Cord or cordless track saw?

[Cheese]

Here in the U.S., I will bet you more hobbyists own Festool than professionals.

I've been a professional photographer for 18 years and know that the high end digital backs (from Hasselblad and Phase one) are owned by more amateur/hobby photographers (wealthy mind you) than working professionals.

I believe you...I know a lot of guys in the trades and I personally only know 1 pro that has the complete Festool assortment. Most of the guys own NO Festools because they're thought to be too expensive. Of the guys I know that do own Festool, it's a lone sander, a vacuum or an older track saw.

That's funny about the Hasselblad and Phase One camera backs. [big grin]

 

[acer66]

Almost bought the Makita on acme but the additional 11% additional off is not valid on Makita and the rail and battery promo is good until the end of January so I have time to cool of.

 

[SS Teach]

I was under the impression that the whole point to Festool is your tools worked together in a system. A major component of that system is the dust extractor. With it you have a clean healthy work environment.  I went to Festools because they hooked up to the CT. Breathing in all that dust is not good for your lungs. Yes the bag will do a good job, not as good as a CT. Since you’re using a CT get the corded unit.

 

[acer66]

I was under the impression that the whole point to Festool is your tools worked together in a system. A major component of that system is the dust extractor. With it you have a clean healthy work environment.  I went to Festools because they hooked up to the CT. Breathing in all that dust is not good for your lungs. Yes the bag will do a good job, not as good as a CT. Since you’re using a CT get the corded unit.

Yes, I wish I have started way earlier paying attention to that issue.

I remember when I was learning to become a metal fabricator decades ago we had an old asbestos mat and every time we unfolded it the air was filled with particles.

Heck, even bakers can get a flour lung.

 

[Svar]

I was under the impression that the whole point to Festool is your tools worked together in a system. A major component of that system is the dust extractor. With it you have a clean healthy work environment.  I went to Festools because they hooked up to the CT.

I don't get this system approach hype. Any modern sander or router hooks up to any vac. Occasionally you need a $3 adapter or $15 shroud but that's about it. I have Festool and non Festool tools and vacs and they are all interchangable and work as a "system" regardless of the brand.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I don't get this system approach hype. Any modern sander or router hooks up to any vac. Occasionally you need a $3 adapter or $15 shroud but that's about it. I have Festool and non Festool tools and vacs and they are all interchangable and work as a "system" regardless of the brand.

It wasn't always that way.  Most other tool manufactures made little, or no attempt at dust collection.  You can largely thank Festool for bringing the other manufactures up to the dust collection standards we now have. 

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits,

Here in the U.S., I will bet you more hobbyists own Festool than professionals. Just a hunch. I've been a professional photographer for 18 years and know that the high end digital backs (from Hasselblad and Phase one) are owned by more amateur/hobby photographers (wealthy mind you) than working professionals. The U.S. is funny that way, too much disposable income.

Funny, I too was a photographer before I got into woodworking. I did shoot Hasselblad (the SWC) Mamiya 7 and Rollei for MF, Contax for 35mm.  I agree on your assessment.

Over here there are a lot of hobbyists using Festool too, but they are still definitely a minority in sales figures, not only per machine basis but Festool carpenters tend to collect gear like Pokemons (a bit dated reference, I know...).

Hobbyists are still a minority for sure over here. For every hobbyist that has five Festool machines there is probably 30 tradesmen having one or more of those machines so in relative terms that would mean 30 of each machine to a pro compared to one well geared hobbyist. Out of those machines probably a bunch of hobbyists own just one or two to help balance out the numbers a little.

That is pure guesstimates - I don't have numbers. But from talking to the three largest vendors on a regular basis I know that professionals are buying a whole lot more so even if it was ten of each machine it would still be a very high pro vs consumer rate of machines sold and registered.

You can probably find a vendor over here that would tell you they sell "a lot" to hobbyists but those are usually small scale vendors that sell only a few machines a week - or even a month - and have a limited assortment of Festool. I know one Paint store that mostly sells sanders to consumers and only a few to pro's. But they still only shift maybe a unit or three a week. The pro's that have them still shop Paint a couple of times a week but only buy a machine every other year.

Some out of town DIY warehouses that sell Festool (not too many of them) probably sell more to consumers than pro's as their customers are more DIY oriented. These are still small scale vendors and combined they sell less than any of the top three, and the top three don't cater to consumers - most places require a registered account.

I don't know how it is in the US. 

All that said there are heaps of tradesmen that still don't know much about Festool though I feel that over the last fifteen years it has changed dramatically and Festool is more or less a brand "like any other" over here. (!) Even six or seven years ago Festool was considered "tool snobbery" but today they are a high volume "regular" brand on the market.

