is not independent, not honest, not well-documented and not neutral.

Please explain rather than to accuse us?

It was done with a goal; to attract traffic and to make people not buy a Festool and preferably buy a Mafell.

Probably true, because up front he was convinced of the quality he's selling. If so, what's wrong with that?

Conditions were cherry picked to achieve pre-determined goal, details left out. The conversation in the video makes clear that they know why it fails.

Which details are left out? Again, 2nd day longer blades, we're definitely not stupid.

These colored-glasses 'comparisons' are a curse for those seeking honest information and should be seen as yet another scar on the reputation of this man-with-a-gripe-against-Festool.

All info presented is the testers view on the machines tested, in most cases proven by measurement and movies. Anybody is free to interpret what you see and read.

For full disclosure:
-I am an part-time employee of an official Dutch Festool dealer
-Posting here is part of my hobby, not my work
-I receive no compensation from anyone in any form for posting here although setting the record straight gives a lot of satisfaction!
-At my work I've sold both Trion and Carvex machines. With the Trion I use price, proven technology and solid way of blade changing and with the Carvex I use the extra bases, it's lower weight and stroboscope as main selling points.
-I own a Trion PS300 EBQ, purchased 2009; before becoming an employee at the Festool dealer and before the Carvex was released.

Dear Coen, If setting the record straight gives you a lot of satisfaction, please be rightful in your facts and don't start shouting around if you do not know all of them.

 
I have the Bosch 140, i had the Carvex for a week then stuck it on Ebay [big grin]... I dont use a jigsaw that much but if i did i would probably get the Mafell... Im even thinking of selling the Bosch and going back to the Hilti 850 or waiting till Hilti bring a 22v version out.

john...
 
I have the Bosch 140, i had the Carvex for a week then stuck it on Ebay ... I dont use a jigsaw that much but if i did i would probably get the Mafell... Im even thinking of selling the Bosch and going back to the Hilti 850 or waiting till Hilti bring a 22v version out.

Neth, you probably had the old one the Carvex 400, not the new Carvex 420, it's definitely improved vs that one. It's not a bad machine, only thing we said here is that during 1 specific test we found an pretty significant issue. That triggers a lot of people to tell us we're bad people and utterly biased and wrong. Not many people have asked the question how it's possible that a brand new saw shows this kind of issue when used properly in it's specified range. I agree not something you would typically do with a jigsaw but way within spec of the manufacturers.
 
Rembo72 said:
I have the Bosch 140, i had the Carvex for a week then stuck it on Ebay ... I dont use a jigsaw that much but if i did i would probably get the Mafell... Im even thinking of selling the Bosch and going back to the Hilti 850 or waiting till Hilti bring a 22v version out.

Neth, you probably had the old one the Carvex 400, not the new Carvex 420, it's definitely improved vs that one. It's not a bad machine, only thing we said here is that during 1 specific test we found an pretty significant issue. That triggers a lot of people to tell us we're bad people and utterly biased and wrong. Not many people have asked the question how it's possible that a brand new saw shows this kind of issue when used properly in it's specified range. I agree not something you would typically do with a jigsaw but way within spec of the manufacturers.

Yes i did have the 400, they would of had to improve a lot more than the blade guides for me to consider buying another... To me it was comparable to a B&Q £35 jigsaw...

john...
 
Hi guys can I just ask why in the second test with the longer blades, did the timber thickness increase? 102 x 200

Regards
Leigh
 
Even in the review results, fuzzy math (page 13). How does the Carvex being ranked #4, #2, and #5 result in an average of 4.5?

(4+2+5) / 3 = 3.7

Granted, it was tied for 2nd with the Protool by one tester, but even so that wouldn't make it an average of 4.5.

Can you show me a review conducted by Sander and his testers where the Mafell (or another brand he sells) did not rank in 1st place, please?
 
Hi guys can I just ask why in the second test with the longer blades, did the timber thickness increase? 102 x 200

Regards
Leigh

Hi Leigh, not sure why you ask but it did not, it's exactly the same piece of wood although a little bit shorter while some pieces where cut of. [big grin]

We also ran same test with the same piece of wood but than after it went through a planer to square it, that block was approximately 5mm smaller both smeller and thinner.
 
Can you show me a review conducted by Sander and his testers where the Mafell (or another brand he sells) did not rank in 1st place, please?

only two tests have been done so far, the circular saw and the jigsaw. He must have had some confidence in these machines and probably that's why he choose to do these tests, you can't blame the guy for making choices like that. These are quit expensive tests. I do know Sander sometimes thinks of doing another test where comparison would go between a Festool machine, a Mafell machine and at least 1 other brand.

I think if he'll do that test my number one could be the Festool, obviously testing will need to prove that based on facts but my up front preference would be for the Festool. As he's quite convinced I'm wrong than maybe you'll see the test sometime. And by the way, we're not his permanent test team maybe next test will be done by other people.
 
Rembo72 said:
Can you show me a review conducted by Sander and his testers where the Mafell (or another brand he sells) did not rank in 1st place, please?

only two tests have been done so far, the circular saw and the jigsaw.

What about his test of Mafell vs. Festool Precisio CS 70? Who was chosen the winner of that one?

How do you explain the math for calculating the Carvex's average score?
 
Hi rembo72

Thank you for your reply.

I ask as I have been closely following this thread, I am looking to get a new jigsaw,

I seem to remember that the first test was in 95 x 95? i may be wrong this thread is so big now i am starting to loose track, and then again in 95 x 95 with the longer blades with success, then in 102 x 200 with failure. Is the 7mm difference just the same as the shorter blade in the first test?

I am going to a tool fair on Sunday and both festool and Mafell will be there so I will try both

Regards
Leigh

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top