Communication with TSO Products

[Imemiter]

My unpopular take on the subject is that getting any reply at all from TSO is better than having tickets completely ignored by Festool USA.

 

[jeh]

What kind of response were you expecting other than possibly hoping that your email would generate a discount. Their pricing model is their business and like everything else if you do not like it then go somewhere else or do without. No reason to badger such a small operation with petty pricing inquiries. Like most everything else their material prices have probably increased or the items may have been underpriced to begin with.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

My point was that you do not apologize for a price increase, you just do it. However, hesitating in doing so, to the point that when it does happen, the increase is that drastic, is just bad.

TSO does have a good reputation here and Hans has personally addressed things here before. That may be driving a least some of the "familiarity" in the questioning?

 

[squall_line]

Two points:

1. Kevin probably can't be president, I'm guessing he wasn't born in the USA.  We're the worse for it, but I don't think he'd have the opportunities to work on some of the amazing pieces and places he works on if he were in the States.  To wit, he's posted pictures of projects that are older than our country!

2. A sale price before a price increase compared to a retail price after a price increase is going to cause more sticker shock than normal.

Bonus point: When Woodpeckers announced their price increase, I still didn't pull the trigger on the slab flattening pro jig.  It was the "sale" item the following month, with the sale price the same as the former full retail price, which was already fairly eye-watering.

 

[Vondawg]

On top of everything said …..no one else makes that power loc dog, it’s super unique

 

[Rick Herrick]

What kind of response were you expecting other than possibly hoping that your email would generate a discount. Their pricing model is their business and like everything else if you do not like it then go somewhere else or do without. No reason to badger such a small operation with petty pricing inquiries. Like most everything else their material prices have probably increased or the items may have been underpriced to begin with.

Did you even take the time to read my original post or are you jumping on me like everyone else?  I thought I was very clear in that I agreed their model is their business.  I did not badger anyone, I simply asked to confirm if this price I was seeing was correct.  I still stick to my statement that I would have expected a better response from Linda but she doesn't work for me so nothing I can do there either.

Sometimes some of you guys already have your mind made up on what you want to say, thinking it is completely different from the other 20 guys that just said the same thing.  You should read the entire thread before throwing darts.

 

[TSO_Products]

Dear customers and friends:

This FOG thread is a powerful reminder how easy it is to misread a situation and create unintended consequences.

I’m reminded of a quote attributed to a famed American poet :
              “people will forget what you said,
                but people will remember how you made them feel!”
                                              Maya Angelou  1928 - 2014

        If our good customer, Rick Herrick, had not taken the extra steps of first contacting us and then following up by elevating the matter on the FOG, I would not have learned about this important missed opportunity for TSO to explain to its loyal customer base what is impacting us and causing us to behave in ways puzzling at least some of our customers.

So a personal thank you for giving me and the rest of TSO Team  the opportunity to learn an important lesson summed up so well by Maya Angelou years ago.

Separately, we will make an effort to be more forthcoming about the challenges and limitations facing TSO and its customers as we push forward together to advance the state of woodworking. Perhaps a practical way is a behind-the-scenes Editorial in the TSO INSIDER – look for it soon.

Hans

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

What kind of response were you expecting other than possibly hoping that your email would generate a discount. Their pricing model is their business and like everything else if you do not like it then go somewhere else or do without. No reason to badger such a small operation with petty pricing inquiries. Like most everything else their material prices have probably increased or the items may have been underpriced to begin with.

Did you even take the time to read my original post or are you jumping on me like everyone else?  I thought I was very clear in that I agreed their model is their business.  I did not badger anyone, I simply asked to confirm if this price I was seeing was correct.  I still stick to my statement that I would have expected a better response from Linda but she doesn't work for me so nothing I can do there either.

Sometimes some of you guys already have your mind made up on what you want to say, thinking it is completely different from the other 20 guys that just said the same thing.  You should read the entire thread before throwing darts.

Rick,

I read your whole statement, and still don't understand why you're choosing to make a fuss. Please elaborate on what a "better" response would have been, other than "This is our new price". Were you expecting a handwritten card?

 

[Banana]

Nah, nah & nah.  Still an almost 100% price increase on an item China can crank out for $15 and make a profit. Pretty simple to make.
> Customer is always right.  Why? Because they vote with their money.  Everyone is entitled to vote the way they want.  If they want to pay they are ‘right’.  If they don’t want to pay they are ‘right’.
> Same exact arguments for TSO’s sovereignty can be said for OP too. 
> Op knew full well TSO is glued to these forums.  Wanted to express ‘his’ displeasure in ‘his’ thread.  By shutting him down and supporting the almost doubling price increase you’ve voted against your best interests.  At the old price company was growing exponentially, they just saw an opportunity and took it plain and simple.
> Not supporting price increase is not thwarting innovation or availability. 3D printing, online CNC is starting to saturate.  If you can draw it, it can be delivered in a week cutting out the marketing and middle man.  The customer drives the market.  We are fabricators ourselves not a tool fan club, remember that.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=72312]Rick Herrick[/member] As the first person to post an alternative viewpoint, I feel at least partially responsible for the fact that this thread regrettably seems to have headed down the 'Rick vs. the world' rabbit hole, and despite standing by everything I said, I feel that I owe you an apology for perhaps being the unwitting instigator of this. It was just an opinion, and nothing more. I don't have a malicious or confrontational bone in my body, and I enjoy being part of the FOG because it's a supportive and polite forum, populated by thoughtful and literate members. It's certainly not a place for dart-throwers - plus the request for me to run for President is in clear violation of the forum's 'NO POLITICS' rule, so it's an opportunity I regrettably won't be pursuing. My apologies to your fine country - you'll just have to somehow get through the next administration without me.