Five years ago I "peaked" with more Festool gear than I could put down on paper from memory. Last couple of years I have been streamlining my setup and do more in the workshop so I am literally down to almost half of what I used to have. Or at least two thirds. But hey, who's countin'? [big grin]

I have more gear than listed in the profile - I just suck at updating my profile.

EDIT: when I was down-sizing my set up I sold two thirds of the gear to hobbyists and one third to colleagues/pro's over the last couple of years. I have also bought some second hand Festool gear and they were all from hobbyists that had hardly used them but warranty had just expired. 

 

[Bob D.]

I don't get this system approach hype. Any modern sander or router hooks up to any vac. Occasionally you need a $3 adapter or $15 shroud but that's about it. I have Festool and non Festool tools and vacs and they are all interchangable and work as a "system" regardless of the brand.

It wasn't always that way.  Most other tool manufactures made little, or no attempt at dust collection.  You can largely thank Festool for bringing the other manufactures up to the dust collection standards we now have.

I would add that health and safety regulations probably had a hand in improvements in dust control on jobsites which of course spilled over into the hobby/DIY domains. There are not too many, if any, companies that do something out of the goodness of their hearts. There is usually some connection to increased profits, be it more sales or reduced production costs, or even less liability from injury lawsuits. Doesn't make it bad, just the nature of the beast.

No one cared about asbestos until the courts started ruling in favor of those with asbestosis. OSHA has been trying to get regulations concerning silica on the books for 50 years, and finally did so this year. Lead in brass plumbing fixtures and in solder and paint was recognized and removed years ago. But none of that happened until the laws and regulations changed. The foundries making those brass faucets didn't remove the lead until the HAD to. Companies like Hilti and others didn't add dust control until the new silica regulations went into effect. Now Hilti had hollow bits that extract the dust at the point of contact of the bit. The dust is drawn up through the bit and into a HEPA vac. Works great and saves time and less mess. A winner all around, but it didn't happen until the silica regulations changed. But, it would have been a time saver for the end user regardless of the silica issue. Not having to clean that dust out of anchor bolt holes would be a time saver and depending on the environment you're working in an absolute need. Having that capability engineered into the tool is fantastic. I wish they had come out with it 20 years ago because it is something could have been done with available technology of 20 years ago.

As usual I have strayed WOT but its to make a point. Following the money usually yields the most plausible answer.

 

[Holmz]

I was under the impression that the whole point to Festool is your tools worked together in a system. A major component of that system is the dust extractor. With it you have a clean healthy work environment.  I went to Festools because they hooked up to the CT. Breathing in all that dust is not good for your lungs. Yes the bag will do a good job, not as good as a CT. Since you’re using a CT get the corded unit.

Maybe. A decade ago or two... but the fear mongering marketing generally puts me off.

All my tools hook up to a CT26, Mafell, Lamello, the worst are my oval shaped Festools.
And they all would work with a starmix, Bosch or any other vacuum.

The old Festool rebadged Nilfisk, the new Festool vacuums, and every other vacuum hoovers it up he same... It is not magic, they are have the same benefits to health.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I would add that health and safety regulations probably had a hand in improvements in dust control on jobsites which of course spilled over into the hobby/DIY domains. There are not too many, if any, companies that do something out of the goodness of their hearts. There is usually some connection to increased profits, be it more sales or reduced production costs, or even less liability from injury lawsuits. Doesn't make it bad, just the nature of the beast....

It was Festool that brought the idea of dust collection as a main design feature to the mainstream.  Once the idea took hold in the public other manufactures had to follow or risk losing sales, or possibly opening themselves up to liability.  We agree, money is the motivation, but my point was that Festool lead the way, just as they did with connecting tool boxes, removable drill chucks and brushless motors for cordless tools.  Festool may not have been the first, or only ones with this things but they brought them to the forefront.     

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I do agree that Festool pioneered the (striving towards) dust free work environment back in the days.

It's been a few years now where I think all the big names are on board for that - with varying success perhaps. So it is no longer a Festool "specialty" in the sense that it is unique to Festool. I think the last couple of years have seen the market for dust control in tools has really grown and in a sense matured.

Seems like most "players" now offer a hammer drill with an onboard dust extractor as an option in the line up. Except Festool, actually.

 

 

[Jozsef Kozma]

Unfortunelly here in Connecticut on 50% of jobsites
they still cal you names ( snob, gentlemen carpenter, Moran )
if you use an HKC with track and bag or an HK with vacuum
during framing 
I just laugh when they are cleaning up after a wormdrive
It is useless to say anything , health ,time and money  saved
But to be cordless without a vacuum makes it really so much
More fun