Centrotec drill bits and accessories: what would you do?

[wilburpan]

I finally took the plunge and a CXS kit is on its way to me.  [smile]  It's my first Festool drill.

I plan on taking advantage of the Centrotec system as much as possible, since that's one of the main reasons that I finally decided to go with Festool.  Tonight I started putting together a wish list of drill/driver bits and accessories for drilling small-medium sized holes and driving screws, and this is what I think would be ideal for me:

Centrotec Philips bits, #1, #2, #3
Centrotec 3.5 mm and 4.5 mm countersinks with depth stops
Centrotec twist drill bits, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5 mm
BH60 magnetic holder
1/2" Fastfix keyless chuck for use with the brad point drill bits that I already have and like. Alternatively, I could get the Centrotec imperial brad point drill bit set instead.

This comes out to $344-414, depending on the last item. The Centrotec installers set is currently available for pretty much the same price.  After closely looking over the specs and reviews of this set, it looks like there are a few things that I would use from that kit, like the 1/4" and 3/8" socket adapters and the slot bits, some things that would be nice to have but not crucial and so would get little use (hook driver, hand driver, stubby drill bits), but there is a lot that I wouldn't use, like the other countersinks, and the Torx and Posidrive bits.  And even if I did get the installers set, I still would want to get the twist drill bits and the 4.5 mm countersink with depth stop.

On the other hand, there's that part of me that keeps saying, "But it's such a bargain!" The installers kit plus the other stuff that I want would be about $100 more, but I would have all those other accessories that would be nice to have, but not crucial.

On the third hand, I really want to avoid having tools around that I really won't use (Torx/Posidrive bits).

So what would you do?

 

[VictorL]

On the third hand, I really want to avoid having tools around that I really won't use (Torx/Posidrive bits).

So what would you do?

Torx is much better than square drive. Lowe's sells a lot of torx screws.
Bosch and Festool use torx in their goods.

 

[ScotF]

The set is really a nice set and I use the hand driver and some of the other bits more than I thought.  And, I believe it is on a sale/clearance price at some dealers if you can find one so it might not be much more than what you are looking at.  Having everything readily available in its own Systainer is nice too -- no more searching around for the right size bit -- you can keep the Systainers together and always have what you need.  Only you can decide -- your list looks pretty good, though for general drilling.

Scot

 

[Vindingo]

This is just a personal preference, but I dislike using the BH60 a lot.  The bits fall out all the time (maybe that won't happen if you only use phillips?) and I find the BHS65 to be a superior bit holder.

Festool brad point bits are very nice, so you can't go wrong with them either. 

 

[woodie]

You forgot one of the best parts of the Centrotec Set, the included Systainer and storage liners. Being able to attach it to my C12 or T18 and haul around as one box is really nice. I bought the set when it first came out (the limited edition ruse worked on me) and I've used nearly everything in it, except for the hook driver. Now with the reduced pricing, it makes it an even better value.

I agree with Vindingo on the BHS65. In fact its whats in my drill/driver most of the time. Although, there are a few occasions when the added thickness of the locking collar gets in the way, so it's nice having the BH60 too. 

 

[RC]

I can't understand why anyone would want to use Philips screws since you have torx and to a lesser extent the Pozidrive screws available  [scared]

After the slot screw Philips is the worst screw-end to use that I know of - always slips and gets rounded.

My go to screws are either torx or ttap (torx with a round hole in the middle for added bit holding capability) on them or then Pozidrive if neither of the torx variants are available. I guess the only cases where I still use Philips screws are if a gadget comes with them and if I only replace a single screw I'll make it a Philips just to keep the screws uniform or some drywall and electric installation screws only come in Philips.

So I would say that the Torx & Pozidrive bits are well worth it and the Philips ones not... Got to have all varieties in the kit though since you never know what you need to open while fixing things someone else has built...

I've been wondering about this Robertson square screw head that pops up on this board a lot - is it really that much better than torx that it's worth trying modify bit holders to take then in centrotec? On this side of the pond I haven't found them at all so don't have first hand experience of them - just curious...  [scratch chin]

 

[Brice Burrell]

....Having everything readily available in its own Systainer is nice too -- no more searching around for the right size bit -- you can keep the Systainers together and always have what you need......

Scot

I agree, with Scot and Woodie.  The importance of having everything together shouldn't be underestimated.

This is just a personal preference, but I dislike using the BH60 a lot.  The bits fall out all the time (maybe that won't happen if you only use phillips?) and I find the BHS65 to be a superior bit holder......

The good news is the installers set comes with both the BH60 and the BHS60 (and also the long extension).

....Festool brad point bits are very nice, so you can't go wrong with them either. 

Again, I agree, the Festool brad point bits are first rate.  You will not be disappointing having these if you get the installers set.

The down side to the installers is no twist bits.  I would have thought it would make a lot sense to include these in the set.  As for the Torx bits, you'll use probable use then sometime in the not too distant future.  They are becoming more and more available everyday.  A few Pozidrive bits are nice thing to have around for euro cabinet hardware but honestly you'll need more then one or two in your lifetime.  Considering this set was made specifically for North America I can't see why they included any Pozidrive bits beyond the ones in the twin box.  Poor decision.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I can't understand why anyone would want to use Philips screws since you have torx and to a lesser extent the Pozidrive screws available  [scared].......

