Chisel choice ?

[jacko9]

For mortise chisels, these get great reviews:

English Mortise Chisels by Ray Iles

I didn't notice any specifications on those chisels except for the type of tool steel used.  I would like to know how they are forged and heat treated.

Knowing the Rockwell hardness is a start but the forging process and heat treatment will determine the grain structure and the degree of hardness to fracture toughness.

Jack

 

[Ajax]

Just a heads up guys, I just packaged my set of 6 Narex chisels to send them back to Lee Valley.  I have been in communication with their customer service department and they are very reasonable and helpful but, I can't cut hardwood (white oak) with these chisels.

I got them and sharpened with a progression of stones up to 8000 grit.  I used the Veritas Mk. II guide which is an excellent tool and had a nicely polished edge and back on all six of them.  I started cutting dovetail joints in white oak and it became apparent after striking the 1/2" chisel several times that the edge was completely destroyed and turned over into a wire burr on the back side.  I thought that possibly there could be an edge effect from the heat treatment so, I re-sharpened the 1/2" chisel and the results were the same (destroyed after several strikes). 

I set them aside and used my Japanese bench chisels to finish the work.  I believe that the Narex are a great value and can be used for most woods including softer hardwoods but I mostly use harder woods and these just won't work for me.

I ordered a set of the Hirsch German made mortise chisels to see if they stand up to hardest woods.  If not, I guess I'll buy a set of the high quality Japanese mortise chisels.

Jack

Interesting.  I have the Narex bevel edged and mortise chisel sets and I've used them exclusively to cut mortise and tenons in white oak for craftsman style tables, desks, etc. and they've served me well.  I'm a lazy sharpener and I've only worked them over with 4000 grit waterstones.  I used the Veritas Mk2 jig for this.

Maybe you got a bad set.

Anyhow, I'm looking to upgrade to LN chisels for hand cut dovetails.  Nothing wrong with the Narex, just giving myself an excuse to buy some quality tools.

 

[jacko9]

Just a heads up guys, I just packaged my set of 6 Narex chisels to send them back to Lee Valley.  I have been in communication with their customer service department and they are very reasonable and helpful but, I can't cut hardwood (white oak) with these chisels.

I got them and sharpened with a progression of stones up to 8000 grit.  I used the Veritas Mk. II guide which is an excellent tool and had a nicely polished edge and back on all six of them.  I started cutting dovetail joints in white oak and it became apparent after striking the 1/2" chisel several times that the edge was completely destroyed and turned over into a wire burr on the back side.  I thought that possibly there could be an edge effect from the heat treatment so, I re-sharpened the 1/2" chisel and the results were the same (destroyed after several strikes). 

I set them aside and used my Japanese bench chisels to finish the work.  I believe that the Narex are a great value and can be used for most woods including softer hardwoods but I mostly use harder woods and these just won't work for me.

I ordered a set of the Hirsch German made mortise chisels to see if they stand up to hardest woods.  If not, I guess I'll buy a set of the high quality Japanese mortise chisels.

Jack

Interesting.  I have the Narex bevel edged and mortise chisel sets and I've used them exclusively to cut mortise and tenons in white oak for craftsman style tables, desks, etc. and they've served me well.  I'm a lazy sharpener and I've only worked them over with 4000 grit waterstones.  I used the Veritas Mk2 jig for this.

Maybe you got a bad set.

Anyhow, I'm looking to upgrade to LN chisels for hand cut dovetails.  Nothing wrong with the Narex, just giving myself an excuse to buy some quality tools.

Lee Valley has flagged my return and they intend on testing them to see if they have a bad set.  They tested others sets they had in stock and they meet specification.  It's too bad because I liked the weight and feel of the Narex chisels.  I have similar issue with the Marples chisels which couldn't hold an edge in hard materials so I hollow ground them with my hand crank grinder and sharpen them after every use (which isn't too often given the sharpening time).

