Contemplating selling table saw to fund lust for black & green- will I be sorry?

J

jrs

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
64
Hi all-

long time lurker, infrequent poster (still don't have any actual festool TOOLS, just a few systainers)

I am contemplating selling my jet table saw to (paritally) fund lust for black & green.

Some background- I am (currently) a hobbyist.  Stuff for the house, lots of trim, some built-in cabinets (painted), that sort of thing.  I have always wanted to venture in to more "furniture" pieces, and some friends have expressed interest in me doing some of the same for them.  I didn't start out like most woodworkers- my first project was a 15' x 8' wall of built-in cabinets, about 6 years ago.  I never did the requisite skill-building shop projects, so in some areas I am truly lacking.

I currently have a nice table saw, 18" band saw, and a planer (note that, to date, I haven't done anything with rough-sawn wood, and don't know how to use nor tune a jointer).  Of course, various sanders & routers.  Sheet goods are broken down with a craftsman circ saw.

My current shop is in our garage, and there isn't much fun trying to get to work out there.  It is a decent size garage, the problem is all the stuff that is already in it.

We have a three car garage, with one single bay door and a double bay door.  A note as to the size -- the garage is barely deep enough to let the car in.  Of the three sections, one is completely full with storage (man, I miss the old basement!), so down to two.  My wife's requirement is that she be able to have her car in the garage at the end of the day (go figure), which doesn't leave much room for anything in a permanent place. 

What it comes down to is this-- the way the shop currently is, doing anything out there is like a big-iron game of musical chairs.  Top this all off with the fact that, given the mixed-use nature of our garage, I don't even have an assembly table.  The transition from Shop --> Garage takes at least an hour, when you throw in cleanup and storage.  I only get time here and there to be out there, so that often ends up being a third of my time.  I figure that using Festool's system, that cleanup time will drop considerably as well-- worth the trade off in making some operations more difficult (but probably safer).  I have a dozen or so mockups of the garage in various configurations, but nothing seems workable.

I am thinking that, if I get a couple MFTs, along with suitable rails & likely the parallel guide, that I will be able to replace most of the functionality that I currently ever use the TS for.  Throw in a router and a couple of plywood bits, and I think I am set.  The MFTs will help with the assembly table dilemma, as well as workbench space.

My near-term list of items is:
  • TS 55 or 75 + the blade kit
  • MFT/3 (a couple)
  • Kapex
  • CT33+boom arm kit
  • Various Clamps, connectors, etc
  • Domino Set
  • OF 1400 + guide rail
  • Parallel Guide Kit

(I was on the fence about the Domino, considering it against the Leigh FMT-- People seem to love both, but one thing that someone said was that if he can, he reaches for the domino first, and that hit home-- that is how I currently am w/ pocket screws)

Don't get me wrong- I really like my table saw.  I just don't think that I will miss it. 

Any thoughts?

Oh, I should also add that my TS has a router lift built-in, which I NEVER use, because it is such a pain to get to.  Ditching the saw would allow me to either put together a smaller stand-alone router table, or, more preferably, a small shaper that will accept router bits.

 
I have a somewhat similar situation but maybe a deeper garage.  I have a room that at one time was a sauna that now houses all my mechanical tools.  About 40" wide b6 7' long.  I have one wall to house everything along.  I have two mft1080's a small workbench and a Shopsmith along the wall.  All except the workbench are movable/casters.  I also have a Walko and Jawhorse.  I did use the Shopsmith for some quick cuts but since getting the Kapex that function is no longer needed.  This is really quick set up for me and everything can be rolled around to store when the 3rd car comes in.  I doubt you'll miss the TS with the TS55 and Kapex combination.  I also have the TS55, Kapex, vac, router, rotary sander, jigsaw, domino.  Especially with all the help from the guys on this board about different ways to set up for cutting you can become pretty mobile.
 
I should chime in here because I think I have been loudest person on the "sell TS" idea. I did sell my Unisaw about 7 months ago to gain the floor space and to prove that you could do anything with the Festool Guide Rail and plunge saw combination.
  I will admit there have been times when I wish I had it back. But I have found a way to duplicate every task that a table saw would do.

