Center your Domino height easily

[ChuckM]

A fool's errand is an idiom, meaning fruitless. Nothing more. A common, harmless phrase in conversations.

 

[ChuckM]

The advice was “no fasteners within 2” of the end of a panel or board.”  That would be dowels, screws, confirmats, into the edge of the panels.  You need space on both sides of a fastener to avoid panel breakage.  (No, they did not include dominoes.  They only included assembly methods that could be automated. But pretty much all the conclusions would apply to dominoes also.)

2"? The generalization is wrong.

The DF500 cutter's centre point is less than 1.5" from the paddles, meaning the first/ typical alignment tenons can be about 1" from the edges of a panel.

 

[Packard]

The advice was “no fasteners within 2” of the end of a panel or board.”  That would be dowels, screws, confirmats, into the edge of the panels.  You need space on both sides of a fastener to avoid panel breakage.  (No, they did not include dominoes.  They only included assembly methods that could be automated. But pretty much all the conclusions would apply to dominoes also.)

2"? The generalization is wrong.

The DF500 cutter's centre point is less than 1.5" from the paddles, meaning the first/ typical alignment tenons can be about 1" from the edges of a panel.

When I said “panels”, I was referring to sheet goods like plywood, particleboard, MDF, etc.

I’m not saying it is impossible to place them closer to the edge, but that it is ill-advised.  The fastener needs support on both sides, and 2” was the minimum recommended after all the tests were done.  The panel failed on fasteners that were closer to the edge than 2”.

 

[ChuckM]

My picture shows the measurements, with no reference to the material. It just happened that I had the sample around. The DF500 works on both ply sheets and solid wood and the same less than 1" from the edge comment applies as long as we use the paddles for registration.

I have never heard anyone using plywood having issues with the DF500 because the alignment tenons are well under 2" from the edges. The practice is not ill-advised because tenons are not dowels or screws. You should not view the DF500 and dominoes through your dowel lens or what you know about dowels. And that's what I'm trying to say.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

A fool's errand is an idiom, meaning fruitless. Nothing more. A common, harmless phrase in conversations.

Exactly, this was not personal at all. The point is that seeking a solution to a problem that does not exist is not going to give satisfaction.

The bit about the "fasteners" within 2" of the edge, may be valid, but Dominos are not fasteners. I frequently put them closer than the paddles. I have gone as far as to put an adhesive label on mine that says "25mm?" it is right in my line of sight and reminds me to be aware about whether I should be one the paddle or over at the 25mm mark on the scale.
On exceptionally narrow parts, I have put them as close as 20mm.

 

[Packard]

My picture shows the measurements, with no reference to the material. It just happened that I had the sample around. The DF500 works on both ply sheets and solid wood and the same less than 1" from the edge comment applies as long as we use the paddles for registration.

I have never heard anyone using plywood having issues with the DF500 because the alignment tenons are well under 2" from the edges. The practice is not ill-advised because tenons are not dowels or screws. You should not view the DF500 and dominoes through your dowel lens or what you know about dowels. And that's what I'm trying to say.

That was not my point. Of course you can place a domino closer to the edge.  I can put a dowel 1/4” from the edge.

The issue has to do with the structural integrity of the sheet goods. 

Will my dowel 1/4” from the edge work? Sure.  But racking the board will cause the plywood to delaminate on that fastener because there is not enough plywood on both sides to keep it together.

Keep in mind that the entire flat pack (IKEA-like stuff) does not use glue.  They depend on the mechanical strength of the joints.  It could be that if you are generous with your glue, that warning may not apply.

However the only well designed test I’ve seen says to start your fasteners 2” from the edge.

The kitchen cabinet testing made similar suggestions.

 

[ChuckM]

That was not my point. Of course you can place a domino closer to the edge.  I can put a dowel 1/4” from the edge.

The issue has to do with the structural integrity of the sheet goods. Snip.

I have to yet see a REAL LIFE (not theoretical) example in which the structural integrity of a plywood suffered because the dominoes were used less than 2" from the edge. The majority of users who build their cabinets and projects with plywood are following the "ill-advised" method because that's how the Domino Joiner was designed by Festool. I think no amount of empirical evidence is enough to change your mind on this, but that's ok.

 

[Cheese]

Well, the Flat Pack Manufacturers’ Association are probably a bunch of folks that deal 99% of the time with MDF construction. If viewed from that vantage point I'd agree with the 2" dimension.

But, if you use ply or solid wood materials, then that 2" dimension really doesn't apply. Apples & Oranges.

 

[derekcohen]

My head hurts reading all this!

