Cost of use comparison of CT vacuum sizes

[JonathanJung]

Somewhere I remember seeing a breakdown of the different CT extractor sizes, their relative capacities, cost of bags, and how many bags have to be used in order to justify the next larger CT size. Anyone able to pull this up? Search didn't work for me.

I like my Midi's alright but would consider larger capacity if it means savings over time in bags. It's possible for me to go through 1-2 Midi bags a week.

 

[usernumber1]

I haven't seen that but it would seem a bit rigid today considering you can use a cyclone and not use your bag at all. Even when working on site, with the festool solution

 

[guybo]

Hi, my neighbor uses theses they are 1/2 price. I bought a reusable for 36ac It has saved me 6 bags so far. They make one for the midi as well. Still have to dump a cyclone.

 

[jeh]

Somewhere I remember seeing a breakdown of the different CT extractor sizes, their relative capacities, cost of bags, and how many bags have to be used in order to justify the next larger CT size. Anyone able to pull this up? Search didn't work for me.

I like my Midi's alright but would consider larger capacity if it means savings over time in bags. It's possible for me to go through 1-2 Midi bags a week.

Buy one of the reusable bags. So much better than the paper ones and it is a one-time cost.

 

[ChuckM]

Not too long ago....
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/general-friendly-chat/best-$100-or-so-spent-on-festool-or-other/msg669458/#msg669458

 

[mino]

I did this some time ago when getting my CTM 36.

First thing to remember is that the CT26/36/48 bags are of a slightly higher "grade" than the CT15 bags. This both allows them to last longer /till they are filled up in CT 48/ AND makes them more expensive.

This also allows to "reuse" the CT26/36/48 series bags a couple times - which some are doing. You can forget reusing the CT15/Mini/Midi bags though.

Purely from a cost perspective, the cheapest is the CT15 as the bags are cheaper than CT26 and close /per-volume/ to the CT36 bags.

The CT-VA throws the spinner into all of this and then there are the reusable bags.

I were to rate this (discounting a cyclone where a CT26/Mini are a better fit than a CT48/Midi/CT15) purely on bag cost, it would end up with something along:

CT48 > CT36 = CT15 = Midi > CT26 > Mini

With vac costs into consideration:
CT48 > CT15 > Midi > CT36 > CT26 > Mini

With CT-VA:
CT26 > CT36 > CT48
... / CT15 > Midi > Mini / *the CT26/36/48 series bags are a better fit for CT-VA as they are better so hadle the post-cyclon micro-dust better

With reusable bags:
CT15 > Midi > Mini > CT26 > CT36 > CT48

Long story short:
With a cyclone (CT-VA or better), you want CT26.
With reusable bags, you want CT15 (static use) or CT-Mini (mobile use) or CT Midi (general shop use)
With re-using "normal" bags you want CT26.

For best air quality - aka no cyclone, no reusable bags and no "normal" bag re-use, you want the CT15 for static use or CT36 for general use as the incremental cost for CT36 over CT26 is small and the bags are almost the same price hence a better value.

/end spam

 

[eschumac]

I can run without any bags with my CT36 AC.

 

[ChuckM]

Mino,

Why can't CT15 bags be reused? I've done that and resealed the small opening with duct tape. Is there some good health reason that I should not do that?

 

[peter halle]

Buy the extractor that fits your size availability and also your portability needs.  If you are on the route to see if the consumable costs, and the ........, fit into a parameter, then frankly I hope you don't notice the price of the other consumables for the Festool items such as the saw blades, sandpaper, etc.

I realize that this might be sounding harsh and that is certainly NOT my intention.  But when it comes to the Festool lineup of products, price is just what it is.  What value those products have to each individual is totally separate and is immeasurable on a global scale.