Jack

 

[JayStPeter]

When I did my chisel upgrade, I bought/borrowed a bunch of different 1/2" chisels in order to decide which I wanted a full set of.  I chose LN.  They feel right and come ready to hone and use.
I don't remember all the different brands I tried honestly, it was years ago when LN first came out with chisels.  I don't think Narex was one of the brands available then, but there was something from LV in the mix (plastic handles IIRC, not in the catalog anymore I don't think).  Two cherries, Ashley Iles, Sorby, inexpensive Japanese.  I started less expensive and moved up, so anything nearly equal or more expensive than LN was off the table once I got the LN.  There was one brand I actually liked nearly as much (one of the 3 I listed, but can't remember which), but it showed up needing a lot of work to get sharpened and the blade didn't stay sharp quite as long.  I decided I'd rather pay the extra $10-12 per chisel and go LN because they felt better, came ready to go with a quick honing, and are made in the US.
I think anymore, the LN chisels are even more expensive than some of the others.  I did try the newer Stanley chisels at a WW show and they seem like a really good bang for the buck (didn't have to sharpen them, so don't know how they arrive or how long they last).  But, LN would still be my choice.  When I finally sucked it up and bought one there was no going back.

 

[John Broomall]

I think every chisel mentioned on here would be worth having! Don't overlook the old Stanley 750's (now expensive) or the old Buck Bros or Butcher Bros that turn up on eBay.

The Veritas MKII jig is worth every penny.

I am partial to the Wood is Good urethane mallets. The sharp sound made when using wooden mallets bothers my ears.

 

[Cheese]

JayStPeter,
When you did your chisel comparison, did you try Pfeil?  They're Swiss. If so what were your thoughts?

 

[MrGinCT]

I've tried several brands, both new and old, and found the old Stanley 750's great, but hard to come by, so I bought their new 750's and I love them.  Like all hand tools, they need to be kept sharp and for that I use the Veritas Mark II sharpening guide to hold a consistent angle.

I've not tried the LN chisels LV's newest chisel offerings thought.

 

[MrGinCT]

I've tried several brands, both new and old, and found the old Stanley 750's great, but hard to come by, so I bought their new 750's and I love them.  Like all hand tools, they need to be kept sharp and for that I use the Veritas Mark II sharpening guide to hold a consistent angle.

I've not tried the LN chisels LV's newest chisel offerings thought.

 

[jacko9]

I ordered a set of the Hirsch German made mortise chisels and promptly returned them to Lee Valley because these feel more like chisels for heavy carpentry work.

I purchased one of the new Veritas PM-V11 bench chisels and it came in as sharp as any chisel I've ever purchased and it edge retention is excellent.

I also purchased four Shigezo Matsumura Blue Steel bench chisels from Japan Woodworker and these also came in razor sharp with excellent edge edge retention.

I have one of both brands in the same size and I'll be doing a comparison test over the next month or so but, as received they both are fantastic products.

Jack

 

[jacko9]

I have it on good authority that Veritas is about to release their PM-V11 steel in a Mortise Chisel this spring.  Here is a link to their web site with information about the steel;

http://www.pm-v11.com

Jack

 

[Stone Message]

I have the Veritas PM-V11 chisels and also my Veritas plane irons are PM-V11.

The chisels were jolly sharp on arrival but it does pay to give new kit a kiss on the stone or with lapping film.

PM-V11 is brilliant.

Peter

 

[jacko9]

I have the Veritas PM-V11 chisels and also my Veritas plane irons are PM-V11.

The chisels were jolly sharp on arrival but it does pay to give new kit a kiss on the stone or with lapping film.

PM-V11 is brilliant.

Peter

Peter,

I was very impressed by the sharpness of the Veritas chisel and I used my Veritas MkII sharpening fixture to try the chisel on my 8000 grit Shapton Glass water stone, it polished up right away.

I can't wait for the Mortise chisel release I understand that they will be releasing 1/8, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" sizes this spring.  Look for the release and perhaps a special introductory pricing [big grin]

Jack

 

[Mr Heavy]

Y'all fancy folk probably consider 'em low end carpentry spoons, but I love my Bahcos, which I treat as if they are the most precious of preciousness. I never hit 'em, just slide 'em around with firm finger pressure and they repay me for the consideration.

I have a set of the blue handled usuals that I strike with a wooden mallet for hogging out, and a couple of Chiwanese pound-store jobs that I'll hit with a hammer if need be and generally use for gash jobs and driving into unknown territory pr scraping nastiness off.