1. Mark the centre of the board to be dominoed.

2. Align the Domino cutter by raising and lowering the fence level with the side marker on the Domino ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[ChuckM]

Setting the fence height by referencing the fence's milled flats to the pencil (centre) line works as long as the goal is not a "dead centre."

 

[Mini Me]

Setting the fence height by referencing the fence's milled flats to the pencil (centre) line works as long as the goal is not a "dead centre."

Why should it be dead centre is the obvious question. Using reference surfaces offsetting is an advantage for me and trying to centre it is something I have never done unless the thickness of the item being mortised is close to the Domino thickness. I use the Domino for alignment purposes and strength is entirely secondary but then I very rarely glue the Domino either because I think that is a waste of time and glue for how I use it. 

 

[ChuckM]

Why should it be dead centre is the obvious question.
Snip.

I could think of two situations where close to dead centre, if not dead centre, is warranted.

A) when you work with material that is close in thickness to the tenons you plan to use. For example, one of my projects called for the use of 5mm ply with 4mm dominoes.

B) in the case of projects involving exposed tenons, the design may call for tenons in a centered appearance.

Typical domino applications fall outside these two categories.

 

[ChuckM]

Centered or not, there's one big reason why you should try to use the preset thickness gauge to set the fence height: repeatability.

On more than one occasions, after the fence height was changed, I needed to go back to the previous fence height. Bingo when you set the fence with one of the presets. No guess work and no trial and error to get your fence back to exactly where it was.

Resetting the fence to 19mm is easy peasy. 19.23mm (because you tried to dead centre the fence in the first place even though it was not necessary)? Ummm.

 

[smorgasbord]

Centered or not, there's one big reason why you should try to use the preset thickness gauge to set the fence height: repeatability.

Absolutely. If I'm going to deviate, and its more than a simple one-off, I use gage blocks on the stepped stop to get in-between. Putting a 3mm block on the 15mm step gives me 18mm in a repeatable fashion. If you don't have gage blocks, just make your own out of wood. The exact number isn't as important as the ability to repeat the measurement should you trash a workpiece and need to make a replacement hours/days/weeks later.

 

[ChuckM]

Gauge block on the (thickness) gauge. That's a very handy tip!

 

[rmhinden]

The process I use with my XL700 to make center line mortices is as follows:

• I first scribe a center line on an extra piece of the stock (usually a cutoff) using my Bridge City CenterScribe.
• Then I adjust the fence so the scribed line matches the center line on the XL700.  The XL has center lines on its base (unlike the 500).
• Even with this, I am careful to always use the same reference side of the wood against the fence.

This setup is done with the XL in a Domino Dock I made from these plans.

I am very happy with the results from this approach.  I never use the height gauge or fixed height adjustment stops.  I think this provide consistent mortices if I had to do some later, but fortunately I haven't had to do that (yet).

Bob

 

[smorgasbord]

The XL has center lines on its base (unlike the 500).[/list]

The DF500's sides are milled to the 10mm centerline, so you just line up the top of the milled area.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Centered or not, there's one big reason why you should try to use the preset thickness gauge to set the fence height: repeatability.

Absolutely. If I'm going to deviate, and its more than a simple one-off, I use gage blocks on the stepped stop to get in-between. Putting a 3mm block on the 15mm step gives me 18mm in a repeatable fashion. If you don't have gage blocks, just make your own out of wood. The exact number isn't as important as the ability to repeat the measurement should you trash a workpiece and need to make a replacement hours/days/weeks later.

Sedge just used that technique to fine tune Domino location for some thick edge banding, using a .5mm gauge block to get a little bit of leeway to insure that he could get the edge banding absolutely flat to the plywood since sometimes there are minor undulations in the thickness of plywood, even the "best" stuff.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Centered or not, there's one big reason why you should try to use the preset thickness gauge to set the fence height: repeatability.

Absolutely. If I'm going to deviate, and its more than a simple one-off, I use gage blocks on the stepped stop to get in-between. Putting a 3mm block on the 15mm step gives me 18mm in a repeatable fashion. If you don't have gage blocks, just make your own out of wood. The exact number isn't as important as the ability to repeat the measurement should you trash a workpiece and need to make a replacement hours/days/weeks later.

Sedge just used that technique to fine tune Domino location for some thick edge banding, using a .5mm gauge block to get a little bit of leeway to insure that he could get the edge banding absolutely flat to the plywood since sometimes there are minor undulations in the thickness of plywood, even the "best" stuff.

Good tip! I’ve experienced the problem but hadn’t bothered to think of a solution.

 

[derekcohen]

Further to my previous comment, if you need repeatable, and the boards are "traditional" thicknesses, the Seneca DomiPlate was designed for this purpose.

Regards from Perth

Derek