Peter

 

[flair woodworks]

Hey Jonathan,

While not exactly what you're looking for (e.g. no analysis of bags), we created a comparison chart of dust extractors earlier this year.https://www.ultimatetools.ca/blogs/news/spotlight-on-dust-extractors

 

[ChuckM]

Hey Jonathan,

While not exactly what you're looking for (e.g. no analysis of bags), we created a comparison chart of dust extractors earlier this year.https://www.ultimatetools.ca/blogs/news/spotlight-on-dust-extractors
Snip.

[thumbs up] [thanks]

I find the blower port of the CT15 very handy at the bench when I don't want to fire up the compressor. connect the hose, etc.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Buy the extractor that fits your size availability and also your portability needs.  If you are on the route to see if the consumable costs, and the ........, fit into a parameter, then frankly I hope you don't notice the price of the other consumables for the Festool items such as the saw blades, sandpaper, etc.

I realize that this might be sounding harsh and that is certainly NOT my intention.  But when it comes to the Festool lineup of products, price is just what it is.  What value those products have to each individual is totally separate and is immeasurable on a global scale.

Peter

This ^^^^^^

The only truly cost-conscious Festool decisions I ever made started when I received a commission to build 4 large oak external doors with frames, plus 16 casement windows, also with frames. I’d just bought a CT26, but the initial level of machining meant that I was filling 3 bags a day, resorting to cutting off the ends, emptying them, and then resealing the open ends using bulldog clips. So I immediately ordered a CT-VA. That pretty much made replacement bag cost irrelevant. I’ve never measured or calculated it, but I’m pretty sure it’s already paid for itself in bag savings. I also don’t use any OEM blades, bits or cutters since I found the Trend/Freud/Erbauer/Wera ones to be of identical quality at somewhere between half and  a quarter of the price.

 

[jeh]

The only truly cost-conscious Festool decisions I ever made started when I received a commission to build 4 large oak external doors with frames, plus 16 casement windows, also with frames. I’d just bought a CT26, but the initial level of machining meant that I was filling 3 bags a day, resorting to cutting off the ends, emptying them, and then resealing the open ends using bulldog clips. So I immediately ordered a CT-VA. That pretty much made replacement bag cost irrelevant. I’ve never measured or calculated it, but I’m pretty sure it’s already paid for itself in bag savings. I also don’t use any OEM blades, bits or cutters since I found the Trend/Freud/Erbauer/Wera ones to be of identical quality at somewhere between half and  a quarter of the price.

Don't rule out resharpening. I use Leitz Tooling for sharpening and they make them good as knew. Minimum order is $100, but that covers a few blades depending on size. I also sent Milwaukee self-feed bits for sharpening as they are too expensive to just throw away and buy new every time. Cost is around 1/2 of new bit. I have not seen any difference in time before needing to be resharpened versus right of the box to the first sharpening.

 

[mino]

Mino,

Why can't CT15 bags be reused? I've done that and resealed the small opening with duct tape. Is there some good health reason that I should not do that?

They can be, just that they are "weaker" than the CT26 series bags.
For non-exotic wood work where there are not that many micro-particles it will probably be fine. But when I sand paint and other such stuff ... I would simply not buy a Mini/Midi/CT15 _with_a_vision_ to save bucks by reusing the bags. Sure, when a bag is clean outside and so is the microfilter, no problem. But would not count on that being the case when choosing a vac to buy.

OTOH with the CT26 I do see it as a viable path thanks to how over-built those bags are.
To begin, the CT26 bags material is certified for CT48 use. That means, out of the box, they are designed for 2x the dust volume they see when in a CT26 bin. And more. While the CT15 bags are designed for 15-liter dust volume - there are no bigger vacs in the series. This shows both on price and on performance/durability.

 

[mino]

Hey Jonathan,

While not exactly what you're looking for (e.g. no analysis of bags), we created a comparison chart of dust extractors earlier this year.https://www.ultimatetools.ca/blogs/news/spotlight-on-dust-extractors

In that table you miss one critical aspect - the Mirka /and other OEM Nilfisk vacs/ does not have an equivalent of the Festool SelfClean bags the CT26/36/48 series uses. Effectively the vac can compete with the CT Mini/Midi series while the CT26+ series are out of its league just due to the bag quality difference.