I completely understand what it's like to have spent big bucks with a company, and then not to receive the kind of customer service you'd expect in return for your loyalty, and I totally empathise with how it obviously made you feel. But no-one's ganging up on you, they're just saying that if the product is what you need and it's unique, just bite the bullet and order it, despite the price hike whose cause is unknown - but which is 99.9% likely to be completely legitimate. Keep your faith in the blue - it's just a few extra bucks for something which will last a lifetime.

TSO themselves have now entered the discussion, and acknowledged that they maybe didn't communicate especially well on this occasion, and have provided a public response on here - which is to their great credit. Everything which folks have felt the need to say on this topic has now been said - so I think it's time for us all to draw a line and move on. We've all got some woodworking to get done.

Best wishes
Kevin

 

[Mini Me]

Nah, nah & nah.  Still an almost 100% price increase on an item China can crank out for $15 and make a profit. Pretty simple to make.
> Customer is always right.  Why? Because they vote with their money.  Everyone is entitled to vote the way they want.  If they want to pay they are ‘right’.  If they don’t want to pay they are ‘right’.
> Same exact arguments for TSO’s sovereignty can be said for OP too. 
> Op knew full well TSO is glued to these forums.  Wanted to express ‘his’ displeasure in ‘his’ thread.  By shutting him down and supporting the almost doubling price increase you’ve voted against your best interests.  At the old price company was growing exponentially, they just saw an opportunity and took it plain and simple.
> Not supporting price increase is not thwarting innovation or availability. 3D printing, online CNC is starting to saturate.  If you can draw it, it can be delivered in a week cutting out the marketing and middle man.  The customer drives the market.  We are fabricators ourselves not a tool fan club, remember that.

While not agreeing with all the points in quotes I agree with a lot of it. If the original post had not been made then this thread would not exist. The main problem I see with a lot of price complaints is they are made with absolutely no concept of manufacturing and selling in the retail market and the problems that TSO and every other retailer has. This attitude has driven manufacturers off shore and destroyed manufacturing in the western world and the customers still can't grasp that point. The manufacturers want a margin and the customers want a cheaper price, it's a pretty simple equation really.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I've got almost everything TSO sells - love using their products. Early on most communication was done through Hans. Seems their business has grown pretty big, so a lot of the communication firstly goes through my guess non-decision makers. I would suggest you try to make contact with Hans. He is a straight shooter and will help you figure out why there is such a variance in pricing.

 

[squall_line]

This thread seems to keep [dead horse] comparing sale prices to post-increase prices, castigating people for wanting cheap products, and then we began to veer into politics with talk of the destruction of western manufacturing and the role of central banks in mitigating inflation.

I think we should probably let this one rest and let Hans and Rick work it out privately.

IMHO.

 

[Banana]

I’m just ******* around stirring the pot.  It’s all subjective.  (The possibility that some mod somewhere was looking at this thread as a ticking bomb cracked me up).

But I’ll throw one last rock regarding inflation and then bail.  If what I’m led to believe is true, central banks can just wave a wand and make this all go away.  Again, that’s what all these ‘documentaries’ lead me to believe and if true I find that incredible.

 

[mino]

My point was that you do not apologize for a price increase, you just do it. However, hesitating in doing so, to the point that when it does happen, the increase is that drastic, is just bad.

TSO does have a good reputation here and Hans has personally addressed things here before. That may be driving a least some of the "familiarity" in the questioning?

I think it is fair to say TSO anticipated the Covid supply "craze" to subside.

Instead, we all got ourselves a global (not only) economic war. Some of the biggest natural resource suppliers, including of specialist metals, are either returning us a favor and/or we are sanctioning ourselves. Russia severely restricts special metals exports etc. etc. Resulting market pricing is seeing several hundred percent increases. In Europe electricity is sold @50c/kWh etc. etc.

So, instead of the expected 30% increase had things have come to normal, TSO was likely looking at a 50% increase -on-top-of- the original one. Or to discontinue the product.

Mind you. MANY companies just discontinue a product in such a circumstance ...

For non-aluminum dogs the new price is IMO reasonable. The old one was a bargain.

My 2 cents.

 

[semenza]

I’m just ******* around stirring the pot.  It’s all subjective.  (The possibility that some mod somewhere was looking at this thread as a ticking bomb cracked me up).

If you are referring to me. I am looking at this thread and it is not cracking me up.

Seth