Here is the Festool submenu on my website...it needs some updating but there are about 100 entries there.  http://www.woodshopdemos.com/men-fes.htm

Here is Beth cutting a panel -- the most obvious use of the Festool Plunge Saw and guide system.

euro-216.jpg


Here Elena is assembling cabinet sides using Domino PLUS pocket hole screws.

Cab-jo10.jpg


Here is the shop laid out for cabinetmaking and furniture making (don't be fooled by the panorama -- it is 2/3 of a double car garage.

index.2qz.jpg


 
jrs said:
I also meant to point out that I had looked, with great interest, through this thread: http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=4747.0
prior to posting.

suds, do you ever find that you wished you had gotten the ts75 over the 55?
Click to expand...

Hi there jrs, I'm glad that you liked my Festool Retrospective there. Well, I still don't have a TS and have yet to come across any tasks that I am plain unable to complete with my Festool setup and a few other tools.

I consider my shop pretty well equipped...and it occupies a decent sized one-car garage. From a personal stand point, I wouldn't miss a TS. However, for a new person getting the Festool system, there is a learning curve to consider. The learning curve is definitely not large. But, if you were going to miss your TS, it would probably be while you are learning the 'ins and outs' of the Festool system.

I keep meaning to take some pics of my shop to post here. But everytime that I am in there, I have projects to complete.

Regards
Rey
 
jrs said:
My near-term list of items is:
  • TS 55 or 75 + the blade kit
  • MFT/3 (a couple)
  • Kapex
  • CT33+boom arm kit
  • Various Clamps, connectors, etc
  • Domino Set
  • OF 1400 + guide rail
  • Parallel Guide Kit

(I was on the fence about the Domino, considering it against the Leigh FMT-- People seem to love both, but one thing that someone said was that if he can, he reaches for the domino first, and that hit home-- that is how I currently am w/ pocket screws)

Don't get me wrong- I really like my table saw.  I just don't think that I will miss it. 

Any thoughts?
  Ditching the saw would allow me to either put together a smaller stand-alone router table, or, more preferably, a small shaper that will accept router bits.
Click to expand...
thoughts
for me the CT33 is just too big and as I use a cyclone the CT 22 is equally good and in your situation you may find the same. I really like the cyclone and recommend you to think about it. You will be making a high volume of sawdust.
I also find the TS55 is easily big enough and, by the end of the day, heavy enough.
The Domino was my first Festool and if I had to start again it would be high on my list.
The Parallel Guide Kit is very good.
I can't comment on either the Kapex or MFT for you as the Kapex did not give me value for money and the MFT  was not stable enough

A couple of other items not on your list; I find that the MFS is excellent with the OF1400 and the ETS 150 (I have a Rotex 150) is a joy to use.

One point is that I do have a TS BUT the top is very smal. It's smaller than almost all but a US table-top TS and I would not gice it up. But with the latest  offering that puts a TS55 into an MFT you can get round that problem.
 
While I haven't sold my tablesaw, it is generally relegated to collecting dust.  If it was in the way, it would be gone.  

I find that a well-tuned bandsaw, with a fence and carbide blade, will fill the vast majority of the holes in the Festool system.  

I am in the process of planning my next shop, and have some serious space restrictions.  In addition to my Festool collection, I will probably only have a 12" Jointer/Planer combo, bandsaw, and drum sander.  
 
JeromeM said:
thoughts
for me the CT33 is just too big and as I use a cyclone the CT 22 is equally good and in your situation you may find the same. I really like the cyclone and recommend you to think about it. You will be making a high volume of sawdust.
I also find the TS55 is easily big enough and, by the end of the day, heavy enough.
The Domino was my first Festool and if I had to start again it would be high on my list.
The Parallel Guide Kit is very good.
I can't comment on either the Kapex or MFT for you as the Kapex did not give me value for money and the MFT  was not stable enough

A couple of other items not on your list; I find that the MFS is excellent with the OF1400 and the ETS 150 (I have a Rotex 150) is a joy to use.