........I've been wondering about this Robertson square screw head that pops up on this board a lot - is it really that much better than torx that it's worth trying modify bit holders to take then in centrotec? On this side of the pond I haven't found them at all so don't have first hand experience of them - just curious...  [scratch chin]

It all comes down to convention.  Philips screws aren't use in the US because they are the best, but rather that they have been the standard for many years now.  Robertson (square) screws were invented in Canada so they have become widely used there.  The good news for those of us in North America is Trox is becoming more widely adopted making them easier to find in stores.  You won't find Pozidrive screws in the US other than on Euro cabinet hardware.     

 

[RC]

Oh, I didn't realize that torx & especially pozidrive aren't a universal standard  [eek]

They've been around here the standard (torx for decking  & machine screws and pozidrive for everything else except drywall screws that still stubbornly are Philips) for so many years that I can barely remember when they didn't exist.

 

[EWTHeckman]

everything else except drywall screws that still stubbornly are Philips

McFeely's claims that the reason for this is because of cam out. Since the driver isn't so positively connected to the screw, it reduces the chances of accidentally overdriving the screw. I've hung enough drywall to think they're probably correct.

 

[wilburpan]

Thanks for all the input. I decided to take the opposite tack, and order the installers kit and hold off on ordering the 4.5mm countersink and twist drill bits until a time that I actually need them.

I still think I'll get little to no use from the Torx and Posidrive drivers, though. [smile]  I've been using Spax screws, which have a combination Phillips/square drive socket head, and even with a Phillips driver I don't have issues with cam out for the most part.  (I know that there are some Spax screws with Torx heads, but I don't use those particular screws.) But if the U.S. starts using more Torx/Posidrive screws, I'll be set.

 

[hhh]

==> It all comes down to convention.  Philips screws aren't use in the US because they are the best, but rather that they have been the standard for many years now.  Robertson (square) screws were invented in Canada so they have become widely used there.  The good news for those of us in North America is Trox is becoming more widely adopted making them easier to find in stores.  You won't find Pozidrive screws in the US other than on Euro cabinet hardware.  

there is a very good article on wikipedia on screw types.  A lot of who/what/where comes down to patents, licensing, design considerations and adoption by certain key industries.  There is slightly more to this story then just 'convention' As an example, Robertson (a Canadian) refused to license his screw design to the US auto industry after being 'screwed' by his EU licensee...

 

[GhostFist]

Again I would love to use torx more but the industry standard is Robertson for what i do. On a set of 200 carps at times I can't be the only guy using a particular type of screw while everyone else is using robbies. Until then i'm stuck with them, though much prefer them to phillips

 

[Nathan Lee]

What is it about the cxs that makes it so popular? It's a 10.8v drill That's over priced (like all festool) not to say that I don't like or use festool I own the ro90dx (everyone takes the P#ss out of me for buying a £400 sander) and the of1400

But what do you use a 10.8v drill for in the uk we all use 18v and that goes all day, I have held a cxs and it's very nice in the hand, but I'm now Saving up for the t-18 Because anything smaller than 18v just won't do in finish site carpentry

But I own the makita plunge saw and there is no difference between the makita ts and the festool ts55

So what's the diffrence between the makita 10.8 and the festool cxs?

 

[junk731]

"So what's the diffrence between the makita 10.8 and the festool cxs?"

Comes in a Systainer, has a 90 degree chuck and is made in Germany not China. Nathan, just for the record, I own a C12 and 3 of the 10.8v Makita's that I use everyday. For my work, somedays the 90 degree chuck is worth its weight in gold.

John

 

[Vindingo]

but I'm now Saving up for the t-18 Because anything smaller than 18v just won't do in finish site carpentry

That's funny. 

 

[Nathan Lee]

Maybe that's what I missing then because I've never used a festool drill with all those fancy chucks, I suppose it's a bit like the fien multi-saw you don't use it a lot but when you need it your glad you bought it

And yer yer I just read the 18v for finish carpentery an I did laugh reading back At it, what I meant was why go for anything less than 18v, i thought the Americans loved 'MORE POWER'

Sorry for the thread jack

 

[ctfeet]

On the third hand, I really want to avoid having tools around that I really won't use (Torx/Posidrive bits).

So what would you do?

You have three hands??  [eek]

Seriously though, I think you will find that the Torx screws are better than the others.  In order of driving ability it would be slotted, Phillips, Square / Robertson, Torx.  I rarely, if ever, get slipping with the Torx screws but a little more with the square drive.

 

[fdengel]

I'm convinced that my C12 gets better battery life than do most of my 18V tools.

In general, the Festool drills have more power than most drills in the next voltage class up when comparing to other companies.

 

[neeleman]

That's why Festool called the T-series: T12+3, T15+3 and T18+3.
Don't know why they did not do that with the C-series, because they use the same batteries.
Maybe the C-series have other motors or electronics, don't think so?