All in all I'm sorted - so far...

 

[Locks14]

Irwin Marples with the split proof yellow/red clear handles are my choice because of their balance of price vs. performance.

Ultimately a chisel is just a sharp edge with force applied to it, and the fancy designer ones with the supposedly magical steel that retains its edge for x as long are just a tax on the gullible.

No matter how tough the steel is, good practice is to to hone the edge little and often, which renders these supposedly superior steels a moot point. 

 

[wrightwoodwork]

I've had 2 sets of the mentioned marples chisels they offer reasonable performance. The only critism is the beval at thier sides doesn't come to edges fully. For doing the likes of dovetails etc. For all other stuff they are fine

Irwin Marples with the split proof yellow/red clear handles are my choice because of their balance of price vs. performance.

Ultimately a chisel is just a sharp edge with force applied to it, and the fancy designer ones with the supposedly magical steel that retains its edge for x as long are just a tax on the gullible.

No matter how tough the steel is, good practice is to to hone the edge little and often, which renders these supposedly superior steels a moot point.

 

[JimD]

My "better" chisels are Footprint brand.  I googled them to see if they are still available and they are but are apparently not made in England any more.  They are relatively inexpensive.  I also saw a "Narex" brand made in eastern Europe that looked interesting.  The are both "every day" kind of chisels.  I like my Footprint, I use a Craftsman set for scraping glue and lessor tasks, but I don't want to pretend they are high end tools.  But they will take a good edge and hold it through a reasonable amount of work.

 

[jacko9]

My "better" chisels are Footprint brand.  I googled them to see if they are still available and they are but are apparently not made in England any more.  They are relatively inexpensive.  I also saw a "Narex" brand made in eastern Europe that looked interesting.  The are both "every day" kind of chisels.  I like my Footprint, I use a Craftsman set for scraping glue and lessor tasks, but I don't want to pretend they are high end tools.  But they will take a good edge and hold it through a reasonable amount of work.

I bought a set of the Narex, sharpened them to 8000 grit and then started using them to hand cut dovetails in white oak.  They lasted about 5 minutes until the edge was rolled over and were totally useless.  For soft woods these are pretty good chisels they were well balanced even though the finish was a rough grind that I had to take down to the 320 grit stone.  The biggest issue with these stones is that are only hardened to RcH 59 which is much soften than any of my other chisels and it shows.  Check out the Veritas with the PM-V11 steel or the Blue steel chisels at Japan Woodworker which are both hardened in the RcH 62-65 range.  I have some of each of these chisels and they keep a great edge and are easy to re-sharpen when needed.

Jack

Jack

 

[charley1968]

Having used Kirschen/2 cherries during my apprenticeship in the early 2000s and being perfectly happy, i've recently read on a german WW forum that their quality is no longer as good as it used to be. I was thus forced to buy the Veritas O1 and then even the PM11-V. And these are GOOD chisels.

 

[travisj]

I have a 5 piece Sorby bench set that my dad gave me as a gift.  He also broke in my Worksharp 3000 with them.  Not sure what happened, but the Sorby's will roll the edge (like the previously mentioned Narex) when chopping mortises into pine.  My dad blames his technique on the Worksharp for cooking the steel.  I've been meaning to regrind them on the Tormek and see if they are salvageable. 

I have about a dozen of the Sorby mortise chisels and I love those.  My "best" bench chisels are a set of Craftsman's that have plastic handles with a metal striking cap.  They will hold an edge like nothing I have ever used.

I have been kicking around the idea of getting a quality set of bench chisels and had narrowed it down to the LN or the LV PM.  I was interested in this discussion, but it wasn't a lot of help since they were both highly regarded.

 

[demographic]

I've had a set of "Rocket Lolly Marples*" chisels since about 1999, served me well on building sites over that period and I use a steel hammer on them. The key to keep them lasting well is to keep them sharp. If you need to bray away hard at them, you likely need to sharpen them

Several Rocket lollys...

A freshly sharpened Marples chisel, yesterday...

I have various old Marples, Henry Taylor, Althams & Sons of Penrith, and masses of other makes I can't remember right now but for general site use I still like my yellow and red Marples.

*Any British child of the 70s will know what a rocket lolly is.