One point is that I do have a TS BUT the top is very smal. It's smaller than almost all but a US table-top TS and I would not gice it up. But with the latest  offering that puts a TS55 into an MFT you can get round that problem.
Click to expand...

Oh, all that I posted was my "near term" list  ;)  I can't scare the wife all at once!  The MFS looks very nice, as does the hole drilling set.

What is this offering you are talking about that puts the TS55 in the MFT?

I have a jet dust collector (the 1.5 hp one, upgraded with a canister).  I will look at the 22 vs the 33 tho, I didn't realize that it was actually "bigger"
 
jrs said:
Hi all-

long time lurker, infrequent poster (still don't have any actual festool TOOLS, just a few systainers)

I am contemplating selling my jet table saw to (paritally) fund lust for black & green.

Some background- I am (currently) a hobbyist.  Stuff for the house, lots of trim, some built-in cabinets (painted), that sort of thing.  I have always wanted to venture in to more "furniture" pieces, and some friends have expressed interest in me doing some of the same for them.  I didn't start out like most woodworkers- my first project was a 15' x 8' wall of built-in cabinets, about 6 years ago.  I never did the requisite skill-building shop projects, so in some areas I am truly lacking.

I currently have a nice table saw, 18" band saw, and a planer (note that, to date, I haven't done anything with rough-sawn wood, and don't know how to use nor tune a jointer).  Of course, various sanders & routers.  Sheet goods are broken down with a craftsman circ saw.

My current shop is in our garage, and there isn't much fun trying to get to work out there.  It is a decent size garage, the problem is all the stuff that is already in it.

We have a three car garage, with one single bay door and a double bay door.  A note as to the size -- the garage is barely deep enough to let the car in.  Of the three sections, one is completely full with storage (man, I miss the old basement!), so down to two.  My wife's requirement is that she be able to have her car in the garage at the end of the day (go figure), which doesn't leave much room for anything in a permanent place. 

What it comes down to is this-- the way the shop currently is, doing anything out there is like a big-iron game of musical chairs.  Top this all off with the fact that, given the mixed-use nature of our garage, I don't even have an assembly table.  The transition from Shop --> Garage takes at least an hour, when you throw in cleanup and storage.  I only get time here and there to be out there, so that often ends up being a third of my time.  I figure that using Festool's system, that cleanup time will drop considerably as well-- worth the trade off in making some operations more difficult (but probably safer).  I have a dozen or so mockups of the garage in various configurations, but nothing seems workable.

I am thinking that, if I get a couple MFTs, along with suitable rails & likely the parallel guide, that I will be able to replace most of the functionality that I currently ever use the TS for.  Throw in a router and a couple of plywood bits, and I think I am set.  The MFTs will help with the assembly table dilemma, as well as workbench space.

My near-term list of items is:
  • TS 55 or 75 + the blade kit
  • MFT/3 (a couple)
  • Kapex
  • CT33+boom arm kit
  • Various Clamps, connectors, etc
  • Domino Set
  • OF 1400 + guide rail
  • Parallel Guide Kit

(I was on the fence about the Domino, considering it against the Leigh FMT-- People seem to love both, but one thing that someone said was that if he can, he reaches for the domino first, and that hit home-- that is how I currently am w/ pocket screws)

Don't get me wrong- I really like my table saw.  I just don't think that I will miss it. 

Any thoughts?

Oh, I should also add that my TS has a router lift built-in, which I NEVER use, because it is such a pain to get to.  Ditching the saw would allow me to either put together a smaller stand-alone router table, or, more preferably, a small shaper that will accept router bits.
Click to expand...

I'd hang on to the TS & BS.  I have the Kapex & domino and of1400 and ct33e and love the green.  I do not have the TS55 or 75.  While those are nice there are just to many times that the TS is the tool just from raw power size of my table (50+" cut with 7' rails).  Not to mention how much I use my Incra 1000se to cut small stuff very accurately.  I would not want to attempt with the CS. Thats just me. 
 
