Compressor Advice for Pressure Pot and Conventional Gun setup

[Pnw painter]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Binks Pressure Pot and Conventional gun set up for spraying cabinets and built-ins. One of my local suppliers recommends a Binks Trophy Gun and a Binks 2.8 gal pot with double regulators and stainless steel lid, pick-up tube and all fluid fittings.

After a lot of searching online I need some advice on purchasing a compressor that I can use with this setup in the field. I can't go huge as it needs to be portable and I'll likely add an additional storage for to use in my shop.

Here are two compressors that I thought might work:

Chicago Pneumatic 20 Gallon Air Compressor - 7.1 maximum cfm at 90pshttp://www.eastwood.com/chicago-pneumatic-20-gallon-air-compressor-rcp220p-50490.html

Eastwood 30 Gallon Air Compressor - 5.7 CFM@90PSIhttp://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-30-gallon-belt-driven-1-9hp-air-compressor.html

 

[tiralie]

Buy a compressor with more CFM. The Chicago Chicago Pneumatic is the bare minimum. The Binks gun requires a minimum of 6.4cfm using the C1 HVLP cap. If you are using another cap, you will max out the CFM that compressor will handle. You will find that when spraying it will be running frequently and the C1 cap set will be slow.
CFM is much more important than pressure when spraying. You could augment the compressor with a pig or auxiliary tank  to store more air so the pump isn't running all the time.
Tim

 

[Pnw painter]

Thanks for the advice on finding a compressor with more CFM. I'm somewhat concerned that I wouldn't be able to load a larger compressor in my truck or that I'd be blowing breakers in clients homes if the motor is larger. If you have any recommendations on a specific compressor that would be greatly appreciated.

Would it make more sense to find a different gun that requires less CFM?

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[Cheese]

I have a Binks Mach I HVLP gun and I had to change the air cap to a 90P in order to use it with my compressor. My compressor puts out 9 cfm @ 40psi and 7.5 cfm @ 90 psi and would run continuously and starve the gun until I changed air caps.

I understand you want to use the smaller compressor for portability reasons, in that case you'll have to change air caps and get into the 4-6 cfm range. Make sure the compressor is capable of 7-9 cfm in the 40 psi range for cushion.

 

[tjbnwi]

My vote is a turbine for field work. They work with pressure pots, you only need a very small compressor to run the pot.

Tom

 

[junk731]

Thanks for the advice on finding a compressor with more CFM. I'm somewhat concerned that I wouldn't be able to load a larger compressor in my truck or that I'd be blowing breakers in clients homes if the motor is larger. If you have any recommendations on a specific compressor that would be greatly appreciated.

Would it make more sense to find a different gun that requires less CFM?

Sounds like you want a proper gun, while turbines sort of work for the most part unless you deep pockets they are strugglers. Just do a search and read whats on this forum alone. No one ever complains about the finish you can get from a good gun and compressor. A compressor is also multifunctional in the shop and jobsite, turbines not so much. Check the Low CFM gun in the link, the only reason I recommend them is they have served me well, give a great finish and I have nothing to gain. No ads, no YouTube hooks.
http://www.spraycat.com/hvlp.html
http://www.spraycat.com/Feline LCFM SL.pdf

John

 

[Jeff2413]

Have you considered an air assisted airless?  I much prefer this to a pot and gun (or turbine) and I have all three.  The portable compressor/gun set up is expensive IMO and not the best option for more reasons than that.  The turbine lacks control of the fluid AND the air unless someone makes something I'm unaware. Maybe they do. To me the Kremlin EOS or Graco AAA portable unit is the best off both worlds.  They will spray latex if you have to (ugh) and thin coatings with great control and little overspray.  And it's not terribly heavy. 

I have a 4 stage 8 psi turbine and gun by Capspray that I am not a fan of.  I also had  aCapspray Aircoat (works great) which I just sold because my finish work is now all done in my shop. I have a 60 gallon compressor that runs my CA feline HVLP gun with separate fluid and air regulator on the cup as well as a 2.5g pot.  I use this setup for clear solvents only.  My favorite is the Kremlin Airmix.  What a pleasure to use. They make a portable stand model that can be ran with a small compressor as I think it only requires 2 CFM at 40.  Those may not be therightnumbers but I know it takes very little air.  That's my 2 cents worth but a pretty $$ set up and I'm not sure what your budget is. 