This aspect is hard to quantify really, but it is THE differentiating feature for the CT 26+ series as those bags is what allows the vacs to NOT have a manual clean lever - it is not needed - AND to have very long-lasting microfilters - AND to produce consistent air volume levels even when bag-almost-full compared to most other vendors in the class.

 

[flair woodworks]

Hey Jonathan,

While not exactly what you're looking for (e.g. no analysis of bags), we created a comparison chart of dust extractors earlier this year.https://www.ultimatetools.ca/blogs/news/spotlight-on-dust-extractors

In that table you miss one critical aspect - the Mirka /and other OEM Nilfisk vacs/ does not have an equivalent of the Festool SelfClean bags the CT26/36/48 series uses. Effectively the vac can compete with the CT Mini/Midi series while the CT26+ series are out of its league just due to the bag quality difference.

This aspect is hard to quantify really, but it is THE differentiating feature for the CT 26+ series as those bags is what allows the vacs to NOT have a manual clean lever - it is not needed - AND to have very long-lasting microfilters - AND to produce consistent air volume levels even when bag-almost-full compared to most other vendors in the class.

I don't even know how I would comprehensively describe that in a table.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
They can be, just that they are "weaker" than the CT26 series bags.
Snip.

Your further explanation is more reassuring as I deal with common local lumber, and reusing the CT bags once or twice wouldn't be an issue in my case. As the CT15 is mostly used for the DF500 & Pro5 Ltd, and I have a new box of (5) selfclean bags, with reuse, I don't think I need to worry about bags for at least 5 years.

 

[denovo]

I believe new CT 36 AC vacs now come with a HEPA filter (same as the CT 48 AC) instead of the 1 micron filter it originally was sold with.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=652]JimH2[/member] Good call - but I already do. I have around 20 TS55 blades, plus 25-30 others for various other saws. All are in a constant cycle of being used/being resharpened because they all get so much daily use. I’m in the UK and I use a company called LM Cutting Tools only 5 miles away. They’ll turn a box of 30 blades round in a few days and as you say, they come back as good as new. They charge 8 pennies per tooth, meaning that I can effectively get a new 96-tooth 12” blade for my DeWalt mitre saw for £7.68. Works for me. Also - my most heavily-used router bit is a half-inch 2-flute. A buddy in the trade recommended one made by Trend which has replaceable TCT cutter blades which can be swapped out in seconds. It was expensive to buy, but it’s saved me a fortune.

Best wishes.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=652]JimH2[/member] Good call - but I already do. I have around 20 TS55 blades, plus 25-30 others for various other saws. All are in a constant cycle of being used/being resharpened because they all get so much daily use. I’m in the UK and I use a company called LM Cutting Tools only 5 miles away. They’ll turn a box of 30 blades round in a few days and as you say, they come back as good as new. They charge 8 pennies per tooth, meaning that I can effectively get a new 96-tooth 12” blade for my DeWalt mitre saw for £7.68. Works for me. Also - my most heavily-used router bit is a half-inch 2-flute. A buddy in the trade recommended one made by Trend which has replaceable TCT cutter blades which can be swapped out in seconds. It was expensive to buy, but it’s saved me a fortune.

Best wishes.

Amana makes an entire series of insert-style bits too and they are far easier to get here in the states.
There are a few Trend items available, but mostly little layout tools. I had no idea how many things they actually make, until seeing a couple of Youtube channels that are based in the UK.
The main ones I use are the 3/4" diameter, 30mm cut length, both pattern and flush trim. I have the 50mm versions of them too, but don't need them nearly as often. They have saved me a lot of time and hassle over the years. The sharpening of standard brazed bits ruins their ability to cut flush ever again, inserts don't suffer that problem. Yes, the initial cost is higher, but in the long run, far more economical.....far.