I second what bones said.  Keep the TS.  Festools are made more for portability like for a tradesman, a table saw is just so damn quick to set up.
 
I wouldn't part with my table saw. It is really handy, especially with the crosscut sled and dado stack.

The TS-75 is almost always used when I have to work with sheet goods.

Charles
 
Aside from the package deals you get when buying a tool and Dust Extractor and/or a tool bought with the MFT...

When you're buying multiple clamps also consider the Clamp Set. You get $25 off a set of the most popular (and useful) clamps.

Tom
 
God, I wish I had "only a three car garage". I do about the same as you do, just some hobby woodworking and DIY. My workspace is a shed that's about 6x9 feet, in which are my tools, three bicycles, a fridge, some garden chairs and my two-year-old daughter's toy trike. My wood supply is also in there, on an attic of about 6x4 feet, under a 45 degree sloping roof. Yes, it's full.

Most woodworking I do is outside (thankfully the Basis system is very portable) or inside the house. Perhaps you need to reorganise your garage a bit more thoroughly. For a hobby, you don't need enough room to swing 8x4 sheets around.

Frans
 
Frans said:
God, I wish I had "only a three car garage". I do about the same as you do, just some hobby woodworking and DIY. My workspace is a shed that's about 6x9 feet, in which are my tools, three bicycles, a fridge, some garden chairs and my two-year-old daughter's toy trike. My wood supply is also in there, on an attic of about 6x4 feet, under a 45 degree sloping roof. Yes, it's full.
Click to expand...

Yes, point taken.  ;D

What I was trying to say is that effectively, I have access to a single car garage with the ability to expand to 2 when necessary.  Put my dogs in there and it is full!

Frans said:
Most woodworking I do is outside (thankfully the Basis system is very portable) or inside the house. Perhaps you need to reorganise your garage a bit more thoroughly. For a hobby, you don't need enough room to swing 8x4 sheets around.

Frans
Click to expand...

Since most of the things that I have been making as a hobby start out as 4x8 sheets, I do ;)

What is this basis system of which you speak?

 
Since you mention that you'd like to move into furniture building, I'd keep the table saw.  If you only ever plan on cabinets using sheet goods, then get rid of it.  But, once you're dealing with 8/4 to 12/4 lumber making tapered/curved legs, I much prefer the table saw/band saw.  I'm sure it can be done with the Festool system and some ingenuity, but ....  Plus, sometimes the best way to make jigs is a table saw.

Jay
 
That is a good point. 

I do have a nice bandsaw.  I am trying to work on a shop layout that would allow me to keep the TS, but not having much luck.
 
Don't get rid of the Table saw.  Based in what you are saying you will need it down the road.
I understand the reason to get rid of the TS, I am also a hobbyist working in a 2 car garage 18' by 18'.
If you want to be a box maker, yes you can survive with only festools, if you are a furniture maker(pro or hobby) it is better to keep it.

There are only a few furniture makers that don't have a Table saw than I am aware of it, one of them is Jerry Work and he makes wonderful pieces.  The caveat is he has a bit shop and he has a lot of space for his trade and he can connect many mft together to work.  

Try it first the 2 systems and decide by yourself.

;D
 
This topic comes up often and it always draws interest and comment.  I have been on the fence (pun intended) on this one for a while.  I have a nice Unisaw, but since I got the Festool goodies, the Unisaw has not been earning its keep.  On the other hand, it does set up quickly and doesn't need much TLC.  It also makes a great assembly table with a sheet of ply on top :D.

I agree about the FMT - I sold mine, never regretted it.

Think about getting a jointer.  With a jointer, planer and a bandsaw, you can use rough lumber (which is pretty much a have to if you are getting into furniture) and make furniture joinery quality cuts.

As for dadoes, I get better ones with a Festool router than with my TS.
 
Never get rid of the TS. It's versatility and ease of use is superior to any hand held saw.

The MFT only comes in handy when you need to take it to the job site.
 
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