 

[tjbnwi]

Have you considered an air assisted airless?  I much prefer this to a pot and gun (or turbine) and I have all three.  The portable compressor/gun set up is expensive IMO and not the best option for more reasons than that.  The turbine lacks control of the fluid AND the air unless someone makes something I'm unaware. Maybe they do. To me the Kremlin EOS or Graco AAA portable unit is the best off both worlds.  They will spray latex if you have to (ugh) and thin coatings with great control and little overspray.  And it's not terribly heavy. 

I have a 4 stage 8 psi turbine and gun by Capspray that I am not a fan of.  I also had  aCapspray Aircoat (works great) which I just sold because my finish work is now all done in my shop. I have a 60 gallon compressor that runs my CA feline HVLP gun with separate fluid and air regulator on the cup as well as a 2.5g pot.  I use this setup for clear solvents only.  My favorite is the Kremlin Airmix.  What a pleasure to use. They make a portable stand model that can be ran with a small compressor as I think it only requires 2 CFM at 40.  Those may not be therightnumbers but I know it takes very little air.  That's my 2 cents worth but a pretty $$ set up and I'm not sure what your budget is.

My Fuji guns are completely adjustable for air/fan and fluid. I'm not a fan of cap spray guns either.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

If you have any recommendations on a specific compressor that would be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately portable 20amp/120 volt compressors won't give you enough CFM. Only a gasoline  driven compressors will give you enough cfm and not blow circuits or use 40 amp/240volt circut. They can be portable, on wheels but lifting one by yourself would be difficult.

Would it make more sense to find a different gun that requires less CFM?

I have been less than happy with lower CFM guns, but I like to move quickly when I am spraying so if you take it slow and steady it might work. For me low CFM guns that work on a portable compressor are good for touch ups and detail work not larger projects etc.

My vote is a turbine for field work. They work with pressure pots, you only need a very small compressor to run the pot.

I agree with Tom, my recommendation and one I use on site is a turbine with a pressure pot. You get the best of both worlds and you can spray almost anything set up properly. If you are used to a conventional system you will have to get used to the turbine system but other wise it works great.
Both Tom or I can help you through the set up. A  4 or 5 stage turbine with a 2 quart. or larger pot with a Senco 1010 compressor or similar with work well and shouldn't blow fuses in clients homes.
Both Tom and I have Fuji guns and turbines, and they are very good. The XPC guns are easier to convert to a pressure pot and Fuji has excellent customer service. Accuspray/3M guns are very good as are Apollo 7500 guns. Apollo sells a couple complete turbine/pressure pot/compressor system depending on your volume needs.

These cabinets (below) and panels were all sprayed on site with an Fuji 4 stage turbine and a pressure pot with a small Senco compressor.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Pnw painter]

Tim, I've only used an HVLP many years ago and I've never used a conventional gun or Air Assisted Airless.

It would be great to get your advice on which HVLP unit, gun, air compressor, pressure pot and any accessories I'd need. It sounds like you guys have really figured out a good setup based on some of your posts and pictures of finished projects.

Jeff, I've looked at the Air Assisted Airless such as the Merker, but I believe that you need a similar sized compressor to compared to the pressure pot and conventional gun setups that I've been looking at. If I'm wrong please let me know.

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[tiralie]

It would be great to get your advice on which HVLP unit, gun, air compressor, pressure pot and any accessories I'd need. It sounds like you guys have really figured out a good setup based on some of your posts and pictures of finished projects.

Tom has his set up slightly differently than I do but essentially the same base components. Here is mine:

Fuji XPC siphon gun - I replaced the hose connector with a gravity gun hose connector to get rid of the siphon cup nipple. Alternatively you can cap it or reverse the one way siphon gun tube to block air from exiting the hole.
Fuji Q4 4 stage turbine. I would buy the 5 stage today.
Full range of needles and cap sets.
Senco 1010 compressor
CA Technologies 2 Quart Bandit pressure pot with liners
10ft or 12ft fluid line. I have a shorter fluid line but I use the longer one the most.
25' Flexzilla Pneumatic Hose

The process is pretty easy.
I put a liner in the pressure pot, strain paint into it. Close the pressure pot up, tighten the nut.
One end of the fluid line gets connected to the pressure pot and the other end gets connected to the gun where the siphon cup was. The threads are the same.
The Turbine connects to the gun in the traditional way.
The compressor connects to the pressure pot. Set your pressure using the pressure pot valves.
Turn on your turbine, and you are ready to go.

Tim

 

[wptski]

Tom has his set up slightly differently than I do but essentially the same base components. Here is mine:

Fuji XPC siphon gun - I replaced the hose connector with a gravity gun hose connector to get rid of the siphon cup nipple. Alternatively you can cap it or reverse the one way siphon gun tube to block air from exiting the hole.
Fuji Q4 4 stage turbine. I would buy the 5 stage today.
Full range of needles and cap sets.
Senco 1010 compressor
CA Technologies 2 Quart Bandit pressure pot with liners
10ft or 12ft fluid line. I have a shorter fluid line but I use the longer one the most.
25' Flexzilla Pneumatic Hose

The process is pretty easy.
I put a liner in the pressure pot, strain paint into it. Close the pressure pot up, tighten the nut.
One end of the fluid line gets connected to the pressure pot and the other end gets connected to the gun where the siphon cup was. The threads are the same.
The Turbine connects to the gun in the traditional way.
The compressor connects to the pressure pot. Set your pressure using the pressure pot valves.
Turn on your turbine, and you are ready to go.

Tim

Tom has a Rolair JC10 which he states cycles about every four minutes, how often does the Senco 1010 cycle being smaller in several way?

 

[tiralie]

Tom has a Rolair JC10 which he states cycles about every four minutes, how often does the Senco 1010 cycle being smaller in several way?

Too many variables to compare, if you are spraying large projects or continuously it cycles more often, what pressure you are spraying at, if you use a 2 gallon vs a 2 quart you have a larger volume to pressurize as the coating is used etc. etc. etc.

Almost any compressor would work as you really are only trying to maintain 10-15 lbs pressure in the tank for short periods of time. The duty cycle is short.

My Senco cycles about as much when I am spraying 4'x4' panels with Kem aqua as when I use a pin nailer. Most of the time I can't hear it as it is behind my filter wall.
tim

 

[tjbnwi]

Shot on site using a Q4, no pot. KA+ pigmented.

I have a 2.5 gallon Qual Craft pot.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

Shot on site using a Q4, no pot. KA+ pigmented.

I have a 2.5 gallon Qual Craft pot.

Tom

Looks great. That KA+ sprays really nicely with the Q4. I just don't like having a cup in the way.
Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

Shot on site using a Q4, no pot. KA+ pigmented.

I have a 2.5 gallon Qual Craft pot.

Tom

Looks great. That KA+ sprays really nicely with the Q4. I just don't like having a cup in the way.
Tim

Wasn't a large enough part of this job to set up the pot and compressor.

I do need to get a smaller pot.

Tom

 

[wptski]

Wasn't a large enough part of this job to set up the pot and compressor.

I do need to get a smaller pot.

Tom

Did you use your bottom fed Fuji or what and how much product was used?

 

[tjbnwi]

Wasn't a large enough part of this job to set up the pot and compressor.

I do need to get a smaller pot.

Tom

Did you use your bottom fed Fuji or what and how much product was used?

T-70.

Don't recall exactly. Best guess would be a quart of each product.

That phase of the job total was 45 gallons (25 Surfacer-20 top coat). A few areas had to be done on site. The vast majority was done in the shop.

Finished phase four of the job in August which was 30-35-20-10-2---3/4.

Tom

 

[Pnw painter]

Tim and Tom, I specifically wanted to thank you, as well everyone else for all there advice.

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[tiralie]

Tim and Tom, I specifically wanted to thank you, as well everyone else for all there advice.

You're welcome. Please let us know how it's going and if you any questions. If we don't know the answer I am sure someone else will.
Tim